Comparison between 100mg test Sub-Q and IM (with labwork)

[booku]

You can always try belly injections again and post up your labs Maybe it will work for you given your low BF levels.

Do you pinch then push the needle in? How quickly do you inject?

i don't pinch, and I do a 1/4 cc in about 30 seconds to 1 minute

[LT75]

Maybe it absorbs in fat like androgel . Directions are to use the back of the arms now instead of the belly. Less fat on the arms. Dr Crisler even said to use the forearms for better absorption. So fat does play a role in it. I am thinking about switching from IM to SQ. I am watching and reading what is going on here before I make my mind up..

[GFA]

Adding in Age and Weight/BF if you have it.

GFA - 210 lbs, 41 years old ~20-25% Bf?
Baseline 284 ng/dL (Total test)
SQ 366 ng/dL (Total test) 102.9 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly)
IM 792 ng/dL (Total test) 243.1 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly)
IM 923 ng/dL (Total test) 243.1 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 120mg (1x weekly)
Summary - IM 600% more effective than SQ for total test. During the SQ injections, my oily skin went away, strength decreased, lower libdo. Labs reflect my overall sense of well being.

badrad123 - 46 years old, ~22% BF
Base 195 (Total test)
SQ 375 (Total test) 80 mg test (40mg 2x a week)
IM ?
Summary - Most recent test of 375 TT seems to indicate badrad is not responsive to belly SQ injections.

clarkster
Base 175 (Total test)
SQ 505 (Total test) 100 mg test (50mg 2x a week) 250 ius hcg 3x a week
IM 781 200mg week
Summary - too many things changed but TT still seems low for hcg + 100mg test.

rhoag
Baseline 304
SQ 394 ng/dL (Total test) 50mg x2 SQ
IM ?

dhickey
Baseline ?
SQ 508 ng/dL (Total test) 60mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2
IM 1223 ng/dL (Total test) 100mg IM x2, 250 iu HCG SQ x2

lacy23
Baseline 284 ng/dL (Total test)
SQ 400 ng/dL (Total test) 13mg test ED SQ, 80 iu HCG ED SQ
IM 720 ng/dL (Total test) 65mg E5D IM, 200iu HCG 2 days before Test

Allaaro
Baseline 19.1 (Free test) range 31-94 range
SQ 56.5 (Free test) 150mg (3x50mg)
IM 121.1 (Free test) 200mg (2x100mg)
Summary - 30% increase in test yields 150% higher free test levels. Would like to see similar levels of test injected per week and total test. Your free test increases look similar to mine in terms of percentages.

Booku - 23 years old, ~10-15% BF
Baseline 70 ng/dL (Total test) 1.7 pg/mL range 9.3-26.5 pg/mL (free test)
SQ 920 (Total Test) 100mg (2x50mg)
IM ?
Summary - Responds well to SQ injections. Age, activity or BF levels play a role? Booku switched from belly to thigh injections.

Ratt
Baseline 256 ng/dL
SQ 450 ng/dL 100mg (2x50mg)
IM 750-900 ng/dL (120mg weekly, frequency unknown)
Summary - 300-450 ng/dL reduction using SQ.

38onTRT
Baseline ?
SQ 486 ng/dL 100mg (2x50mg) along with 500 iu HCG weekly and AI
IM ?
Summary - Unknown but @100mg test a week + hcg, test should be much higher, closer to double reported values. Switching back to IM and will report updated BW. Recommendation to keep the protocol the same with the exception of injection type (IM vs SQ).

Ryanmcd
Baseline ?
SQ - No data but quote "I felt like crap on SQ and went back to IM, no bloodwork to show but I know when I take naps again and dick is broke my test was low lol."
IM 750 ng/dL 100mg (1x100)

Rollingthunder
Baseline ?
SQ 9 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (50mgx2)
IM 24 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (1x100mg)
Summary - There was a huge drop in test switching to SQ, some other variables such as HCG added, AI dropped during SQ phase.

HRTStudent
Baseline ?
SQ - 120mg (3x40mg weekly) + AI
IM - 150mg (2x75mg weekly) + AI
Summary - Need values. Difficult to make a determination on efficacy. Different dosages, lab draw, AI, testosterone amounts. Says numbers are similar, appears to metabolize via SQ at a lower rate than many of the others.

Summary - It appears injecting into belly fat for people with higher BF% is ineffective for SQ. Additional testing is required. Of all the respondents, only one has seen positive results using SQ, booku. He is 23 with approximately 10-15% BF and injected into a low fat area of the body, thigh. Given his low BF levels, its possible the SQ injections were actually IM.

GFA is attempting SQ again into thigh only with 60mg test x2 a week (120mg a week total).

[badrad123]

Attached are my most recent blood levels. Thanks.

[badrad123]

Ya that sounds more accurate. Seems you are also not responding to to SQ injections in the belly. Try in the thigh see if that is any better.

Btw, your SQ test result is almost identical to mine. I was 366 TT but that was @100mg a week 1 injection. Labs take 3 days after injection.

Yea, I'm going to try in the thigh and then test again after 6 weeks. I'll keep the dose the same.

[Allaaro]

Appreciate all the work being done in this thread. I'm getting some new bloodwork this week on IM 190/week so I'll make up an update when get it.

[GFA]

Appreciate all the work being done in this thread. I'm getting some new bloodwork this week on IM 190/week so I'll make up an update when get it.

Hopefully we can get a few more people to try with SQ into low fat areas (delts, quads) and see if that makes the difference. This will be my last attempt at SQ. Really hope it works because a lifetime of IM is not that appealing.

[HRTstudent]

Hopefully we can get a few more people to try with SQ into low fat areas (delts, quads) and see if that makes the difference. This will be my last attempt at SQ. Really hope it works because a lifetime of IM is not that appealing.

If its any consolation there is an oral testosterone in clinical trials right now. If it goes quickly, it could be out in a few years.

[fm2002]

What I'm about to write about is NOT supported by BW's, but instead empirical evidence. Backed up by over 7 years of CLOSELY monitoring everything I take and when I take it.

Some may laugh, but IMO my penis is a great indicator of my Estrogen and/or Testosterone balance. If one or both are out of whack than my penis will tell me. I will also add acne as another indicator.

I was one that was very excited to hear that Dr. Crisler was getting good results with Sub Q testosterone injections. I for one cannot self administer IM injections. So I thought I would give it a try. For 1 month I self administered sub Q my Test E injections. The total amount was the same as when I was doing IM. I injected in my thighs and stomach fat. I also maintained the amount of Arimidex (.25mg every 3rd day).

After the 1st week I started to notice differences. Slight loss of strength in the gym. By week 2 I started to loose my libido. My erections were about 80%. Weeks 3 and 4 found severe acne and my erections even further diminished. Loss of strength in the gym of 10-15%. At this point I stopped Sub Q.

I write this now as I'm finally back to where I was before I started Sub Q. It's taken 4 weeks to accomplish this.

I realize that I didn't do BW's before during and after. I also think one could question maintaining the same amount of Arimidex after changing to Sub Q. That said I'm confident and convinced that sub Q for me is not the way to go.

[GFA]

Started my 2nd week of thigh SQ injections .3ml (60mg) x2 a week. So far dont notice any difference in libido. My next doc appointment is on the 12th of April, Ill ask for a script for LW again and report back my findings. Will wait till I have done at least 4 weeks of SQ before getting labs.

No HCG or ancillaries are being taken to keep the results as controlled as possible. The only difference is the frequency.

[junk2222yard]

It appears injecting into belly fat for people with higher BF% is ineffective for SQ. Additional testing is required. Of all the respondents, only one has seen positive results using SQ, booku.

I dunno if I should insert myself into this thread, because I only have SQ results, and I also only have done it with hCG and and AI. But if that doesn't disqualify me, I appear to be an exception to this.

Bodyfat 28% or so, injecting 60mg T into belly fat every 3 days (140mg/wk) with hCG 250iu the day before and .25mg Adex same day as Test injection was bringing me over the upper range in Total T and Free T. I actually have reduced my Test because of this to 56mg every 3 days (130mg/wk) but haven't got retested yet.

Anyhoo, I haven't read all 4 pages of this thread, but thought I would share my experience based on the statement I quoted.

[booku]

I dunno if I should insert myself into this thread, because I only have SQ results, and I also only have done it with hCG and and AI. But if that doesn't disqualify me, I appear to be an exception to this.

Bodyfat 28% or so, injecting 60mg T into belly fat every 3 days (140mg/wk) with hCG 250iu the day before and .25mg Adex same day as Test injection was bringing me over the upper range in Total T and Free T. I actually have reduced my Test because of this to 56mg every 3 days (130mg/wk) but haven't got retested yet.

Anyhoo, I haven't read all 4 pages of this thread, but thought I would share my experience based on the statement I quoted.

Yea, the reason we like to see results with testosterone only is because we don't know how much hcg and the test are EACH raising your testosterone level. But, if you have labs with hcg with IM versus hcg with SQ that is valid and we can compare test levels. Maybe you should get retested after the pharmacokinetics of the drug @ 130 mg/week SQ settle out. Then take 6-8 weeks of IM and see what the difference is, keeping all other variables the same. Then you know, for your body type and situation, what works best for YOU.

[qkcam]

GFA

Answer: I wanted to see what impact sub-q had on my RBCs and test levels, in addition sub-q is much easier than IM. I know from experience HCG is effective sub-q so I was hoping injecting test sub-q would give me similar results.

curious if this had an impact on the RBC ? i didn't see it listed.. thanks!

[GFA]

GFA

Answer: I wanted to see what impact sub-q had on my RBCs and test levels, in addition sub-q is much easier than IM. I know from experience HCG is effective sub-q so I was hoping injecting test sub-q would give me similar results.

curious if this had an impact on the RBC ? i didn't see it listed.. thanks!

I will post up results as time goes on. I did a TON of donations last year and now Im at the opposite end of the scale with a hemoglobin of 12.6 and hematocrit of 38.6. I dont plan on any more donations for awhile (my last was a double red) so if my next BW is positive using SQ, I will continue to use SQ and get my RBCs checked.

I actually started taking some iron pills to help bring my levels up a little. I was feeling the effects of too low RBC. My next doc appt is next week when I will get the script for LW and get my RBC checked. From there he will probably reschedule me to come in a month or 2 later for a checkup.

[GFA]

@junk, as booku stated, your results would not be accurate as you are taking other ancillaries + HCG . When I did HCG mono like 10 years ago that brought my TT from 300ish to 800. Just from HCG alone.

[GFA]

Quick follow up. Just saw hematologist and hemoglobin was 12.2. No donations for awhile.

I have been doing SQ injections 2x a week 60mg per injection (120mg week) into the thigh for the last month. No HCG , no AI. Just straight up test cyp. My libido has been good so far so Im expecting my labs to be better than the last time I tried SQ.

Next week I will be getting the following LW done.

Full CBC
E2 sensitive
Testosterone
Thyroid

I will post up labs when done.

[badrad123]

Looking forward to the results. Thanks!

[GFA]

Ok folks. Here is my 2nd round of SQ testing with 120mg test injected 2x a week (60mg per injection). This was done into the thigh. No HCG or AI. My RBCs still at bottom of reference range.

Testosterone , Total, Lc/Ms 638.0 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL
Testost., F+W Bound 229.7 40.0-250.0 ng/dL
Testost., % Free+Weakly Bound 36.0 9.0-46.0 %
Estradiol, Sensitive 13 3-70 pg/mL
Hemoglobin 12.6 12.6-17.7 g/dL
Hematocrit 40.2 37.5-51.0 %

GFA - 210 lbs, 41 years old ~20-25% Bf?
Baseline 284 ng/dL (Total test)
SQ 366 ng/dL (Total test) 102.9 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly) - Into Belly
IM 792 ng/dL (Total test) 243.1 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly)
IM 923 ng/dL (Total test) 366.7 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 120mg (1x weekly)
SQ 638 ng/dL (Total test) 229.7 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 120mg (2x60 weekly) - Into Thigh

So it appears injecting into low fat areas makes a big difference for the absorption of testosterone.

[Moparman]

I'd like to see the diff between once a week Im and 2x a week im

[rollingthunder]

Adding in Age and Weight/BF if you have it.

Rollingthunder

Baseline ?
SQ 9 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (50mgx2)
IM 24 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (1x100mg)
Summary - There was a huge drop in test switching to SQ, some other variables such as HCG added, AI dropped during SQ phase.

UPDATING HERE AS PER YOUR REQUEST: AGE 53,
weight 240, BF mid 20s

[GFA]

I'd like to see the diff between once a week Im and 2x a week im

Ya 2x a week IM and 1x a week SQ into thigh would be the other 2 tests I should do.

[GFA]

Adding in Age and Weight/BF if you have it.

GFA - 210 lbs, 41 years old ~20-25% Bf?
Baseline 284 ng/dL (Total test)
SQ 366 ng/dL (Total test) 102.9 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly) - Into Belly
IM 792 ng/dL (Total test) 243.1 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly)
IM 923 ng/dL (Total test) 366.7 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 120mg (1x weekly)
SQ 638 ng/dL (Total test) 229.7 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 120mg (2x60 weekly) - Into Thigh

badrad123 - 46 years old, ~22% BF
Base 195 (Total test)
SQ 375 (Total test) 80 mg test (40mg 2x a week)
IM ?
Summary - Most recent test of 375 TT seems to indicate badrad is not responsive to belly SQ injections.

clarkster
Base 175 (Total test)
SQ 505 (Total test) 100 mg test (50mg 2x a week) 250 ius hcg 3x a week
IM 781 200mg week
Summary - too many things changed but TT still seems low for hcg + 100mg test.

rhoag
Baseline 304
SQ 394 ng/dL (Total test) 50mg x2
SQ 852 ng/dL (Total test) 75mg x 2
SQ 493 ng/dL (Total test) 60mg x 2 + HCG + AI

dhickey
Baseline 243 ng/dL (Total test)
SERM 429 ng/dL (Total test) 20mg Tamoxifen ED.
IM 1223 ng/dL (Total test) 100mg IM x2, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 508 ng/dL (Total test) 60mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 745 ng/dL (Total test) 80mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2

lacy23
Baseline 284 ng/dL (Total test)
SQ 400 ng/dL (Total test) 13mg test ED SQ, 80 iu HCG ED SQ
IM 720 ng/dL (Total test) 65mg E5D IM, 200iu HCG 2 days before Test

Allaaro
Baseline 19.1 (Free test) range 31-94 range
SQ 56.5 (Free test) 150mg (3x50mg)
IM 121.1 (Free test) 200mg (2x100mg)
Summary - 30% increase in test yields 150% higher free test levels. Would like to see similar levels of test injected per week and total test. Your free test increases look similar to mine in terms of percentages.

Booku - 23 years old, ~10-15% BF
Baseline 70 ng/dL (Total test) 1.7 pg/mL range 9.3-26.5 pg/mL (free test)
SQ 920 (Total Test) 100mg (2x50mg)
IM ?
Summary - Responds well to SQ injections. Age, activity or BF levels play a role? Booku switched from belly to thigh injections.

Ratt
Baseline 256 ng/dL
SQ 450 ng/dL 100mg (2x50mg)
IM 750-900 ng/dL (120mg weekly, frequency unknown)
Summary - 300-450 ng/dL reduction using SQ.

38onTRT
Baseline ?
SQ 486 ng/dL 100mg (2x50mg) along with 500 iu HCG weekly and AI
IM ?
Summary - Unknown but @100mg test a week + hcg, test should be much higher, closer to double reported values. Switching back to IM and will report updated BW. Recommendation to keep the protocol the same with the exception of injection type (IM vs SQ).

Ryanmcd
Baseline ?
SQ - No data but quote "I felt like crap on SQ and went back to IM, no bloodwork to show but I know when I take naps again and dick is broke my test was low lol."
IM 750 ng/dL 100mg (1x100)

Rollingthunder -AGE 53, weight 240, BF mid 20s
Baseline ?
SQ 9 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (50mgx2)
IM 24 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (1x100mg)
Summary - There was a huge drop in test switching to SQ, some other variables such as HCG added, AI dropped during SQ phase.

HRTStudent
Baseline ?
SQ - 120mg (3x40mg weekly) + AI
IM - 150mg (2x75mg weekly) + AI
Summary - Need values. Difficult to make a determination on efficacy. Different dosages, lab draw, AI, testosterone amounts. Says numbers are similar, appears to metabolize via SQ at a lower rate than many of the others.

Summary - It appears injecting into belly fat for people with higher BF% is ineffective for SQ. 2nd round performed SQ into thigh only by GFA with better results. Additional testing is required.

[dhickey]

Some more info

dhickey
Baseline 243 ng/dL (Total test)
SERM 429 ng/dL (Total test) 20mg Tamoxifen ED.
IM 1223 ng/dL (Total test) 100mg IM x2, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 508 ng/dL (Total test) 60mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 745 ng/dL (Total test) 80mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2

I believe these were all between my x2 injections, so not a trough.

Because of my low SHBG and fast metabolism of T, I'm currently trying 30mg EOD, 125IU HCG EOD. Hopefully this also allows me to to use less adex while keeping E2 in check. I'll probably test again in a week.

[riotz0r]

Wow this is good information to have... I'm 28 with around 10% body fat and I start TRT in a week, I take it I should ask my doctor for IM injections?? Seems even for lower body fat the IM works a lot better....

[bethdoth]

I'm 52, 191 pounds, about 13% BF. I was on adrogel and started injections in December 2012. Baseline was 304 total test E2 19. I started just test CYP SubQ in my belly fat at 70mg every 3.5 days (Sun AM/Wed PM) first lab Wed AM 6 week mark. Test 394 no E2. Moved injections to subQ in my thighs increased test from 70mg to 75mg every 3.5 days (Sun AM/Wed PM). Did labs again on Wed AM test went to 852 and E2 shot up to 52. Lowered test to 60mg in thighs and added HCG and an AI . Labs at the 6 week mark again on Wed AM test dropped to 493 and E2 37.

For me SubQ in the thighs works. But I have never done IM.

[GFA]

Wow this is good information to have... I'm 28 with around 10% body fat and I start TRT in a week, I take it I should ask my doctor for IM injections?? Seems even for lower body fat the IM works a lot better....

IM is more reliable. SQ appears to be very low absorption in high BF areas.

I'm 52, 191 pounds, about 13% BF. I was on adrogel and started injections in December 2012. Baseline was 304 total test E2 19. I started just test CYP SubQ in my belly fat at 70mg every 3.5 days (Sun AM/Wed PM) first lab Wed AM 6 week mark. Test 394 no E2. Moved injections to subQ in my thighs increased test from 70mg to 75mg every 3.5 days (Sun AM/Wed PM). Did labs again on Wed AM test went to 852 and E2 shot up to 52. Lowered test to 60mg in thighs and added HCG and an AI . Labs at the 6 week mark again on Wed AM test dropped to 493 and E2 37.

For me SubQ in the thighs works. But I have never done IM.

60mg x 2 + HCG + AI and only 493? Seems pretty low. Try giving IM a shot, your test level will probably double and its more reliable. I switched back to IM for the time being.

Im working on different injection techniques to minimize pain. Last few injections have been pain free, I have been injecting much faster than I did in the past.

[GFA]

Adding in Age and Weight/BF if you have it.

GFA - 210 lbs, 41 years old ~20-25% Bf?
Baseline 284 ng/dL (Total test)
SQ 366 ng/dL (Total test) 102.9 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly) - Into Belly
IM 792 ng/dL (Total test) 243.1 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 100mg (1x100 weekly)
IM 923 ng/dL (Total test) 366.7 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 120mg (1x weekly)
SQ 638 ng/dL (Total test) 229.7 ng/dL range 40.0-250.0 (F+W Bound) 120mg (2x60 weekly) - Into Thigh

badrad123 - 46 years old, ~22% BF
Base 195 (Total test)
SQ 375 (Total test) 80 mg test (40mg 2x a week)
IM ?
Summary - Most recent test of 375 TT seems to indicate badrad is not responsive to belly SQ injections.

clarkster
Base 175 (Total test)
SQ 505 (Total test) 100 mg test (50mg 2x a week) 250 ius hcg 3x a week
IM 781 200mg week
Summary - too many things changed but TT still seems low for hcg + 100mg test.

rhoag
Baseline 304
SQ 394 ng/dL (Total test) 50mg x2
SQ 852 ng/dL (Total test) 75mg x 2
SQ 493 ng/dL (Total test) 60mg x 2 + HCG + AI

dhickey
Baseline 243 ng/dL (Total test)
SERM 429 ng/dL (Total test) 20mg Tamoxifen ED.
IM 1223 ng/dL (Total test) 100mg IM x2, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 508 ng/dL (Total test) 60mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 745 ng/dL (Total test) 80mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2

lacy23
Baseline 284 ng/dL (Total test)
SQ 400 ng/dL (Total test) 13mg test ED SQ, 80 iu HCG ED SQ
IM 720 ng/dL (Total test) 65mg E5D IM, 200iu HCG 2 days before Test

Allaaro
Baseline 19.1 (Free test) range 31-94 range
SQ 56.5 (Free test) 150mg (3x50mg)
IM 121.1 (Free test) 200mg (2x100mg)
Summary - 30% increase in test yields 150% higher free test levels. Would like to see similar levels of test injected per week and total test. Your free test increases look similar to mine in terms of percentages.

Booku - 23 years old, ~10-15% BF
Baseline 70 ng/dL (Total test) 1.7 pg/mL range 9.3-26.5 pg/mL (free test)
SQ 920 (Total Test) 100mg (2x50mg)
IM ?
Summary - Responds well to SQ injections. Age, activity or BF levels play a role? Booku switched from belly to thigh injections.

Ratt
Baseline 256 ng/dL
SQ 450 ng/dL 100mg (2x50mg)
IM 750-900 ng/dL (120mg weekly, frequency unknown)
Summary - 300-450 ng/dL reduction using SQ.

38onTRT
Baseline ?
SQ 486 ng/dL 100mg (2x50mg) along with 500 iu HCG weekly and AI
IM ?
Summary - Unknown but @100mg test a week + hcg, test should be much higher, closer to double reported values. Switching back to IM and will report updated BW. Recommendation to keep the protocol the same with the exception of injection type (IM vs SQ).

Ryanmcd
Baseline ?
SQ - No data but quote "I felt like crap on SQ and went back to IM, no bloodwork to show but I know when I take naps again and dick is broke my test was low lol."
IM 750 ng/dL 100mg (1x100)

Rollingthunder -AGE 53, weight 240, BF mid 20s
Baseline ?
SQ 9 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (50mgx2)
IM 24 (7.2-24.0) (free test) 100mg (1x100mg)
Summary - There was a huge drop in test switching to SQ, some other variables such as HCG added, AI dropped during SQ phase.

HRTStudent
Baseline ?
SQ - 120mg (3x40mg weekly) + AI
IM - 150mg (2x75mg weekly) + AI
Summary - Need values. Difficult to make a determination on efficacy. Different dosages, lab draw, AI, testosterone amounts. Says numbers are similar, appears to metabolize via SQ at a lower rate than many of the others.

Summary - It appears injecting into belly fat for people with higher BF% is ineffective for SQ. 2nd round performed SQ into thigh only by GFA with better results. SQ still not as effective or reliable as IM even when injecting into lower BF regions. Additional testing is required.

[kelkel]

Don't let this thread die GFA. Really great work.

[powerlifterty16]

Who teaches you guys how to do these injections? I fear if I ever did at home injections I wouldnt know how. Does the dr teach it?

[Ryanmcd]

Who teaches you guys how to do these injections? I fear if I ever did at home injections I wouldnt know how. Does the dr teach it?

check out youtube, at 1st I was shitting myself but after 10-15 its not a thing, hell I did my last one on a conf call at work "work from home" lol. It's more mental then pain, in fact last time I did it I forgot to let the alcohol dry and that stung more then the shot.

I do 25G 1inch into my quad.

[fireeater49]

[QUOTE=Ryanmcd;6522473]check out youtube, at 1st I was shitting myself but after 10-15 its not a thing, hell I did my last one on a conf call at work "work from home" lol. It's more mental then pain, in fact last time I did it I forgot to let the alcohol dry and that stung more then the shot.

I do 25G 1inch into my quad.[/QUOT]Myself, I also do 25g but 3/4 and just go slow. Not a problem and I also agree about the alcohol thing too. Ouch!

[kelkel]

Check out spotinjections.com for assistance.

[ozley62]

I don't care for Sub-Q injections at all, looks like most of the test I inject leaks back out and I've felt like shit the last month since I've being trying it. I seldom had more than a small dot of blood doing IM injections, this morning was the last Sub-Q for me.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I have been following this thread from the beginning and I started TRT on Oct 28 2012 1st 2 mths went from (78) to 468 with 100 mg a week every 3.5 days E2 shot up to 67 with top of normal range being 29 with my lab

2nd 2 mths droped to 80 mg a week SubQ 2 x's a week and Test dropped to 298 with the bottom end of normal being 250 and E2 continued to rise to 70

3rd 2 mths wet back to IM and went to 250 mg a week 2 x's a week and had an Ai + Hcg and went back to my smart GP he said no need to ck E2 or Test and that was after he scriped my generic Adex at 1 mg a day for 6 mths ? WTF

4th 2 mths I am reconstituting 2000iu's of HCG with 1 mL of Bac water and take .20 HCG daily , .30 AI every 4th day , 100 mg of Deca NPP 2 x's per week and 110 of Propioniate 2 x's a week and I feel the best I have felt in 30 years and my Dr doesn't even factor in my high dosage of opiates nor does he know how to prescribe an AI ? Sooooo he may do E2 and Test BW and he may no but I am doing the best I can and feel great ! I plan to get BW of RBC , Test and E2 on my own and just go to this doc for what he prescribes and get my other med from a good compounding Pharmacy !

When I get my son graduated I will be heading to TX to lowtestosterone.com . Really messed me up when the Sugar hill GA clinic didn't open . I am 100% disabled and the TRT has been the greatest benifit to my life since I was ran over by the truck on 02 .

Self medicating due to Dr. lack of knowledge and the need for extra Test when on high dosage of Opiates but he is so stupid he said 70 E2 and 298 Test level was GTG ? WTF ?


I am of the opinion that in a 53 year old man with legal Pain management Opiates intake that IM injections with produce a reading about 2 x's that of SubQ and I have lost 30 lbs of fat and gained 10 lbs of lean weight + dropped 4 inches in my waist not to mention my healt and reshaped body

[dhickey]

Some more info

dhickey
Baseline 243 ng/dL (Total test)
SERM 429 ng/dL (Total test) 20mg Tamoxifen ED.
IM 1223 ng/dL (Total test) 100mg IM x2, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 508 ng/dL (Total test) 60mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2
SQ 745 ng/dL (Total test) 80mg x2 SQ, 250iu HCG SQ x2

I believe these were all between my x2 injections, so not a trough.

Because of my low SHBG and fast metabolism of T, I'm currently trying 30mg EOD, 125IU HCG EOD. Hopefully this also allows me to to use less adex while keeping E2 in check. I'll probably test again in a week.

SQ 469 ng/dl (Total test) 30mg EOD SQ, 125iu HCG EOD

[Pumped340]

Great thread. Not sure if the same members are here but here is what I have:

100mg 1x per week, test done 1 week after last injection:
Testosterone , Total: 587 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free: 153.8 (35-155 pg/mL)
Estradiol: 29 (< 39 pg/mL)


125mg 1x per week, test done the day after last injection:
Estradiol: 48 (< 39 pg/mL)
Testosterone, Total: 1486 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free: 491.9 (35-155 pg/mL)
DHT: 79 (16-79 ng/dL)


125mg split into 40-42mg 3x/week, SUBQ, test done after last injection (all in glutes)
Estradiol: 51 (< 39 pg/mL)
Testosterone, Total: 1022 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Testosterone, Free: 260.6 (35-155 pg/mL)
DHT: 72 (16-79 ng/dL)

So my concern is not getting my test levels high enough, SubQ seemed to work just fine for that. My issue is my estradiol. I switched from 1x/week injections to 3x/week injections (which everyone says should lower estrogen) and I switched from IM to SQ (which Dr. Crisler says should lower estrogen) and yet my E2 actually went up just slightly

Based on this thread I am now going back to IM, but keeping it 3x per week AND doing it exclusively in my quads. I do wonder if estrogen conversion would be still go down just doing thigh injectons but still subQ. I don't think my doctor wants to keep writing all of these scripts so it's hard for me to get tested very often. I really want to avoid taking an AI but my E2 is well above the range now. I would like to see how 3x/week thigh injections work after about 6 weeks and then at that point if E2 isn't lower I think I'll have to go back down to 100mg per week total.

I am still using insulin syringes to get more accurate dosing, and they are only 1/2" long so while I am doing IM right now they are a fairly shallow IM.

[kelkel]

On your last protocol listed you mean 3 x per week, correct?
Remember, on your last two protocol's listed you tested the day after injection when everything is peaked. Which is fine just keep that in perspective when evaluating things.
I'd consider lowering your dose a bit. Your FT is still high (trust me, I'm a fan of high FT) but in your case you have room to lower it which in turn will help mitigate estrogen conversion.
Last point, and maybe most important, you're testing estradiol which is geared for women and reads higher in men. You're actual E2 would be lower. Always try to obtain a Sensitive E2 Assay.

[Pumped340]

On your last protocol listed you mean 3 x per week, correct?
Remember, on your last two protocol's listed you tested the day after injection when everything is peaked. Which is fine just keep that in perspective when evaluating things.
I'd consider lowering your dose a bit. Your FT is still high (trust me, I'm a fan of high FT) but in your case you have room to lower it which in turn will help mitigate estrogen conversion.
Last point, and maybe most important, you're testing estradiol which is geared for women and reads higher in men. You're actual E2 would be lower. Always try to obtain a Sensitive E2 Assay.

Yes, sorry about that, 3x per week. And yea my SubQ levels are pretty much exactly where we would expect IM levels to be breaking up into the 3x/week.

I have only recently heard about that estradiol issue. So the script should be written as "Sensitive Estradiol Assay" instead of just "Estradiol?" Is it possible my E2 could also be higher as well?

I do think, given my FT is so high, it would make sense to lower it, but from a bodybuilding/results standpoint I am fighting that option lol

[kelkel]

Yes, sorry about that, 3x per week. And yea my SubQ levels are pretty much exactly where we would expect IM levels to be breaking up into the 3x/week.

I have only recently heard about that estradiol issue. So the script should be written as "Sensitive Estradiol Assay" instead of just "Estradiol?" Is it possible my E2 could also be higher as well?

I do think, given my FT is so high, it would make sense to lower it, but from a bodybuilding/results standpoint I am fighting that option lol

Re SQ injections:

Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A pilot study report. - PubMed - NCBI

Sensitive E2 Assay is what you need. If you use Labcorp I can provide you the proper codes. I take them with me every time so they don't F things up.
No, not possible an E2 Sensitive Assay would read higher.
I understand the desire for higher FT. That said, you won't feel the difference if you knocked off maybe 10 mg's per injection. Remember, with injecting 3X per week you'll really never be far from peak levels anyway. Try it for a month and see. Take your last shot on a Friday, pull BW Monday a.m. before you inject. See where you fall.