TRT Gyno

**zoltan40** · 01-18-2013, 02:56 AM

Hello to all,

My Dr has given me test e 250mg to have once every 2-3 wks as a result of blood tests Test Resulst - Injection Schedule.doc. I've been stock piling that for an eventual cycle once once I become a bit more informed.

In the mean time I'm on .5ml sus 250 and .5ml deca 200 per week to assist with 40yr old bad elbow tendons and shoulder reco 4 months ago.

6wks in of my planned 8wks and I have noticed a pea under left nipple and it's sensitive. I have no doubt it is the start of gyno from researching other threads. I had gyno cut out when I was 25 and at the time they said something was left in to prevent the nipple area being concave! Trained natural since.

Having done more research on here I'm concerned my Dr never mentioned anything about being on any AI, taking Hcg for my boys or Estradiol to check levels or even being on TRT dose could leave me dependent. I know I can't touch the nolva I have on hand due to the deca.

Is it possible that what was left in has reacted to the doses in the attached doc?

Yes I'm reading the stickies and trying to absorb as best I can but honestly there are people on here that seem to know more than the Dr! Happy to be pointed to other links for more reading.

I need to get on top of understanding this because if this is how I react to these doses then the beginner cycle will most certainly be problematic. AI and possibly HCg were on my list after reading some of the educational threads.

Any thoughts on an approach while I continue my research before going to see Dr again in 5 days and push him on the things he never mentioned? Am I missing something in the picture? My plan was to drop the deca and start Nolva asap when I find the deca half-life.

Cheers guys

**APIs** · 01-18-2013, 10:22 AM

IMO you should stop playing Doctor and drop the Sus & Deca . If you're on a Doctor prescribed TRT regimen, then you have no business introducing extra compounds. There’s no cycling with TRT. Besides, I can tell you that using these extra compounds for tendon recovery is overrated. Further, your TRT Doc is clueless. The half life is only 5-7 days. Injecting 250 mgs Test E every 2-3 weeks will only put you on a hormonal roller coaster. Your E2 levels are probably screwed up on this dosing along with the Sus & Deca that you've introduced to the mix. Starting out you should be on max 100 mgs a week divided into two doses along with HCG and maybe an AI based on Blood Work. Do yourself a favor, drop the other compounds & find a qualified Doc that can get your TRT dialed-in correctly.

**kelkel** · 01-18-2013, 10:36 AM

Another clueless doc huh? You need proper bloodwork pulled. What you show is not enough to evaluate. Real question is what was the actual cause of your low T? Or did you doc just see the low levels and put you on TRT without determining a causative factor. Many, many things can cause low T that are correctable. You should take a look at the blood work listed in the Finding a Doc Sticky and pretty much get that on your next test. Eliminate LH & FSH at this point. Your E2 test needs to be a sensitive assay as well.

Estrogen control is critical and is the root cause of your problem. No high estrogen = no gyno issues. No high estrogen = no prolactin issue as deca is a 19-Nor / progestin. Progestins will not cause a problem unless high estrogen is present. So, first and foremost get a handle on your Estrogen level so the problem doesn't aggravate. Drop the deca if you wish and look into Raloxafene or Nolva.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15238910

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20425756

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/1/15.full

Read up!

**zoltan40** · 01-18-2013, 02:43 PM

API: thanks for the constructive comments.

KelKel: Thanks also for the advice. I already have the blood tests you listed in the stickie to take to Dr next week as part of my plan. The Dr saw low T and with me saying I had no libido he prescribed the test e.
When my level was at the lowest, I feel that could be linked to being just 17 days after my shoulder op and I was on some heavy opioid pain killers during that period.
Will read up. Many thanks again.

**zoltan40** · 01-18-2013, 02:46 PM

API: thanks for the constructive comments.

KelKel: Thanks also for the advice. I already have the blood tests you listed in the stickie to take to Dr next week as part of my plan. The Dr saw low T and with me saying I had no libido he prescribed the test e.
When my level was at the lowest, I feel that could be linked to being just 17 days after my shoulder op and I was on some heavy opioid pain killers during that period.
Will read up. Many thanks again.

**HRTstudent** · 01-18-2013, 05:06 PM

I have a simple yet important question, Why are you on TRT?

**zoltan40** · 01-18-2013, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

I have a simple yet important question, Why are you on TRT?

My honest answer right or wrong is this.

Initially I sought to see if I could get some test for an eventual cycle and was surprised my T levels were low then borderline...according to my Dr. I said in fact I had lost a fair bit of libido in recent times and lean mass was starting to drop off. Dr said it would improve the libido.

So I guess it was a way to improve my T levels, assist in my relationship etc. Additionally to stockpile. I deduced that I wouldn't have any issues given Dr said nothing about sides and dose was in the same range + the small dose of deca .

I'm actually steering away from meddling with TRT despite what Dr says. Thinking I have been too smart for myself and should have followed what Dr said exactly. OR just do a cycle when the time is right.

But for now I need to understand whats happening and get on top of what I'm sure is gyno. As Kelkel said I'm going to Dr and requesting that list of blood tests which should be done to ascertain things like E2 level and possible get some AI if needed. Don't think I will have any luck rather will have to take some Nolva I have at hand once I know whats going on as I wont be taking anymore deca for now.

Regards

**zoltan40** · 01-19-2013, 12:01 AM

Forgot to mention I do have other blood tests besides what I attached in original post just not sure how to put them up re: no links etc. there definitely hasn't been any E2 though.

**zoltan40** · 01-21-2013, 03:13 AM

Update:
Ceased both sus and deca .
Started 20mg Nolva ed due to lump behind nipple getting larger.
Trying to get some rolaxifene.

**lovbyts** · 01-21-2013, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by zoltan40

My honest answer right or wrong is this.

Initially I sought to see if I could get some test for an eventual cycle and was surprised my T levels were low then borderline...according to my Dr. I said in fact I had lost a fair bit of libido in recent times and lean mass was starting to drop off. Dr said it would improve the libido.

So I guess it was a way to improve my T levels, assist in my relationship etc. Additionally to stockpile. I deduced that I wouldn't have any issues given Dr said nothing about sides and dose was in the same range + the small dose of deca .

I'm actually steering away from meddling with TRT despite what Dr says. Thinking I have been too smart for myself and should have followed what Dr said exactly. OR just do a cycle when the time is right.

But for now I need to understand whats happening and get on top of what I'm sure is gyno. As Kelkel said I'm going to Dr and requesting that list of blood tests which should be done to ascertain things like E2 level and possible get some AI if needed. Don't think I will have any luck rather will have to take some Nolva I have at hand once I know whats going on as I wont be taking anymore deca for now.

Regards

Yes and no. Yes you are being to smart/dumb (no offense) trying to play doctor especially without a lot more understanding how it works but NO you should not follow what your doctor says either because he does not know much more than you do. Again no offense.

Putting you on 250mg once every 2 or 3 weeks would have made you feel even worse than before because it would be spiking your up and then crashing even further than you were originally for a week or more before spiking up again.

Everyone is different in how much they need but it should have been around 100mg - 150mg 1x a week at the least if not cut in 1/2 and injected 2x a week to keep your hormone levels nice and steady.

Most people do not require an AI on TRT but it's all E2 dependent. You should be on HCG though due to age and fertility reasons. You really dont want the boys to dry up and kill all your little swimmers.

It would be best to find another doctor. Try a Urologist. I am having better luck with my Urologist being much more knowledgeable than my Endo.
Also if you really do or did have low T or ED issues a good doctor should have first tried to figure out why and not just prescribed TRT even though that is what you were looking for. I understand your logic and what your trying to do but first you need to get everything working perfectly before you attempt a cycle. I was on TRT well over a year before I had things inline and had several blood test under my belt.

I also agree Deca for joint issues is far over rated. Been there tried that. Go with a good dose of MSN and gloominess but it's the MSN that helps most. If that does not work look into TB-500

**zoltan40** · 01-21-2013, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Yes and no. Yes you are being to smart/dumb (no offense) trying to play doctor especially without a lot more understanding how it works but NO you should not follow what your doctor says either because he does not know much more than you do. Again no offense.

Putting you on 250mg once every 2 or 3 weeks would have made you feel even worse than before because it would be spiking your up and then crashing even further than you were originally for a week or more before spiking up again.

Everyone is different in how much they need but it should have been around 100mg - 150mg 1x a week at the least if not cut in 1/2 and injected 2x a week to keep your hormone levels nice and steady.

Most people do not require an AI on TRT but it's all E2 dependent. You should be on HCG though due to age and fertility reasons. You really dont want the boys to dry up and kill all your little swimmers.

It would be best to find another doctor. Try a Urologist. I am having better luck with my Urologist being much more knowledgeable than my Endo.
Also if you really do or did have low T or ED issues a good doctor should have first tried to figure out why and not just prescribed TRT even though that is what you were looking for. I understand your logic and what your trying to do but first you need to get everything working perfectly before you attempt a cycle. I was on TRT well over a year before I had things inline and had several blood test under my belt.

I also agree Deca for joint issues is far over rated. Been there tried that. Go with a good dose of MSN and gloominess but it's the MSN that helps most. If that does not work look into TB-500

Thanks very much for your input. Everything you say makes sense. I have been reading as much as i can and doing Nolva to try and halt any further lump growth.
Have doc tomorrow and getting e2 done with view to adding an ai in the interim if required.
Will normalise everything hopefully soon.