New BW.Hight E2 for amount of test I am taking.Could my introduction of DHEA be Prob?

[TMan96]

I am in between BW with my doctor, so just to see where I am, I had BW at a local lab. I did Test and E2 only (results are below).

ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE 34 H < OR = 29 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL 616 250-1100 ng/dL
FREE TESTOSTERONE 144.1 35.0-155.0 pg/mL

I had lowered by dose to 100 mg a week (originally at 200mg a week) because my total and free test were well over the range. I also had noticed my DHEA was low, so I have started supplementing with DHEA.

Current Stats: I am 46 years old 5’7 166lbs. (12.2%bf)

Current Protocol:
Cypionate - 100mg a week
Anastrozole – .25mg 2x a week.
HCG - (250iu 2 times a week)
Armour Thyroid - 60mg daily
Vitamin D3 – 9,000iu
Zocor – 5mg
Now DHEA 50mg (reading was DHEA-S 54 ng/ml 31-701 before I started taking the DHEA about 2 months ago)
Donate Blood every 3 months.
Questions:
1.For me, is the fact that the DHEA appears to be raising my Estrodiol worth the benefit of being on it. To tell you the truth I haven’t been able to tell any difference while on it.
2.If I decide to stay on for a little while longer to see if there are benefits, what should I increase my AI to? .25mg 3x a week??
I will have my full BW done again by my doc in the middle of Feb.


Thanks!

[kelkel]

Is it 100mg one time per week or 50mg every 3.5 days? If once per week try splitting it. Less injected = less spike in E.
When are you taking your AI? For best results take 24hrs after injection to help time peaks.
HCG the day before injection(s)

Now, dhea can raise estrogen levels slightly. It did mine but I wanted that. It's also good for your cholesterol and has many other fine attributes. Stay the course with it or maybe drop to 25mg micro. Try adding zinc and calcium d-glucarate to your protocol to help with your E.

kel

[steroid.com 1]

Nothing more to add what the wise one stated above.

DHEA may raise E2 but like kel stated; very slightly if at all.

DHEA near or at the top of the reference range is where you want it to be.

[TMan96]

Is it 100mg one time per week or 50mg every 3.5 days? If once per week try splitting it. Less injected = less spike in E.
When are you taking your AI? For best results take 24hrs after injection to help time peaks.
HCG the day before injection(s)

Now, dhea can raise estrogen levels slightly. It did mine but I wanted that. It's also good for your cholesterol and has many other fine attributes. Stay the course with it or maybe drop to 25mg micro. Try adding zinc and calcium d-glucarate to your protocol to help with your E.

kel

Kel, my protocol is as you suggested with that kind of split for Test, AI and hCG. The DHEA I have is as micro.

Will there be any noticeable results I should see on the DHEA, or is it going to only show in my numbers when I have them redone.

Thanks!

[kelkel]

I don't think you're going to really feel anything from the dhea but it basically fills in gaps that are left since your injecting T downstream. It will help give your body balance.

[lacey23]

I kind of wonder if DHEA is worth the hassle sometimes, and if it's just treating #'s on a paper.

From what i can tell, it's main duty is to turn into other hormones like test, E2, eventually DHT, etc... But, if those hormones are fine, is it worth adding another variable into the mix? I mean, if T3 is fine, and T4 is mid range, nobody advocates that we need to up t4, right?

[kelkel]

Oh you'll survive without it and I can't disagree that sometimes we may micromanage things a bit more than the normal guy here. But, if I'm gonna be stuck on TRT for life I just want to optimize everything if possible. And with your thyroid analogy it would depend on your TSH level as elevated tsh suppresses T4. Then you have to look at FT3, FT4, RT3 and antibodies, but I digress.

My point would be that dhea micro is cheap and effective so why not use it. It has many benefits.

Read this link lacy:

http://www.lef.org/protocols/metabol...oration_01.htm

[lacey23]

Oh you'll survive without it and I can't disagree that sometimes we may micromanage things a bit more than the normal guy here. But, if I'm gonna be stuck on TRT for life I just want to optimize everything if possible. And with your thyroid analogy it would depend on your TSH level as elevated tsh suppresses T4. Then you have to look at FT3, FT4, RT3 and antibodies, but I digress.

My point would be that dhea micro is cheap and effective so why not use it. It has many benefits.

Read this link lacy:

I just question it's real impact. I might add it some day, when everything else is fine, but I think tackling the big players like Test, E2, Thyroid, Cortisol, etc... are more important, and should be done first to get optimized. They are the things that really impact quality of life. Then after you are doing great on that, maybe worry about adding in DHEA to get #'s on a page better.

Regarding some of the points of the article.

DHEA is a hormone that is produced from the synthesis of pregnenolone. It may be metabolized into other hormones including testosterone and estrogen. DHEA is the most prevalent steroid hormone in the body.

I'm not sure being 'a lot' of it really constitutes necessity if it's chief responsibility is to turn into other hormones (assuming those other hormones are good).

Low DHEA levels are clearly associated with a range of diseases, including heart disease, diabetes, inflammation, Alzheimer's, and others.

I question if it is DHEA that is causing this, or if someone that has low DHEA probably is low in testosterone , old, low in pregnenolone, low in cortisol, etc... And those things are the big players.

Is there any evidence that replenishing DHEA, while not touching those other hormones is going to reduce the risk of diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc..?

DHEA levels drop dramatically as people age. There are pronounced differences in the average DHEA levels of men and women, with women on average having lower DHEA levels.

DHEA replacement therapy can restore youthful DHEA levels.

I'm not doubting that DHEA drops in age, and replacement can restore youthful DHEA levels. I'm questioning if replacing it actually does anything. Is being top of the range necessarily better than being mid range? I mean, my great grandfather is 98yo. I would guess that his DHEA levels haven't been top of the range for 70% of his life. Would he have done better if he supplemented DHEA for 70 years? I think it's feasible he would have had more energy in his later years had he looked at TRT and what not, but I question if supplementing DHEA would do anything.

Also, it seems like a trend in TRT is 'less is more'. So, could that not be said for DHEA as well? Maybe sticking mid range is better than having to pop another pill. Especially if it causes you to add or increase an AI. Also, from what I understand oral DHEA is in/out of your system in a couple hours. So, is increasing DHEA for 2 hours of the day really accomplishing the high DHEA levels in the first place?

[lacey23]

Oh you'll survive without it and I can't disagree that sometimes we may micromanage things a bit more than the normal guy here. But, if I'm gonna be stuck on TRT for life I just want to optimize everything if possible. And with your thyroid analogy it would depend on your TSH level as elevated tsh suppresses T4. Then you have to look at FT3, FT4, RT3 and antibodies, but I digress.

My point would be that dhea micro is cheap and effective so why not use it. It has many benefits.

Read this link lacy:

I just question it's real impact. I might add it some day, when everything else is fine, but I think tackling the big players like Test, E2, Thyroid, Cortisol, etc... are more important, and should be done first to get optimized. They are the things that really impact quality of life. Then after you are doing great on that, maybe worry about adding in DHEA to get #'s on a page better.

Regarding some of the points of the article.

DHEA is a hormone that is produced from the synthesis of pregnenolone. It may be metabolized into other hormones including testosterone and estrogen. DHEA is the most prevalent steroid hormone in the body.

I'm not sure being 'a lot' of it really constitutes necessity if it's chief responsibility is to turn into other hormones (assuming those other hormones are good).

Low DHEA levels are clearly associated with a range of diseases, including heart disease, diabetes, inflammation, Alzheimer's, and others.

I question if it is DHEA that is causing this, or if someone that has low DHEA probably is low in testosterone , old, low in pregnenolone, low in cortisol, etc... And those things are the big players.

Is there any evidence that replenishing DHEA, while not touching those other hormones is going to reduce the risk of diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc..?

DHEA levels drop dramatically as people age. There are pronounced differences in the average DHEA levels of men and women, with women on average having lower DHEA levels.

DHEA replacement therapy can restore youthful DHEA levels.

I'm not doubting that DHEA drops in age, and replacement can restore youthful DHEA levels. I'm questioning if replacing it actually does anything. Is being top of the range necessarily better than being mid range? I mean, my great grandfather is 98yo. I would guess that his DHEA levels haven't been top of the range for 70% of his life. Would he have done better if he supplemented DHEA for 70 years? I think it's feasible he would have had more energy in his later years had he looked at TRT and what not, but I question if supplementing DHEA would do anything.

Also, it seems like a trend in TRT is 'less is more'. So, could that not be said for DHEA as well? Maybe sticking mid range is better than having to pop another pill. Especially if it causes you to add or increase an AI. Also, from what I understand oral DHEA is in/out of your system in a couple hours. So, is increasing DHEA for 2 hours of the day really accomplishing the high DHEA levels in the first place?


Edit- the spam software is pain, lol.

[HRTstudent]

DHEA is well known to increase E2 levels. As always, some people are more susceptible than others.

You could try lowering the dose or splitting it up. Measure DHEAs (sulfate) to monitor how it's impacting your levels.

I personally don't know how much one can expect to FEEL with supplemental DHEA unless a person was deficient in it and it was largely or solely responsibly for their negative effects. I'm sure that is the case sometimes, but I doubt its most. Nonetheless, there is a lot of research on DHEA and science tells us we are probably better off with youthful levels of the stuff... it's also very inexpensive and readily available and, for the most part, extremely safe.

[kelkel]

Lacey you make some lucid arguments. Realize though that those same arguments probably hold true for just about everything we take, including test. I prefer to be at the top of the scale if I have to manage this medically as opposed to mid-range, all things being equal. My only point is what I said above and HRT did as well. It's cheap and easy so why not. But, numbers don't always equate to feeling better, right! It's about how YOU feel, numbers be damned.

[steroid.com 1]

Read the sticky at the top of the forum on HCG and Pregnenolone and read the section on DHEA and the presentation by Dr. Neal Rouzier, M.D. it's very compelling information.