Increased tT from 348-799 in 30 days on Clomid. Having ED issues, need AI help

**Stuart37** · 01-28-2013, 01:51 AM

Hey guys, this is my first post, though I have read hundreds of yours on my journey to this point. Im a 34 year old male, never used steroids , but had signs of low T. Have done crossfit for the last year, dont eat any refined sugar, no carbonation, and weigh about 185.

Ill post my blood tests below, but a but basically my T has gone from 348-799 in 30 days on Clomid. Im ecstatic about that. However after about a week on it I had some very serious ED issues...as in nothing was going to keep it up, and almost 0 libido. I have read numerous accounts of of Clomid screwing up libido/ED on this board so I know that is common. I believe this relates to my E2 levels which have gone from 27.6-38.3.

Am I correct to assume the E2 spike could be causing my libido/ED issues? And if so, what AI would you recommend? I want to stay on Clomid, but having a sex drive beats having energy to go to the gym, and less bellyfat for me. Im going to the doc tomorrow at 10:45am to discuss and Id love to have an educated discussion. Also, I should mention that after freaking out about the ED my friend gave me some liquid Cialis he got from the guy who makes his gear. It definitely helped, world of difference, so I will ask about getting a script for that tomorrow, but would love to solve the problem, not the symptom.

Test Results from Lab Corp
Test 1: 12/20/12
DHEA-Sulfate 258ug/dl Ref 160-449.0
Testosterone , Serum 348 ng/dl Ref 348-1197
TSH 3.820 uIU/mL Ref .450-4.5
FSH, Serum 5.1 mIU/mL Ref 1.5-12.4
Estradiol 27.6 pg/Ml Ref 7.6-42.6
Vitamin D 34.2 ng/mL Ref 30.0-100.0
Triiodothyronine, Free Serum 2.8 ng/mL Ref 2.0-4.4

Test 2: 1/22/13
Testosterone Total 799 ng/dl Ref 348-1197
Testosterone Free 16.5 pg/mL Ref 8.7-25.1
Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct 1.33 ng/dl Ref .82-1.77
TSH 4.480 uIU/mL Ref .450-4.500
Estradiol 38.3 pg/mL Ref 7.6-42.6
Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 3.3 pg/mL Ref 2.0-4.4

I dont know why different things were tested at the different tests, will ask. Currently taking 25 mg CLomid 5x/week, NatureThroid 32.5MG ED, and a zinc supplement.

Any AI help would be much appreciated, both me and my girlfriend are pretty anxious about this.

**lovbyts** · 01-28-2013, 03:05 AM

You could just order some adex from the banner at the upper right corner, Ar-r .
You could also try cutting your Clomid in 1/2 to see if that helps. More test is not always better. A lot of people feel better under 600.

**Stuart37** · 01-28-2013, 03:33 AM

THANK YOU lovbyts! I will definitely do that if doc wont prescribe. What dose do you thing would be wise to start at for adex? I know its pretty potent. Also, I have been reading alot about DIM Supplements reducing E, but cant find anything on this forum about them. Have you heard of any successes with DIM? I guess if it comes from broccoli it cant hurt, but Im suspicious because Im unable to get any hits on here when I search "DIM".

Thanks again for the quick response.

**lovbyts** · 01-28-2013, 04:04 AM

.25mg x 2x per week of Adex

**GotNoBlueMilk** · 01-28-2013, 09:22 AM

Clomid itself will contribute to erectile issues. Many have experienced this issue, even with stable E2 levels. My personal experience, I will never take Clomid again. Even after I stopped it took a couple months for my libido to return, despite good hormone levels.

**kelkel** · 01-28-2013, 10:23 AM

Is that E test a sensitive assay? If not it basically relates to women, not men. Yes, high or low E2 can cause libido issues and many other sides as well. Proper Labcorp codes are as follows for the E Sensitive Test: #140244, CPT code 82670. Write these down and take them with you every time you go and hand it to the lab worker coding in your request. They are really not familiar with it and will screw it up if you don't.

Your taking a thyroid supp but your TSH is still through the roof. A more modern scale is .3 - 3.0. Other than tsh what you posted for thyroid is not bad but you need more tests done as hypothyroid can be a major player in causing Low T. Include TSH, T3, T4, FT3, FT4, RT3 and Antibodies.

Your Vit D level is in the tank. Begin supplementing with D3 immediately. Maybe 5k IU per day and titrate based on BW. Take it with meals as it's fat soluble. D will lower SHBG and raise free T. It's a great hormone.

Where is your LH level in all of the above? Take a look at the Finding a Doc Sticky for an example of BW to get and fill in the blanks.

**blacktoppete** · 01-28-2013, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Is that E test a sensitive assay? If not it basically relates to women, not men. Yes, high or low E2 can cause libido issues and many other sides as well. Proper Labcorp codes are as follows for the E Sensitive Test: #140244, CPT code 82670. Write these down and take them with you every time you go and hand it to the lab worker coding in your request. They are really not familiar with it and will screw it up if you don't.

Your taking a thyroid supp but your TSH is still through the roof. A more modern scale is .3 - 3.0. Other than tsh what you posted for thyroid is not bad but you need more tests done as hypothyroid can be a major player in causing Low T. Include TSH, T3, T4, FT3, FT4, RT3 and Antibodies.

Your Vit D level is in the tank. Begin supplementing with D3 immediately. Maybe 5k IU per day and titrate based on BW. Take it with meals as it's fat soluble. D will lower SHBG and raise free T. It's a great hormone.

Where is your LH level in all of the above? Take a look at the Finding a Doc Sticky for an example of BW to get and fill in the blanks.

Thanks for the great info! I wrote that test code down and put it in my wallet.

**HRTstudent** · 01-28-2013, 03:41 PM

I have no personal experience, but I have heard that clomid can effect the results of an E2 test.

I personally have seen that tamoxifen does not interfere with the ultrasensitive E2 test from Quest though.

it's also my personal opinion that clomid plus an AI seems unnecessary. I would, personally, rather just lower the clomid dose. I don't think being on an AI long term is a great idea though... I would rather seek ways to avoid its use altogether.

**bp2000** · 01-28-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by HRTstudent

I have no personal experience, but I have heard that clomid can effect the results of an E2 test.

I personally have seen that tamoxifen does not interfere with the ultrasensitive E2 test from Quest though.

it's also my personal opinion that clomid plus an AI seems unnecessary. I would, personally, rather just lower the clomid dose. I don't think being on an AI long term is a great idea though... I would rather seek ways to avoid its use altogether.

90% of guys on here use AI long term and the mechanism in which Clomid works usually raises E2. So small amount of AI might be needed. But I agree if you can avoid long term AI use it would be best. Hopefully TRT will advance in the coming years that will be more convient to use. Sticking yourself multiple times a week and using AI longterm plus adding in HCG can be cumbersome overtime.

**Stuart37** · 01-29-2013, 03:40 PM

GotnoBlueMilk-How long were you on clomid and at what dose? I ask because I feel like over time Im seeing by libido creeping back,and Im hopefull of that possibility but it is too early to tell.

KelKel-It was NOT a sensitive test, so thank you for the input, I will make sure the next one is. And I am very worried about the thyroid as well and wonder if that is what caused the low T to begin with. I discussed this with the Doc, he said he wanted to try upping my NatureThroid. I asked about Synthroid and he said he prefers natural over it at least for now.

So, the update is as follows: In my attempt to take the least amount of scripts (though I realize arguements can be made that supplements are scripts) I am going to see what happens to E2 after a month of taking DIM (the broccoli supplement) Ive read alot about it, and it seems possible. I am also going to start working out 4-5 times a week instead of 3 at crossfit to see if that can help lower Estrogen as well.

I appreciate everyones help. I am not very knowlegable yet, but that will change and I think keeping a journal on here of what I did, as well as the results will help alot of people in similiar circumstances.

The only other change besides DIM i am making is to start taking l-arninine. THe doc reccommended it and I purchased a tub of the powder. Has anyone seen results with l-arginine, and if so what? Im about to start searching this forum for info on it.

**Stuart37** · 01-29-2013, 03:57 PM

HRTstudent-Great point. I think Im going to see what happens with the DIM, and if not change in E2 lower my clomid from 25mg to 12.5mg. I really dont care what my tT number is, I just want to feel better again. I think its going to be a long process but Im encouraged, especially with this board, that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

**Stuart37** · 01-29-2013, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Your Vit D level is in the tank. Begin supplementing with D3 immediately. Maybe 5k IU per day and titrate based on BW. Take it with meals as it's fat soluble. D will lower SHBG and raise free T. It's a great hormone.
.

Great point. I started on the D3, and am currenlty doing 4kiu but could easily do 6k (they are 2k each pill) Sorry for the dumb question but what do you mean by "titrate based on BW" ?