Best TRT protocol?

**Movingmetal** · 08-01-2012, 07:23 PM

Im on testogel 50mg/5g daily.
Wanting to swap to a weekly injection.
I know everyone is different and needs tweeking, however,
what is a generally successful protocol with weekly injection?
Cheers lads

**SEOINAGE** · 08-01-2012, 08:06 PM

twice weekly injection, ai, and hcg .

**DanMan250** · 08-01-2012, 09:03 PM

An AI is generally not needed for TRT and not advised unless absolutely necessary due to a range of side effects. You will need to experiment by finding the dose of test that will bring you to the upper range of normal, but not beyond it. At this dose you should not need an AI. For most stable levels you should inject twice a week. I inject 40mg every Thursday morning and every Sunday night, so once every 3.5 days. I also use a 30g slin pin which is totally painless although it takes longer to inject. I draw out the oil using a 21g pin into a 1ml syringe, then switch to a 30g pin to inject it. If you want to try injections you should ask your doc for Primoteston and state your reasons to him why you want to switch to injections. Most people prefer them because they are quicker and easier and unlike gels/creams you don't have to plan your day around them. When the weather is cold, slathering on that Testogel can be a real annoyance. One of the big downsides of gels/creams apart from the need for daily application is that you need to wait atleast 2 hours before you can get the area wet, so swimming is out during that time as is any exercise where you will sweat a lot. Gels/cream can also potentially cross contaminate other people you are in close contact with like girlfriend/wife, children etc. Finally, injections are cheaper than Testogel.

**xtitan1** · 08-01-2012, 09:15 PM

I've also read that DHT tends to increase more with gels than with injections. Abnormally high DHT levels are associated with hair loss.

**fit2bOld** · 08-02-2012, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by SEOINAGE

twice weekly injection, ai, and hcg.

This is best..

An AI needs to be considered for all TRT patients and its use verified by blood work.

**SEOINAGE** · 08-02-2012, 07:13 AM

I tried to get by without AI, and did so for a while, even lowered my T dose to try and keep E2 in range. When I lowered my test dose my acne got even worse. Result was weak erections and felt like crap, had to bump my dose back up and add ai. Sexual function improved and acne reduced dramatically, water retention went away and I feel the best I ever have since being on TRT. My opinion is the same though on it, do it based on blood work not saying everyone ultimately needs it, but should be checked to see if they do.

**bass** · 08-02-2012, 10:56 AM

[QUOTE=DanMan250;6097042]An AI is generally not needed for TRT and not advised unless absolutely necessary due to a range of side effects.QUOTE]

Not true! ^^^

OP, like you said, everyone is different, but the twice a week protocol seems to be highly favorite. of course along with AI and hCG .

**steroid.com 1** · 08-02-2012, 11:00 AM

^^^^Agree with bass.

More importantly, the OP needs to get a complete and thorough BW done before any new protocol can be recommended.

Do that FIRST, then work with your Doc on the right injection protocol that's best for you.

**Hackamaniac** · 08-02-2012, 01:40 PM

I just started an Ai.....In a few days i'm already less irritable and just feel better.... I still don't feel great yet, but I definitely needed an Ai..

**xcraider37** · 08-02-2012, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Hackamaniac

I just started an Ai.....In a few days i'm already less irritable and just feel better.... I still don't feel great yet, but I definitely needed an Ai..

Hack just becareful not to knock yourself down too low. It can happen fast because symptoms are similar.

**bass** · 08-02-2012, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by xcraider37

Hack just becareful not to knock yourself down too low. It can happen fast because symptoms are similar.

you are right, he could him bottom within 2 weeks! it works pretty damn fast.

**Movingmetal** · 08-04-2012, 08:38 PM

So i go to my doc in 2 weeks.
If i request 100mg of Primoteston and 500IU of HCG each week,
would this be considered reasonable?

**Hackamaniac** · 08-04-2012, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by xcraider37

Hack just becareful not to knock yourself down too low. It can happen fast because symptoms are similar.

Thanks, but I'm only on .25 mg twice a week now... Will get retested in six weeks.

**DanMan250** · 08-05-2012, 12:23 AM

Well according to Dr Mark Gordon who is probably the leading TRT doc in the US, AI's do more harm than good unless you have excessively high E that cannot be controlled by other methods. He believes that the AIs get into the brain and prevent conversion of T to E there and that somehow interferes with growth hormone secretion. Dr Gordon has over 1200 patients on TRT and has treated patients that Dr Crisler was unable to help. Even Dr Crisler has stated that he does not like to put guys on arimidex unless absolutely necessary when they have symptoms of high E2 that can't be solved by just decreasing testosterone dose.
Normally small frequent doses of test do not require an AI! I have seen many lab results that confirm this. The guys who are doing ED and EOD shots cannot increase their E2, or DHT for that matter. Like him or loathe him, Dr Scally on Meso-rx has also stated several times that an AI is not normally needed in TRT.

**DanMan250** · 08-05-2012, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Movingmetal

So i go to my doc in 2 weeks.
If i request 100mg of Primoteston and 500IU of HCG each week,
would this be considered reasonable?

That is an average starting dose. Personally i like to use more HCG dosed at 100iu per day. If i were u i would split my test dose into twice a week, or every 3.5 days to be precise, like every Sunday night and Thursday morning so that you keep levels more stable. With primoteston u would need to draw up 0.2ml into a 1ml syringe using anything from an 18g to 21g pin then switch to a anything from a 26g to 30g 1/2 inch pin to inject into the delts or lateral thigh, or glutes, doesn't matter. It can go IM or sub q, it does not matter it will still get absorbed.
You should ask him to test your thyroid function too if he hasn't done so already bcuz this can change during the course of TRT so u need to keep a track of it.

**Oldhighlander** · 08-06-2012, 04:32 AM

Danman what other methods?I have tried the recommended supplements and it didn't work for me.So what else is there to try?

**Oldhighlander** · 08-07-2012, 05:27 AM

Danman ?

**APIs** · 08-07-2012, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by DanMan250

Normally small frequent doses of test do not require an AI! I have seen many lab results that confirm this. The guys who are doing ED and EOD shots cannot increase their E2, or DHT for that matter. Like him or loathe him, Dr Scally on Meso-rx has also stated several times that an AI is not normally needed in TRT.

No offense meant, but I disagree with your continued stance here and it is actually teetering on bro-science IMO. How many "lab results" have you seen exactly to be making such a statement; 3, 5 maybe 10? Ineffective management of high E2 levels is a serious matter for many people on TRT which has been documented countless times on this forum. Everyone is different when it comes to E2 and requiring an AI. Making such a broad ranging generality at best can be harmful to someone who has limited knowledge & is just starting TRT.

**Movingmetal** · 08-07-2012, 10:52 PM

So basically,
I will request to go on
-100mg of Primoteston either once per week or 50mg 2x per weeek;
-350UI of HCG x2 per week.

Then after 6 weeks, i will check E2 and DHT and see if test needs to be lowered and if AI is needed.

**DanMan250** · 08-08-2012, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Oldhighlander

Danman what other methods?I have tried the recommended supplements and it didn't work for me.So what else is there to try?

There is no one best method. You just have to find the one that suits you best. My preference is a twice weekly shot of test cypionate , but if you don't like jabbing yourself, go with a gel/cream or pellets. There are pros and cons for each method which have all been discussed here before.

**DanMan250** · 08-08-2012, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by APIs

No offense meant, but I disagree with your continued stance here and it is actually teetering on bro-science IMO. How many "lab results" have you seen exactly to be making such a statement; 3, 5 maybe 10? Ineffective management of high E2 levels is a serious matter for many people on TRT which has been documented countless times on this forum. Everyone is different when it comes to E2 and requiring an AI. Making such a broad ranging generality at best can be harmful to someone who has limited knowledge & is just starting TRT.

I don't know how many lab results i've seen, but i have been reading the posts on the mens health forum at meso-rx as well as the posts on Dr Crisler's allthingsmale forum for 2 years now and a lot of guys there have posted their lab results. A lot of guys who have had E2 problems on one shot a week were able to control their E2 by splitting their dose into 2 or more shots each week. I'm not saying this will work every single time, but probably most of the time as Dr Marianco and Dr Crisler have stated before. Of course if you are taking as much as 200mg per week of test you will no doubt need an AI. There is a post from Marianco several years ago where he states that patients of his who were having high E2 problems on one 100mg shot per week no longer had these problems when they split their dose into 50mg twice a week. Recently there have been a number of posts from guys on allthingsmale who have been doing daily shots of test cypionate totally up to 140mg week and they have been unable to raise their E2!

**Oldhighlander** · 08-08-2012, 05:30 AM

Im on 100 mgs a week split in 2 doses and still have high E.Im not willing to pin every day.

**DanMan250** · 08-08-2012, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Oldhighlander

Im on 100 mgs a week split in 2 doses and still have high E.Im not willing to pin every day.

What is your test and E2 level on 50mg twice a week? This dose was too high for me so now I inject 40mg every 3.5 days and with this dose have high normal test and normal E2. Guys on pellets don't seem to complain about high E2, so this could be another option for you.

**Oldhighlander** · 08-08-2012, 05:48 AM

My test was 809 range up to 890 and E2 57.

**Hackamaniac** · 08-08-2012, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by DanMan250

What is your test and E2 level on 50mg twice a week? This dose was too high for me so now I inject 40mg every 3.5 days and with this dose have high normal test and normal E2. Guys on pellets don't seem to complain about high E2, so this could be another option for you.

I was doing 60mg of test cyp every 3.5 days....It only got me to like 430 on a scale of 300-1100... And My e2 was 45..And I definitely had high e symptoms even at 45.

**Oldhighlander** · 08-08-2012, 01:44 PM

Gotta stick with injections.My insurance won't cover pellets and I am sure my doc has no knowledge of it.I think my only option is an AI at this point .I pretty much have tried all there is to try but an AI .

**Hackamaniac** · 08-08-2012, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Oldhighlander

Gotta stick with injections.My insurance won't cover pellets and I am sure my doc has no knowledge of it.I think my only option is an AI at this point .I pretty much have tried all there is to try but an AI .

Are you doing subq or Im?

**Oldhighlander** · 08-09-2012, 05:28 AM

Im .

**Viking13** · 08-09-2012, 07:27 AM

I have a question. Do you guys thing 2mg a week of arimidex is too much on 200mg a week of test split into 2 shots every 3.5 days?

**xcraider37** · 08-09-2012, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Viking13

I have a question. Do you guys thing 2mg a week of arimidex is too much on 200mg a week of test split into 2 shots every 3.5 days?

200 mg of test might be too much, how is your level? As you know reducing the amount of t will reduce the amount of adex needed.

**brazilian86** · 08-09-2012, 11:06 AM

2 mg of arimidex is fine on 200mg of testosterone .
200mg of testosterone is not too much. Check levels, everybody is different. I am 165lbs, 26 yrs old and 5'9 and 200mg takes me to a nice level!
Good luck

**Oldhighlander** · 08-10-2012, 04:40 AM

Was going from memory on my E2.It is actually 67 not 57.

**Movingmetal** · 08-23-2012, 06:58 PM

Hey guys so i have swapped to Primoteston 250mg/ml.
I have been prescribed 1ml per 10 days.
So am going to do 125mg per 5 days.
I also got Pregnyl 5000 IU.
Will go 500IU per week to start, split into 2.
Will only start AI if E2 is high.

**fireeater49** · 02-10-2013, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Movingmetal

Hey guys so i have swapped to Primoteston 250mg/ml.
I have been prescribed 1ml per 10 days.
So am going to do 125mg per 5 days.
I also got Pregnyl 5000 IU.
Will go 500IU per week to start, split into 2.
Will only start AI if E2 is high.

Monitor not only with BW but how you feel. Give it a good 6-8 weeks. Myself, my doc did the every 10 days (roller coaster man!) and I had no HCG nor AI. After 8 weeks of feeling stronger but worse in everything else (except VS and BW) I dropped down from 200mg to 150mg and felt better. Although my test went from 288 to 386 and bio went from 8 to 10.2 (think scale is 8-21) my e2 was 12. Still tinkering, be patient and opened minded (except the roller coaster ride) Good luck