does the hubby need an AI or hcg?

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 08:17 AM

hi everyone, i have been lurking for quite some time reading everything i can on trt for the hubby and have learned a lot.

heres our story real quick: me38 hubby 42...cant loose weight, bad mood, sleeps a lot, no energy or sex drive and depression. finally got him into my low cost clinic general doc and his test level was 98. yeah wow....so ok send us to an endo or something for trt please! we are trying desperatley for a kid..our first....but no we have to have insurance or this state crappy thing.....we are trying to get it all together and sent in again.....some bs happened and they denied us the first time.....its been 8 months now....

so i have been getting as much info as i can and we put him on trt ourselves....yeah we shouldnt do that..but we have been waiting 8 months...i think he has been very low t for 10 years...and i want his sex drive to be there...cuz 0 sucks....i cant wait any more...

so.....we started him out on 200 mg of test enth this first week..after that i think 150 a week should be good.....

now heres the question.....since his t was so low.....and is on this low dose do you think he should also be on an AI or hcg or something else to help protect his sperm? because we desperately want to have a baby....
also should i get him on DHEA and Pregnenolone? or anything else that could up his sperm levels or at least protect him now? if so on anything how much??

i think all my problems have been worked out and i am on clomid...but that hasnt worked......mainly cuz he has no sex drive.....its really hurt so much but its been 2 days and i have already seen him acting a bit better.....so i know it will work in 2 or 3 more weeks......

also yes we plan to get a sperm test done asap but i cant find any affordable ones from those local labs you order online......
and also yes we plan on continuing this until we get insurance to see a doc to get him on this stuff legit....
and until then we plan to use online labs to check his level in about 8 weeks from now...

any help? thanks

**Papa Smurf** · 02-03-2013, 08:28 AM

The answer is yes He needs an AI and hcg

Kelkel will be along soon and give you more detailed answer. Listen to him is my best advice

What kind of UGL test is he taking (ester is what Im looking for, prop, cyp, eth)

Good Luck

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 08:43 AM

ok...waiting on kelkel....he is on half a cc of test eth every week from a bottle of 300 mg/ml. i have a bottle of 5000 i.u. of hcg in the freezer right now....we did the hcg diet to loose weight..i did ( 50 lbs) but he had to stop as it made him very depressed and sad...really really sad.....that wont happen again will it?

i also see other peoples regiment....should he take his test 2x a week so he wont need an AI? on the arr site...they have liquidex? would that stuff work? i want to make sure 1. he has energy fianlly..2. a sex drive finally 3. stay fertile and most important we dont have a lot of money.....so any way we can keep it as cheap as possible is really important for us....thanks

**Trific** · 02-03-2013, 12:00 PM

"i also see other peoples regiment....should he take his test 2x a week so he wont need an AI?"

Welcome!
Yes, that's how to do it, you can just follow the regiment that is commonly suggested to others.
I would supplement both DHEA and Pregnenolone, 50mg each.
I suggest that it might be best not to go more than 100mg of test in the future weeks since you aren't gonna do BW for 8 weeks....so that he stands a better chance of not driving his E2 too high thus causing him problems.
It would be nice to see BW on his thyroid too.
Maybe you could hold off for just a bit on HCG since it's caused him trouble in the past and bring it on board when he is feeling better.

**Trific** · 02-03-2013, 12:14 PM

You probably will want to start the HCG soon though since you want his fertility to be good.
One of our teachers here might have some other ideas on how to get his fertility high for now....

**steroid.com 1** · 02-03-2013, 12:16 PM

I understand you are in a very difficult situation but you are not a trained Physician or Clinician and any medical advise you get here is straight out dangerous...period.

How do you know if your husband's low androgen levels are not being caused by some medical condition like Hypothyroidism, Diabetes, Pituitary Tumor/Disorders, Testicular or Liver pathologies...the list goes on.

I urge you to seek proper medical care or you will ultimately end up in a far worse place than you are now...trust me when I say that.

Don't do something stupid because you're desperate and seek the right care.

Our sponsor lowtestosterone.com is just $199 per month all inclusive...try that first.

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 12:34 PM

yes as i stated...we want to do this through a doc.....but im sick of being jerked around...we have been trying to get him in somewhere for 8 months now.....ive been dealing with a man with no...0...sex drive fro 2 years now.....were poor....what else can i say? only the rich in this country get help....

anyway we had a full workup done on him, no low thyroid. no high bp, no diabetese....nothing but low t count

of course any advice here isnt to be taken as medical advice....im not here to get peopel in trouble or start junk...im here for help and advice cuz i am going nuts reading everything on her and tons of forums....until we get in to see a doc....i want to make sure i can help my hubby get back to normal and maybe a normal sex drive and still fertile....

**kelkel** · 02-03-2013, 12:36 PM

Totally agree with GD. You need a proper diagnosis first and foremost. The cause of your husbands low T could very well be correctable. Right now you are putting a bandaid on the problem which ultimately may mask the underlying issue. That is a very low T level which IMHO seems to go beyond an age related issue. That opinion comes from experience as I was down to a 59 level.

Please seek a proper medical diagnosis! Then have that kid!

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 12:39 PM

is that 50mg of dhea and pregnenoloe a day??

all bloodowrk came back fine except that low t level....thyroid, bp, diabetese..everything....
how long does a bottle of hcg last once mixed up?

Originally Posted by Trific

"i also see other peoples regiment....should he take his test 2x a week so he wont need an AI?"

Welcome!
Yes, that's how to do it, you can just follow the regiment that is commonly suggested to others.
I would supplement both DHEA and Pregnenolone, 50mg each.
I suggest that it might be best not to go more than 100mg of test in the future weeks since you aren't gonna do BW for 8 weeks....so that he stands a better chance of not driving his E2 too high thus causing him problems.
It would be nice to see BW on his thyroid too.
Maybe you could hold off for just a bit on HCG since it's caused him trouble in the past and bring it on board when he is feeling better.

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 12:44 PM

this lowtestosterone.com site seems to be just knowledge base..... what is this 199 all inclusive you talk about? does this place do blood work and stuff? because if so i dont see anywhere where you pay for anything...i just see a big knowledge database

**Trific** · 02-03-2013, 12:51 PM

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...Over-20-Cities

Suppose to be everything one needs: The BW, test, HCG , AI and Dr's supervision.

**Henryhill470** · 02-03-2013, 12:52 PM

You have just got the best advice from two of the most knowledgable people in this site ! Please take GD & KelKel's advice and find the money and seek professional help for a proper diagnosis. Them come back here and start over. We wouldn't be saying this if we didn't care !

Thanks GD & KelKel !

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 01:09 PM

Suppose to be everything one needs: The BW, test, HCG , AI and Dr's supervision.

ok well thanks.....we dont live near any of these sites.....otherwise i would scrape up the money.....ill still look into it.....until then i will just go by anotehr post i saw on here on someone elses protocol they do.....sorry guys i appreciate the 'you need to go to a doc' but we have been trying...but seriously..only the rich in this country get treatment and care....those of us liek me and my hubby have to do it all ourselves or we get nothing..and noone cares...well i care..i cant deal with a hubby with 0 sex drive anymore. and neither can he....

and we cant wait another 8 months to try and find a doc who probably will tell us his levels are normal....

**steroid.com 1** · 02-03-2013, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Totally agree with GD. You need a proper diagnosis first and foremost. The cause of your husbands low T could very well be correctable. Right now you are putting a bandaid on the problem which ultimately may mask the underlying issue. That is a very low T level which IMHO seems to go beyond an age related issue. That opinion comes from experience as I was down to a 59 level.

Please seek a proper medical diagnosis! Then have that kid!

That was my thought; something is wrong with him, that serum level is dangerously low.

OP - Can you please post his blood work here in this thread complete with ranges?

lowtestosterone.com is all inclusive meaning Physician visits, diagnosis and protocol complete with meds and supplies.

They even have travel packages for those not near a Doctor's office!

**Trific** · 02-03-2013, 01:37 PM

"is that 50mg of dhea and pregnenoloe a day??"------------------yes

5 mg cialis 2x a day might be a good idea as well....suppose to be able to purchase some legit ones from overseas, a 10mg for under a buck

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ialis-2x-a-day

The guys always suggest a bunch of vitamin D3 as well....

**kelkel** · 02-03-2013, 01:37 PM

Op I'm very sorry about your predicament and hope you can find responsible, affordable treatment near you. At that low a T level it just concerns me that there may be a pathology similar to the pituitary microadenoma that I discovered. Please do what you can under supervision.

But to your original question regarding AI's and HCG . Yes to the hcg and possibly for the AI. Only BW can determine your what your E2 level is although some sides (gyno) are felt and seen. More E2 issues are internal and not external. Best to start low with your T and do everything possible to mitigate the need for an AI. As I'm sure you've read here a twice per week protocol is the most effective for managing E2 as less injected at one time = less spike in E2 level.

Best of luck!

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 02:21 PM

thank you so much...very helpful..we will go on a twice a week regimen...and start low at 150 mg a week total.....
i will also look into the low t site you recommend...can someone post a link to their travel deal plan?

as for cialis....well he doesnt actually have a problem with erections or keeping them.....so at least thats not the issue....

he is on 5,000 iu of d3 a day ( will now do that with food) and zink, magnesium and vitamin c as well as fish oil capsuls, we inly use filtered water, homemade tooth paste, homemade laundry detergent, eco dish soap....yeah we are nuts to try and have a kid...

i will also start him on DHEA and the pregnalone.....we are ordering an online sperm test for at home ( cant afford 200 bucks for professional one) and was thinking of doing another one after....say 2 months?

**kelkel** · 02-03-2013, 02:27 PM

Honestly I would start at a lower dose. 150 is not low. Start at 100 split into 50 x 2 (saves $ too.) Give him the best chance to avoid E2 sides. More is not better here. Better is better. The lowtestosterone.com banner is at the top of the forum. Email and talk to them. Even if you were only able to start with them for a brief period at least you'd get a proper diagnosis and a good treatment plan to work off of? Just a thought! When it comes to low dose cialis, it's just a healthy thing to take for males.

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 02:35 PM

ah i read about the cialis!! increasng no2 in the bloodstream is awesome for health!!! while he has no erection issues i enjoyed the discussion there from otehrs on how great it is! any improvement in life and health for my hubby would be awesome!! so off to arr i go to check out theri prices..(HOLY CRAP 75 BUCKS A BOTTLE!)...if anyone has a better place that is cheaper please help me out...pm or whatever..thanks

**afira** · 02-03-2013, 02:37 PM

understood! will go down to 100 twice a week...thank you!

**HRTstudent** · 02-04-2013, 01:32 AM

If pregnancy is the goal, starting him on exogenous testosterone is not a good idea.

Low dose clomid, or HCG monotherapy are the go-to drugs for raising fertility in men. As a "side effect" they also raise testosterone.

**afira** · 02-04-2013, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Trific

"i also see other peoples regiment....should he take his test 2x a week so he wont need an AI?"

Welcome!
Yes, that's how to do it, you can just follow the regiment that is commonly suggested to others.
I would supplement both DHEA and Pregnenolone, 50mg each.
I suggest that it might be best not to go more than 100mg of test in the future weeks since you aren't gonna do BW for 8 weeks....so that he stands a better chance of not driving his E2 too high thus causing him problems.
It would be nice to see BW on his thyroid too.
Maybe you could hold off for just a bit on HCG since it's caused him trouble in the past and bring it on board when he is feeling better.

this is exactly what we are going to do..thank you so much for your helpful answer....dhea and pregnenolone and zink ordered ( figured zink couldnt hurt, maybe help sperm production) are going to wait a few weeks on the hcg ....if he has any signs of lowering sperm count( getting an at home test we can do ourselves and repeat) we will add it...so thank you so much! i would also like to add that we are not hacks at this....we are college graduates and know how to do research and understand other research as well, honestly i am sick of how doctors have treated us, and to get effective answeres for many of our helath problems i have had to do our own research and get our prescriptions from other places. just like so many reports on here of men with very low T counts, bu their docs say they are in normal ranges and wont prescribe fro them, bullshit! im too old to have people treat me thsi way anymore. so thank you again.

**kelkel** · 02-04-2013, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by afira

understood! will go down to 100 twice a week...thank you!

to be clear. Not 100 twice per week. 100mg total per week split into injections of 50mg every 3.5 days.

**steroid.com 1** · 02-04-2013, 09:16 AM

This is EXACTLY what I mean when I say you can't use any "medical advise" given to you on here.

When your husband starts with exogenous testosterone he will go into HPTA suppression meaning his testicles will cease to function almost immediately!!!!

That means no sperm production among a host of other things.

He will need HCG to keep his testicles functioning but note that many men see lower sperm production when on a TRT protocol due to HPTA suppression even when HCG is added in.

But that being said, TRT is not a fertility protocol...what HRT suggested is more along the lines of what is needed for fertility.

I don't mean any disrespect but if you are not a licensed medical clinician anything you do is not only illegal but down right dangerous...you're screwing around with controlled substances that are very powerful and can cause serious harm.

**afira** · 02-04-2013, 09:24 AM

yes i understand its 50 mg twice a week.....and gdevine i understand that you need to legally cover your butt for these boards.....i understand....all this is just advice....its not medical advice...again im here for help not to get people in trouble...or be one of those peopel trolling boards to try and sue people......theres nutjobs out there..i understand..im not one of em ok??? my husband has 0 sex drive....a baby is not gona happen that way either.....and honestly.....id rather at least have my husband.....he has no energy to exercise to loose the weight he desperately needs to loose......thats why im here.

when we get all these stupid hoops jumped through to the satisfaction of an uncaring medical system..we will get in to a doc asap...until then...we have tons of online places to do cheap tests for his e2 and T levels.....its only been 4 days and he is already waking up..having more energy..better moods.....and is actually noticing i have feelings again......i cant wait for what happens in the next 2 more weeks!

i lookes at the tests the gp did on him and the thyroid is normal, cortisol is normal, tsh normal ( if not on a slightly low side but ok imo) total test was 188 ( definately low but not 98 as i thought before)..everything else looks normal.....sending out soon for an e2 test. can someone please tell me what do i mix the hcg with? how much do i put in the bottle? and on an insulin syringe how much would 250 i.u's of hcg be? about how long does a bottle of 5000 i.u's last as well?
thanks

**steroid.com 1** · 02-04-2013, 09:40 AM

If you said you've been doing your research you'd know the answers to your questions; most of what you need are at the top of the forum in the stickies noted as Important...see the HCG post.

You must know that I do not condone what you are doing; there are Doctor's out there that will help you and more importantly, correctly, if you sought them out.

BTW, if are using the reference ranges to determine what is normal when you review the labs know that many if not most of those ranges are considered my many here as outdated and incorrect.

**kelkel** · 02-04-2013, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

If you said you've been doing your research you'd know the answers to your questions; most of what you need are at the top of the forum in the stickies noted as Important...see the HCG post.

You must know that I do not condone what you are doing; there are Doctor's out there that will help you and more importantly, correctly, if you sought them out.

BTW, if are using the reference ranges to determine what is normal when you review the labs know that many if not most of those ranges are considered my many here as outdated and incorrect.

Soooo true.

**afira** · 02-05-2013, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Soooo true.

yes totally understand..have come across many threads discussing what proper levels are considered...dont always match up with what docs say....i had to look around to 3 different docs to finall get one that understood i am hypothyroid...a big cause of my infertility....without my own research and making them listen...i would still be sleepwalking through life..and one step behind in trying for us to get a kid....

but iwwant to be clear guys....we are hoping and trying all we can to have a kid......but after 10 years....i dont think its gona happen.....but i can have a happy hubby and a good sex life.....thats my main goal here guys.....anyway we turn in more paperwork tomorrow....hopefully this time we will be approved so he can imediately be referred to an endo....who will listen to us and do the test we demand and help us with suppliments like hcg along with test...and possibly an ai as well.....since hubby has belly fat and overweight...so until the energy kicks in from test suppliment and he can loose the weight..he will be protected from too much e2 in his system....

**cj111** · 02-05-2013, 03:38 PM

I've always been curious about something , is low testosterone hereditary? Or is it related to how you treat your body as you're growing up..ie alcohol bad food choics ect ect, or something else totally unrelated?

**afira** · 02-12-2013, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by cj111

I've always been curious about something , is low testosterone hereditary? Or is it related to how you treat your body as you're growing up..ie alcohol bad food choics ect ect, or something else totally unrelated?

its just my opinion that perhaps both could happen? but i think its mainly what is in your genes.

**Trific** · 02-12-2013, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by cj111

I've always been curious about something , is low testosterone hereditary? Or is it related to how you treat your body as you're growing up..ie alcohol bad food choics ect ect, or something else totally unrelated?

Sometimes low test is because of trauma...either to the testes, the pituitary or the hypothalamus.,

**HRTstudent** · 02-12-2013, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by cj111

I've always been curious about something , is low testosterone hereditary? Or is it related to how you treat your body as you're growing up..ie alcohol bad food choics ect ect, or something else totally unrelated?

Definitely both... as with just about everything we are learning about genetics and human physiology.

Nutrition has a huge part in everything about us. It would be pretty easy for me to design a "protocol" to bring a normal, healthy male with a 700 T level down a few hundred points or more.

it would include things like gaining lots of bodyfat, avoiding sun, avoiding exercise, lots of processed foods, etc etc. Even good genetics can't overcome rotten nutrition and lifestyle.

**dreadnok89** · 02-13-2013, 09:30 AM

Even with low test you still could be fertile. As long as an erection is possible i would just try having a kid first then hrt.

**afira** · 02-13-2013, 11:04 AM

yeah we would like that..but as i have said.......no sex drive...too tired fro anything...he comes home from class and takes a nap..cuz just sitting there is too much???? let alone exercise to loose weight or have sex......this is our only hope to get that corrected so we can start having sex to try for a baby..seriously

we added hcg to our protocol.....am hoping that wioll help....the dhea and pregnanalone will be here soon...zinc he is alreayd on....we dont eat any processed food....organic and or at least homemade....tons of other vitamins.....b-100, maca, bee propolis and royal jelly........weve tried it all

**dreadnok89** · 02-14-2013, 09:51 AM

I been where he is at.

**HRTstudent** · 02-14-2013, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by afira

yeah we would like that..but as i have said.......no sex drive...too tired fro anything...he comes home from class and takes a nap..cuz just sitting there is too much???? let alone exercise to loose weight or have sex......this is our only hope to get that corrected so we can start having sex to try for a baby..seriously

we added hcg to our protocol.....am hoping that wioll help....the dhea and pregnanalone will be here soon...zinc he is alreayd on....we dont eat any processed food....organic and or at least homemade....tons of other vitamins.....b-100, maca, bee propolis and royal jelly........weve tried it all

going on testosterone in the hopes to conceive is quite ill-advised. trying to conceive is one of the very few contraindications to beginning testosterone replacement therapy. The HCG may be able to maintain fertility, although hcg can be tricky especially combined with testosterone in regards to rising estradiol levels.

What kind of doctor are you seeing? How much money to you have to spend on this medical endeavor?