When to add hcg and anti estrogen?

[cymru87]

I was reading Dr. Chrislers protocol, and be states that he doesn't start hcg or anti estrogen right away. He said he waits 6 weeks before initiating those. But I have also read that other guys start on test, anti estrogen and hcg all at the same time. My question is, when is the preferable time to start hcg and anti estrogen?

[Wes201]

I was reading Dr. Chrislers protocol, and be states that he doesn't start hcg or anti estrogen right away. He said he waits 6 weeks before initiating those. But I have also read that other guys start on test, anti estrogen and hcg all at the same time. My question is, when is the preferable time to start hcg and anti estrogen?

I think most members will agree to start cycle, ai and hcg all at the same time......IMO waiting 6 weeks to begin ai is a stupid and unessasary risk. It could already be to late by then. Gyno syptums may have already started by then.....Keep estrogen undercontrol from the beginning so it wont be an issue

[cymru87]

I think most members will agree to start cycle, ai and hcg all at the same time......IMO waiting 6 weeks to begin ai is a stupid and unessasary risk. It could already be to late by then. Gyno syptums may have already started by then.....Keep estrogen undercontrol from the beginning so it wont be an issue

I was thinking the same thing. Thanks

[Rusty11]

I think most members will agree to start cycle, ai and hcg all at the same time......IMO waiting 6 weeks to begin ai is a stupid and unessasary risk. It could already be to late by then. Gyno syptums may have already started by then.....Keep estrogen undercontrol from the beginning so it wont be an issue

While I agree with you regarding hCG , I would say that the best time to start a AI is when bw calls for it. How does anyone know without proper bw? I keep repeating this, but I see too many threads titled, "Help, I think I crashed my e2". The common factor is always starting/continuing a AI without bw to support it. Not everyone needs one. Some sooner. Some later. Some never. Just a thought...

[cymru87]

While I agree with you regarding hCG, I would say that the best time to start a AI is when bw calls for it. How does anyone know without proper bw? I keep repeating this, but I see too many threads titled, "Help, I think I crashed my e2". The common factor is always starting/continuing a AI without bw to support it. Not everyone needs one. Some sooner. Some later. Some never. Just a thought...

Good point. Thanks for the reply.

[Rusty11]

Btw, I should mention that my endo doesn't feel the need to check for estrogen issues, so I just do it on my own through labcorp. Kind of pricey at $65, but it gave me the peace of mind I needed.

[VTX1800]

I started on androgel for a month before switching to injectable cyp plus hcg and ai. But it was from switching to a new dr. Who actually knows about HRT. So technically I was started on an ai to prevent high estrogen and wi know where I Stand in 4 more weeks with my follow up appointment and BW. As you guys mentioned, WE r all different!

[Rusty11]

It's nice to have a knowledgable Dr. They are few and far between around here.

[2Sox]

I just started with a new clinic and got my first shot along with hcg and anastrozole. Just part of their protocol. I'm lucky because my blood work showed I definitely needed the ai due to previous treatment. Crazy thing is that this clinic ONLY tests for Total, Estradiol and PSA - Nothing else! Doesn't inspire confidence.

On the other hand, my urologist takes total blood work each month but NO estradiol - even though he prescribes TRT and implants Testopel. Go figure. At least if I put it all together I'll have the whole picture for myself.

[dreadnok89]

Hey rusty, how do you set that up with labcorp?

[Trific]

Hey rusty, how do you set that up with labcorp?

This site uses LabCorp, and I have the link keyed to the female hormone test which some guys use...have to see if they will change the estradiol test to "sensitive" though:

http://www.privatemdlabs.com/lab_tes...4&search=#1032

[Rusty11]

Hey rusty, how do you set that up with labcorp?

As stated above, through privatemedlabs. Go to the site, pick the test(s) you want, pick from a list of local labs, pay, copy bw sheet that is sent thru email, take to lab...and that's it. I have tested total T and estrodiol, sensitive(thats the estrogen test you want). Took about three days to get emailed results. Of course, if interested in other things, you can choose from a large menu of items.

[jimmyinkedup]

I was reading Dr. Chrislers protocol, and be states that he doesn't start hcg or anti estrogen right away. He said he waits 6 weeks before initiating those. But I have also read that other guys start on test, anti estrogen and hcg all at the same time. My question is, when is the preferable time to start hcg and anti estrogen?

perhaps he suggest this as a trt protocol so he can see where everything will stabilize before he just prescribes or recommends meds. He prob wants an accurate picture of what he is dealing with - does bloods - then addresses the hcg and ai .

[Rusty11]

perhaps he suggest this as a trt protocol so he can see where everything will stabilize before he just prescribes or recommends meds. He prob wants an accurate picture of what he is dealing with - does bloods - then addresses the hcg and ai .

Which makes so much more sense than just starting everything at once.

[steroid.com 1]

perhaps he suggest this as a trt protocol so he can see where everything will stabilize before he just prescribes or recommends meds. He prob wants an accurate picture of what he is dealing with - does bloods - then addresses the hcg and ai .

Exactly Jimmy, but John doesn't always set up his protocol this way.

He almost always adds HCG in right away; he is a HUGE advocate of HCG since once a man initializes exogenous Testosterone HTPA suppression commences. HCG not only keeps the testes functioning but HCG as an LH analog does all of the same thing and the body has LH receptors throughout so it has much more use that just keeping the testes in operating order.

In fact, he considers HCG a sex hormone believe it or not and that it has neuro effects as well.

[kelkel]

Exactly Jimmy, but John doesn't always set up his protocol this way.

He almost always adds HCG in right away; he is a HUGE advocate of HCG since once a man initializes exogenous Testosterone HTPA suppression commences. HCG not only keeps the testes functioning but HCG as an LH analog does all of the same thing and the body has LH receptors throughout so it has much more use that just keeping the testes in operating order.

In fact, he considers HCG a sex hormone believe it or not and that it has neuro effects as well.

Exactly. Said that here a bunch but people always think testicals only, and that's just nuts.....

[Rusty11]

Exactly. Said that here a bunch but people always think testicals only, and that's just nuts.....

Heh heh heh

<Rim Shot>

[HRTstudent]

I would never add an AI until you had symptoms and/or a bloodtest to confirm it was to high. But depending on the testosterone level, I might change that before going to an AI.

I think it's important for men on TRT to try to avoid an AI as much as possible. I've read some doctors who say ai's simply make some men feel worse, regardless of E2 impact.

[2Sox]

I think it's important for men on TRT to try to avoid an AI as much as possible. I've read some doctors who say ai's simply make some men feel worse, regardless of E2 impact.

HRT,
In what ways have men felt worse taking ai's?

[EverettCD]

As stated above, through privatemedlabs. Go to the site, pick the test(s) you want, pick from a list of local labs, pay, copy bw sheet that is sent thru email, take to lab...and that's it. I have tested total T and estrodiol, sensitive(thats the estrogen test you want). Took about three days to get emailed results. Of course, if interested in other things, you can choose from a large menu of items.

Hey Rusty,

What does that run $$$ you to have your labs done? Does insurance cover any of it?

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

[Rusty11]

No. I do it on my own. No ins involved. Not sure how that aspect of it works. Off the top of my head, i think total and free test around $45. E2 around $60.

[EverettCD]

No. I do it on my own. No ins involved. Not sure how that aspect of it works. Off the top of my head, i think total and free test around $45. E2 around $60.

Good to know. Thanks Rusty.

Sent from my iPhone that was manufactured in a sweat shop in China

[61er]

I'm 13 months into TRT and have no need for AI or HCG . I feel great, no atrophy, and blood work is fine. I may be lucky, or it may be a matter of time. Endo is fully aware of forum discussions, but recommends sticking to medical guidelines, which calls for HCG for fertility reasons only. Very few of his patients suffer from serious atrophy, he said.

[gymfu]

Exactly Jimmy, but John doesn't always set up his protocol this way.

He almost always adds HCG in right away; he is a HUGE advocate of HCG since once a man initializes exogenous Testosterone HTPA suppression commences. HCG not only keeps the testes functioning but HCG as an LH analog does all of the same thing and the body has LH receptors throughout so it has much more use that just keeping the testes in operating order.

In fact, he considers HCG a sex hormone believe it or not and that it has neuro effects as well.

I believe it. I can defiantly feel a difference when I'm on hcg or not. I used to cycle off hcg for a month every 3 or so.

[2Sox]

I'm 13 months into TRT and have no need for AI or HCG. I feel great, no atrophy, and blood work is fine. I may be lucky, or it may be a matter of time. Endo is fully aware of forum discussions, but recommends sticking to medical guidelines, which calls for HCG for fertility reasons only. Very few of his patients suffer from serious atrophy, he said.

It's very good that you feel so well. But one can't argue with the facts. TRT shuts down your body's ability to produce testosterone . From everything I've learned on this forum and elsewhere, the testes will atrophy to a degree and estradiol levels will rise inevitably. You may be asymptomatic but you've got to keep your eyes on this - and keep an open mind about addressing it. It' not only about shrinking stones. (G wrote about this a little in post #15 above) There are also stickies that go into this.

I've also learned that no matter how authoritative or knowledgeable a doctor may sound, it's surprising how utterly ignorant so many of them are about TRT and how so many stubbornly stick with incorrect or outdated practices. They are people with egos, just like us.

[bethdoth]

I had hoped to not have to use an ai or HCG because everything I have read said if you do sub Q you may not need it. I am 12 weeks in doing subQ and just got new labs Wednesday. My t is finally up in the 800's but my E2 was at 52. I have to admit that the last week I have not been sleeping as well (night sweats) and don't feel quite as motivated as previous weeks. It is time to start both.

[steroid.com 1]

I'm 13 months into TRT and have no need for AI or HCG . I feel great, no atrophy, and blood work is fine. I may be lucky, or it may be a matter of time. Endo is fully aware of forum discussions, but recommends sticking to medical guidelines, which calls for HCG for fertility reasons only. Very few of his patients suffer from serious atrophy, he said.

Read the sticky on HCG.

Exogenous Testosterone causes Secondary Hypogonadism via HPTA suppression...the testes shut down...it's a physiological fact.

The result; Testicular Atrophy.

[kelkel]

Wait till your doc is on TRT. He'll be on HCG right away! He's behind the times. Look up an HCG package insert on-line. Most say for Hypogonadic Hypogonadism.