Looking for some advice on bloodwork

**docjnsn** · 03-14-2013, 09:10 PM

Hi there everyone. Just started TRT using one of the online clinics and hoping that some of the more knowledgeable members can help out interpreting results and answer a few questions. Seems to be thousands of posts on this so I apologize if I'm asking some repeat questions.

First off the labs.
Cortisol 17.9 UG/DL 2.3-19.4
IGF1 199 NG/DL 69-226
Testosterone 616 NG/DL 348-1197
Free Testosterone 14.9 pg/ml 8.7-25.1
LH 6.1 miu/ml 1.7-8.6
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 58.6 nmol/l 16.5-55.9
Estradiol 19 pg/ml 7.6-42.6

There are several pages of other info so if anything else is needed let me know and I'll post it. I first looked into hormone replacement because of the usual symptoms, low energy, libido, trouble concentrating, testicular atrophy etc. I also had an unexplained weight loss several years ago which I have been unable to regain and doctors seem to dismiss (about 40lbs). Anyhow as you can see testosterone numbers seem to be okay for my age (39) which is really surprising because of my symptoms. When I took the questionnaire I would have sworn that I would have been at 200 or less especially since I feel so much better after starting on the testosterone.
Anyhow on to my questions

1. Has anyone seen or heard of anyone having these symptoms even with a testosterone level of 616? Is it possible that I naturally had a very high level and now at 616 am experiencing symptoms?

2. I'm currently using 100mg of testosterone cypionate , arimidex and 1000iu of HCG . all taken once a week along with daily DHEA, Milk Thistle, a prostate formula and a vegetable extract. Are these other supplements necessary or just another way for the clinic to make money? Anything else I should be adding for maximum benefit?

3. I have been on this for 4 wks and have noticed a significant improvement but don't feel quite as good as I'd like to. Is 4 weeks long enough to stabilize levels or will I continue to improve? I have another blood test scheduled and will post follow up results but what level should I be shooting for?

4. I'm a long way from this but after reading about it I've been considering doing a cycle or two of aas to regain some of my lost mass. Would this mess up what I'm doing now or could it be cycled in without too many side affects? Losing that much weight has always been a big dissapointment to me and it would be good to regain some or all of it and I haven't had any luck naturally.

5. Finally the cost of doing this has been pretty high. It's been worth it so far but can anyone give some recommendations on finding a dr. who would still treat someone who doesn't fall into the "low" category? I see the banner on this website that advertises for $199/mo but they don't have a location nearby. Can you just do a yearly visit with some local blood work and follow up by email or something?

Sorry for the long post and I'm sure some of these answers are already here but I'm hoping to get some good advice and this seems to be the best place to come.

Thanks

**austinite** · 03-14-2013, 10:05 PM

Hi doc!If you have the ranges for your bloodwork, please post them. Also, how long after you started treatment did you get this bloodwork?

1. It's possible to have levels in range and still experience some issues. This would require more bloodwork.

2. Yes, they are needed for most, but some can get away without an ai (arimidex ). Pregnenolone is also something you need to consider. Please read this sticky: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ou-should-know

3. For some it could take longer than 4 weeks. I'm a bit confused. You feel a significant difference but don't feel quite as good? What exactly do you feel is lacking? 100mg is a good dose for most and will get serum levels in the upper ranges for some.

4. Running a cycle right now (after being on treatment for 4 weeks) is a bit early. Not saying it harmful, but you should get your TRT dialed in first. You're still getting used to this

5. As for the banner, you can submit all your questions for their program here http://www.steroid.com/contact-low-testosterone.php

**Trific** · 03-15-2013, 12:12 AM

Welcome!
As I understand it your blood work was from just before you started TRT.
I have heard it's individual and that some don't feel good unless their total and free test are at high levels.
It doesn't sound like you are doing your own pins because it would be nice to split that 100mg into a 50mg dose every 3.5 days and take 250iu of HCG on MWF....doing both of those would help keep the E2 down and maybe like Austinite said you might not need an AI.
Sure, guys do cycles but later on in their journey after they have more things dialed in and figured out and it's easier to do when a guy's on TRT because he doesn't need to do a PCT after a cycle, just needs to go back to what was previously working for him.

Curious to know what your test and E2 levels are now. Any thyroid labs?

**docjnsn** · 03-15-2013, 08:46 AM

Thanks for the quick replies and the links I will look into them and adding the Pregnenolone.
As for the bloodwork this was done right before I started TRT and I haven't had any follow up yet. It's scheduled for next week so I will post the improvements when I get the results.
Here are my thyroid numbers from the first labs
TSH 1.36 uIU/ml 0.450-4.500
Thyroxine T4 9.7 ug/dl 4.5-12.0
T3 Uptake 33 24-39
Free Thyroxine 3.2 1.2-4.9
Triiodothyronine,
free serum 3.0 pg/ml 2.0-4.0

I do feel an improvement so far but still don't feel like my old self. I'm probably expecting too much too soon at this point but I just wanted some input on testosterone levels and if some people might need to be at a very high level to feel significant improvements.

I am doing my own pins so I can split it up into two doses but I'll wait until after my labs to see if I need to raise levels first. I only have enough needles to cover once a week but I'm sure I can get those easily enough.

Thanks again,

**Trific** · 03-15-2013, 08:58 AM

It would be nice if you could edit both of your previous posts and beside each lab value put in the lab range for them. It helps people when they are studying your posts.

I just got some pins yesterday....they were $00.1333 each.
Look forward to your new labs next week.

**Trific** · 03-15-2013, 11:58 PM

I pulled this from another post that Kelkel commented on since it fit you:

Your shbg is high. Add vit D3 to your protocol at maybe 5K IU's per day and test yours as well. It will lower your shbg and free up more test. Stinging Nettle Root will also help as can Avenacosides. Google them.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vit...hProfessional/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18400738

I'm curious on what others say about your labs....maybe if your high shbg had been discovered and addressed you might not have needed TRT...maybe you felt poorly because you didn't have enough free T...

**docjnsn** · 03-18-2013, 05:30 PM

For some reason only one link worked but was definitely interesting. It seems like it could be a vitamin D deficiency which would make sense since I don't get the amount of sunlight I used to and haven't been able to drink milk for the past few years because of allergies.

Anyone have any recommendations on what type/how much to start with??

Also I just took the second blood test and will post new results when I get them. Since I'm already on TRT how would I know if it's not needed after taking D3 for awhile?

**Trific** · 03-18-2013, 07:01 PM

Anyone have any recommendations on what type/how much to start with??

Kel suggests 5k of D3...it's cheap at the usual stores plus your doc could prescribe 50,000iu if you wanted.

Also I just took the second blood test and will post new results when I get them. Since I'm already on TRT how would I know if it's not needed after taking D3 for awhile?

If it was me I'd want the D up and the SHBG down and then I would try to determine if I wanted to go through a restart or PCT and see what my test level was after that.

**austinite** · 03-18-2013, 07:06 PM

^ thats what I do.

**kelkel** · 03-18-2013, 07:33 PM

Some good advice above doc. Personally I feel you should not have started TRT but clinics don't care as they are in the business of making money and keeping you coming back. Changes in supplementation and nutrition alone can make a difference in how you feel. Simply adding the micro'd dhea/preg as well as D3 could have made a big difference for you, it's just obviously not as quick.

You'll see changes in your levels, probably most notably with your shbg as the quickest way to reduce it is to add Test. E2 may also rise. Caveat is that your T levels were not bad and what your taking may just put you back in the same range as you started with only slight differences. You just won't know until BW comes back. It depends on your metabolism.

When it comes to gaining LBM back, visit the nutrition forum. Most people "think" they eat enouth to gain muscle but they really don't come close, otherwise they would! Regarding AAS. No. Not until you figure out what's going on the settle in. Then you need to maximize your potential first and foremost. Browse around the forums. Great info waiting for you.

Your best bet is a doc that understands hormones and can responsibly assess your need for TRT or lack therof. Post up your BW results when you get them please. On this thread.

And welcome!

kel

**docjnsn** · 03-19-2013, 02:12 AM

Thanks everyone, definitely getting some good advice and alternatives which is what I've been looking for. After reading the replies I'm starting to think I didn't need TRT either but I'll keep on it awhile to see how it goes for now. I've been doing a lot of reading on here but haven't had a lot of time and there is a LOT of information on this site.
As for doing a cycle of aas I'm a long way from that but want to look at possibilities going forward. I did work out consistently for about 10 years until I got sick a few years back so I do have a decent base to start from it's just been awhile.
I'll check out the nutrition forums like you recommended, allergic to eggs and dairy so hopefully there will be a few recommended diets without them.

Once again thanks for the help and I'll post new labs in a few days.

Doc.

**docjnsn** · 03-21-2013, 11:37 PM

Hi again,

Just got the results from my second round of bloodwork and it seems that not much has changed. The lab must be trying to save money since I only got results for the testosterone and estrogen and not shbg so I don't know how that's doing. I just added the vitamin D3 so I don't think that has made any difference yet either.

Here are the results
Testosterone 680 (ng/dl 348-1197)
Free Testosterone 15.5 (pg/ml 8.7-25.1)
Estradiol 27.5 (pg/ml 7.6-42.6)

Looks like Kelkel was right and that I might end up back where I started without any real improvements. I'm thinking this is probably why I felt a big improvement at first but then it seemed to taper off and I feel about the same as before.
Anyhow, the doctor has recommended I move up to .8cc of Testosterone Cypionate weekly ( which I will split into two doses as recommended here) and to leave the other stuff the same. Does anyone think this will have a lasting effect or will I just have a quick spike and then be back to where I started and have to add more? I'm okay with adding more Test if it will help but don't want to totally sterilize myself as we are still planning on having kids.

Thanks guys,

Doc