What's the avg. drop in Test levels between shots?

**badrad123** · 03-16-2013, 05:07 PM

I have a question, I'm curious to know what the avg. drop in testosterone levels should be between shots? I know everybody is different but I'm wondering if there is some kind of guideline to go by.

I inject e3d and am curious because I have seen my levels at 979 18 hours after an injection and 375 the day of the next injection. That seems like a huge swing in just 3 days.

I currently inject 37-38mg E3D subq. My starting level before going on TRT was sub 200s. No HCG (will try again hopefully) and use liquidex when needed.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!

**steroid.com 1** · 03-16-2013, 05:36 PM

For IM injections test will peak at about 72 hours from injection with a half life of about 5 to 6 days.

TD's obviously are consistent.

Haven't ready anything on SQ injections but given how the ester is cleaved it's probably close to IM.

**badrad123** · 03-16-2013, 05:56 PM

Thanks gdevine. Does a drop from 979 to 375 in 3 days seem unusual? I'm wondering if I need to change my E3D injection routine to EOD. Still trying to dial in.

Thanks again.

**steroid.com 1** · 03-16-2013, 06:15 PM

If you are injecting E3D I would suspect lab error...it happens.

That differential it way to wide.

**Times Roman** · 03-16-2013, 06:15 PM

I'm assuming we're talking about test e/c?

**badrad123** · 03-16-2013, 06:26 PM

Yes, Test Cyp.

**badrad123** · 03-16-2013, 06:28 PM

gd, that's what I was thinking. thanks.

**Peer** · 03-16-2013, 09:07 PM

Why not IM other than the obvious reason?
In my practice I have found significant variability in individuals in their levels with test cyp, certainly the frequency and dosing needs to be tailored to the individual.
As far as the subcutaneous administration I think it only increases your variability. Analogous to subcutaneous insulin where patients have differing blood flow to tissue in different anatomic locations. Also I am not sure if chronic test cyp can cause lipodistrophy of the subcutaneous tissue like insulin which requires site rotation.

**badrad123** · 03-17-2013, 06:15 AM

Thanks.

**Moparman** · 03-17-2013, 08:59 AM

My doc says do IM in the glute once a week. Says there's really no need to do it more often but if it makes me feel better have at it!!

So i tried to plot this out my curves seem to show that at full dose on day one, youll peak at day three and by day seven your T will still be at an adequate level (declining due to half life and expenditure). But if you split the dose your peak will be at half of what it could have been at full dose and on day 7 it would be lower than had u taken a full dose since the slope of decline would be the same. Seems to make sense. Sure your levels would vary less w more often shots but levels might be higher. I don't know. I'd like to see actual test results on a single person showing actual numbers

**GFA** · 03-17-2013, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Moparman

My doc says do IM in the glute once a week. Says there's really no need to do it more often but if it makes me feel better have at it!!

So i tried to plot this out my curves seem to show that at full dose on day one, youll peak at day three and by day seven your T will still be at an adequate level (declining due to half life and expenditure). But if you split the dose your peak will be at half of what it could have been at full dose and on day 7 it would be lower than had u taken a full dose since the slope of decline would be the same. Seems to make sense. Sure your levels would vary less w more often shots but levels might be higher. I don't know. I'd like to see actual test results on a single person showing actual numbers

IMO, Sub-Q sucks. Many others on this board reported similar findings. Too unreliable. I had 800+ Total test with IM, 1 shot a week 100mg. Switched to SC and it dropped to 300ish. Same dosing and testing schedule.

**badrad123** · 03-17-2013, 09:43 AM

Appreciate the feedback.

**steroid.com 1** · 03-17-2013, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Moparman

My doc says do IM in the glute once a week. Says there's really no need to do it more often but if it makes me feel better have at it!!

So i tried to plot this out my curves seem to show that at full dose on day one, youll peak at day three and by day seven your T will still be at an adequate level (declining due to half life and expenditure). But if you split the dose your peak will be at half of what it could have been at full dose and on day 7 it would be lower than had u taken a full dose since the slope of decline would be the same. Seems to make sense. Sure your levels would vary less w more often shots but levels might be higher. I don't know. I'd like to see actual test results on a single person showing actual numbers

On once a week IM injections I needed an AI to control aromitization.

On twice a week IM injections I don't need an AI to control Aromitization.

**Moparman** · 03-17-2013, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

On once a week IM injections I needed an AI to control aromitization.

On twice a week IM injections I don't need an AI to control Aromitization.

Wouldn't this support the theory that you'd have higher overall T levels w once a week shots?? My doc does prescribe anastazole along w the T and Hcg .

**Trific** · 03-17-2013, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Moparman

Wouldn't this support the theory that you'd have higher overall T levels w once a week shots?? My doc does prescribe anastazole along w the T and Hcg.

Once per week = higher temporary peak and lower low with lower average

**fireeater49** · 03-17-2013, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Moparman

Wouldn't this support the theory that you'd have higher overall T levels w once a week shots?? My doc does prescribe anastazole along w the T and Hcg.

Maybe the stability factor causes you not to need AI, big spikes (higher T levels out of range) might cause the aromitization process to spike also in response to the higher than normal range spike. With the reduced amt of test 2x week you might not spike out of the normal range thus no response for aromitization. I think of it like food sugar and insulin levels. You drink a coke and eat a candy bar your sugar spikes out of normal range, body senses it and dumps insulin. Whereas if you keep a constant lower levels like say a half of a coke and half a candy bar then maybe you drive up the range but not high enough for the body to dump insulin. So yes a large amount of test being dump will spike out of range (maybe temporary but for how long who knows) and the body responds to it. Followed by a smaller more frequent amount of test will raise levels but (maybe) not above range to where the body responds to it with aromitization. Its just a thought. I make no claims of being an expert but I do like to think through the process. Comments or corrections anyone?

**steroid.com 1** · 03-17-2013, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Moparman

Wouldn't this support the theory that you'd have higher overall T levels w once a week shots?? My doc does prescribe anastazole along w the T and Hcg.

Of course; been discussed here adnauseum.

**Peer** · 03-17-2013, 10:38 PM

again, there is large variability between individuals with test cyp IM, anectodally I find the more obese and older patients metabolize much slower. Either way smaller more frequent doses are going to give a more level serum testosterone level. Many docs prefer the topicals for this reason. Check out the serum concentration of axiron daily for a great example, it "peaks" at 2hr and slowly drops over 24hr. I stress to the topical patients not to miss doses. The topicals have some downsides too, the greatest being cost. Also improper application is problematic and there is also variability in dosing between patients.