Sub-Q Test C

[Tthomtst]

Hello everyone, I'm a new guy. I've been reading and researching Sub-q and as many before have mentioned. There isn't much info out there on sub-q T so I thought since I need more info on sub q, perhaps it's time I share what I've learned through the Ginny Pig protocol.

I've been on TRT for about 1.5 years and truthfully it's not been that great. I get my labs done regularly and E-2 has always been in line, about 22. Also, TT and FT good always near top of the range on day 7, the end of my weekly cycle. I was injecting IM 200mg CYP .5 weekly now I've decided to go Sub-q after seeing Dr. Crisler video.

Presently, it's been 16 days on sub-q and here's what I've observed.
I decided that I would change from IM 200mg CYP .5 weekly, to Sub-Q 100mg CYP .5 E3D. After the first sub-q, things were ok, after the second not so much and so on. The point is I believe that since sub-q T Inj is a slower release into the system, and if you’re going to switch to sub-q T then I suspect you’re going to bottom out during the "transition" period as I have.

After about 5 Inj sub-q, E3D which is a little over 2 weeks I was experiencing very low libido, about zero erections, and a fair amount of depression. So being the head Ginny, in the Ginny Pig Protocol, I instructed myself to adjust the protocol to 100mg .5 EOD.
I have no way to be sure but I think, at least for me there seems to be a "loading" period. In fact, there was a member here that shared a similar drop after his 2 weeks of subq. Eventually I suspect I will be able to adjust to every E3d or low mg's etc.

Also, I'm using a 29G .5 insulin pin, some bruising but if you heat the T it is greatly reduced, careful not to hot or you'll get a real "hot" shot.
Please feel free to comment, and I also hope this helps someone to get a little closer to where we're all trying to get.

I'm grateful for any and all guidance you can offer, and will continue to post my progress and lack thereof, and thanks for the helpful input!!

[bass]

SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS - THE CUTTING EDGE WITH DR. JOHN CRISLER - YouTube

[Tthomtst]

Thanks I've seen it. He's the one that got me going on my Sub-Q protocol. The problem is once you get going most Doc's aren't knowledgeable, so I'm using my wits and all the helpful guys on the boards to figure it out using myself. I plan to post my relevant findings, in a hope that it can help others looking for a easier and less costly experience, not to mention a smoother libido ride.

Needless to say I'm open to any assistance available.

Thanks Bass for the reply!!

Thom

[bass]

I been on SQ for more than a year and the results are better than when I was doing IM, others had the opposite experience. I just did some lab work today based on 60mg twice a week along with 250iu hCG twice a week. my test levels been really good and my e2 in control without using AI's, so we'll see what the latest test shows.

BTW, 100mgs EOD is insane!

[LowT Mike]

Sub Q injections are great. Theyve actually been using subq testosterone injections in pediatric endocrinology for over 20 years. absorption is great. One thing to bear in mind is dont grab a big roll of fat if you have a big spare tire. absorption can be slower. Try to move higher on the abdomen or just above the knee. 1/2 inch area of fat. My 2 cents.

[Tthomtst]

Thanks Mike! A great tip, please check when you have a chance. I'll be updating my success and challenges, for all to read in an effort to help unravel the benefits of Sub-Q T'. Mike if your experiences are like mine, and many others we seem to learn more here, from each other than when we see our doctors. I know the last Doc I saw which was only last week, basically asked me to leave his office when I mentioned Sub-Q he said "I don't do that" and returned my co-payment and sent me on my way, truly.

I really don't understand what's happened to doctors these days. But these boards I think are a good place to learn and be our own advocate, so again thanks for the tip!!

Have a great one!!

Thom

[ZenFitness]

Does the dosage typically change SQ?

[Times Roman]

Sub Q injections are great. Theyve actually been using subq testosterone injections in pediatric endocrinology for over 20 years. absorption is great. One thing to bear in mind is dont grab a big roll of fat if you have a big spare tire. absorption can be slower. Try to move higher on the abdomen or just above the knee. 1/2 inch area of fat. My 2 cents.

when I first started on TRT a few years ago, my doc, curiously enough, was injecting SubQ. When I called him on it, he said he was pinning me IM, but shallow. So I began to really pay attention, and it was SubQ, regardless what he was saying.

[Tthomtst]

Hey Bass:
I know 100mg .5 Sub-Q sounds insane but there is a bigger picture as I see it, and have been told by others. Here's the thinking, when starting a Sub-Q protocol there is a major absorption factor to consider for the first 2-3 weeks.

For example, if you were incline to use pellets, another version of sub-Q delivery your doc would tell you to continue you regular IM protocol, for about 2-3 weeks. So in effect one could make the case that it would be insane to be on pellets and weekly IM. But when you factor in the absorption rate it's nothing more than bridging the gap from fast IM to slow Sub-Q.

You make an excellent point for our friends who will read these posts, so it's important to point out as I mentioned in my original post, that one will need to reduce dosage, something like what your doing 50-60mg, but initially there will be a "crash" if you just quit IM and start Sub-Q. As you know, IM right in to blood stream vs. Sub-Q s l o w l y working through fat, that's a big gap in experience. So to counter the major drop in libido, depression etc. we use a higher Sub-Q dose initially similar to the IM weekly and then taper to avoid the crash we can achieve a smoother landing, a smother experience.

Remember we're not getting a spike from Sub-q so e-2 will be ok, and as you feel the T benefiting you, you can taper.

Thanks again Bass!!

[Tthomtst]

Hey Zen, and yes. As you know everybody is different but I hear maintenance dosing is around .40mg to 100mg, then it's a matter of EOD, E3D or weekly your choice. If you have a second read my post to Bass, it might be helpful.

Have a good on!!

Thom

[Tthomtst]

Hey Mike I like the new look, you seem taller!! :-)

[LowT Mike]

when I first started on TRT a few years ago, my doc, curiously enough, was injecting SubQ. When I called him on it, he said he was pinning me IM, but shallow. So I began to really pay attention, and it was SubQ, regardless what he was saying.

Funny you mention that. Men "thinking" they are doing sub actually never get into the muscle but it dosent really matter because absorption is still great. Some of my "mad scientist" colleagues have done studies with patient groups and used open CT scanners to take saggital images when they inject IM gluteal. Guess what?? More than half never got into the muscle. hahaha. They had been doing it for years this way and had optimal T serum.

[Tthomtst]

Hey Mike, thanks for the info very helpful. You seem to actually know something about this whole Sub-Q method. I was injecting 200mg .5 Cyp IM weekly, HCG 3x weekly and was doing ok but just ok, and since I had 2 bad experiences injecting myself I was delighted to learn about Sub-Q. Here's my challenge I've been injecting 100mg .5 Cyp Sub-Q EOD for almost 3 weeks and I'm basically dead in the water, although some minor signs of life.

When I made the switch I experienced a fair amount of depression, just ask my dog, and my libido well what libido. However, in the past day or so the depression has improved, also confirmed by the dog, but that's pretty much it. Please keep in mind that I wasn't doing very well on IM in spite of good labs.

My instinct is to increase my dose but that seems irresponsible. My labs were taken about a week before I began Sub-Q and all was well. E-2 was 22 T and free T top of the range, and yet I'm dead in the water, got any thoughts?



Thanks

Thom

[LowT Mike]

Hmm. I was thinking at first you are doing way too much T. 300mg per week. Thats superphysiological for sure. Be careful. I don't recommend going over 200mg per week. Whats your Total and Free T and Albumin. I can calculate you SHBG if you dont have it.

[Tthomtst]

5/3/13
Free T 37.8 Range 7.2-24

TT 1172 Range 348-1197

E-2 22 Range7.6-42.6

SHBG 32.8 Range19.376.4

No score for Albumin

Thanks for taken a look..:-)

[SEOINAGE]

Ok here's some info or personal experience and what I would suggest. The first time I tried subq and it didn't work I just swapped from twice weekly IM injections to twice weekly subq, and lowered my dose slightly as the doctor suggested lowering anyways based on level. I didn't stick with it, didn't work whatever you want to call it. I thought same as you maybe it was because it takes longer to get to your level. But anyways I went back to IM.

Well this last time I switched to subq, I have stuck with it. My T was already elevated from a blast. I started subq doing 60 mg EOD, which turns out to 210 a week, so over my normal 200 a week. Then I dropped it down to 50 mg EOD, then I further dropped it down to 40 mg EOD. I bumped it back up to 50 mg EOD after that, and have been on that dose for a while now. Going to do blood work soon. Seems to be working just fine.

My suggestions would be to split it up more, inject it more frequently and it should help you feel better without going superphysiological. I would even attempt at reducing your dose, with the frequent protocol your lows from before will be much higher. You can even inject daily if you like.

[Tthomtst]

S you think 50 EOD, about 150mg a week? Perhaps I should I wait a few days and let things cool down? I ask because I was not doing that well at 200mg weekly IM and both T scores were high, in fact FT was way out on the high side. So maybe I've be taking to much all along IM and Sub-Q which could explain everything, besides I have no other direction to go.

Hey Mike thanks for doing this!!

[Tthomtst]

Join Date:May 2013Location:KC, MOPosts:11




S you think 50 EOD, about 150mg a week? Perhaps I should I wait a few days and let things cool down? I ask because I was not doing that well at 200mg weekly IM and both T scores were high, in fact FT was way out on the high side. So maybe I've be taking to much all along IM and Sub-Q which could explain everything, besides I have no other direction to go.

Hey Mike thanks for doing this!!

I didn't mean to double post....

[SEOINAGE]

50 mg a week rounds out to 175 mg a week. Could start there, and then move down to to 40 mg a week for 140 total a week. Just depending on how you feel. Are you taking HCG ? it really helped me feel better, I also had some issues 8 months into trt, and I found occasional blood donation made them go away, or else something else was part of it, or I got used to it I dunno, but doing pretty good now. The first blood donation was a dramatic difference.

[Tthomtst]

S you think 50 EOD, about 150mg a week? Perhaps I should I wait a few days and let things cool down? I ask because I was not doing that well at 200mg weekly IM and both T scores were high, in fact FT was way out on the high side. So maybe I've be taking to much all along IM and Sub-Q which could explain everything, besides I have no other direction to go.

Hey Mike thanks for doing this!!

[Tthomtst]

Thanks for the very helpful input. I hate to get on a rant about TRT Doc's since we've all been there done that, but if nothing else I'm a walking example of just how difficult it is to get proper advice. Ok, that's enough of that. I'm very glad you shared that the .50 is ok to start since my syringes are pre-loaded at 100mg so I can make it work by pushing 1/2even though I'll waste 50% small price to pay to get even and learn.

I do use HGC, 1250 x 3 weekly try to inject on opposite days of T. Do you think since I'm w a y over on T I should chill for a few days before I go .50mg x 3?

Like you I donate blood when my Hematocrit get's up around high 40's low 50's. It seems I've learned everything except dosing and now thanks to you I've taken the first helpful step in that direction, and maybe get my social life going again. Honestly I never knew that to much T was a problem as long as E-2 was in line.

Ok a Doc slam story, truthful story. This most recent visit about 2 weeks ago, I asked for dosing for my first attempt at Sub-Q. I was injecting 200mg .5 IM weekly. So here's how my doc fills my Sub-Q script this is the truth.......200mg .5 x3 weekly Cyp 600mg!!!!! I had to fight to get it down to 100mg EOD oh well I guess $250 for 15 min doesn't get what it use to.

Thanks again I appreciate the guidance, I feel like I should send you my insurance card with co-pay!! :-)