HCG question ???

**Warrior1700** · 06-21-2013, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc

I personally don't think it matters much but Crisler's hcg dosing model is to boost natural test levels when the exogenous test is at its lowest. He first recommended that hcg be taken the last two days before injection (based on a once per week injection model) and then switched to the day before and the day of injection. I might have that backwards. If your injecting twice a week, I guess following the same reasoning, you'd do hcg either the day of or the day before injection. But when injecting twice a week with cyp or enan, I can't see it making a big difference. Personally, I would space it out for fear of conversion to estrogen, as hcg can increase aromatase levels - although some say that hcg only increases aromatase in the testicles.

I am inj Cyp ew, so I guess it doesn't matter when I inj HCH once I start it up agian? I pin cyp on Tues, so perhaps 500 iu HCG on Fri and Mon? or should I split it up to 250 3x ew? See how I feel then? Either way, no one is inj HCG day of test though right?

**Warrior1700** · 06-21-2013, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Crisler is two days before and the day before. But IMO, what's the difference. Most guys on the forum are all over the place with dosing. I couldn't tell the difference in myself between 100iu a day and 250iu a day. Now I'm on 250iu EOD, sometimes ED, depending on my mood. ;-) I guess it comes down to comfort and cost but with overseas pharmacies, cost is negligible.

So you are using 1000 iu ~ 1750 iu ew?

**2Sox** · 06-21-2013, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by roxer

I started this out with 200 and 300 levels before TRT. I got tired of the gel thing and my doctor said he would try clomid for 6 months. Never got over 300 on it. At least the boys are generating something? Now on shots and HCG, but I am having issues getting my doctor to check my levels again. He says I am fine at 556. I feel blah and now have ED.

Find another doctor.

**AnabolicDoc** · 06-21-2013, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by roxer

I started this out with 200 and 300 levels before TRT. I got tired of the gel thing and my doctor said he would try clomid for 6 months. Never got over 300 on it. At least the boys are generating something? Now on shots and HCG, but I am having issues getting my doctor to check my levels again. He says I am fine at 556. I feel blah and now have ED.

I meant what was your original LH.

As far as your ED, maybe your e2 is elevated. How much test and hcg do you take and how often? Why won't your doc check, are you on a HMO?

**AnabolicDoc** · 06-21-2013, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Warrior1700

I am inj Cyp ew, so I guess it doesn't matter when I inj HCH once I start it up agian? I pin cyp on Tues, so perhaps 500 iu HCG on Fri and Mon? or should I split it up to 250 3x ew? See how I feel then? Either way, no one is inj HCG day of test though right?

No you misread my posts. I said I would use HCG at 500iu 2x per week only in light of the recent study (that I posted back in March). As far as dosing hcg, Crisler (who's practices I don't really care for, mostly bc his practices are geared to increase revenue however possible) recommends that you dose hcg at 250iu on the two days before injection or the day before injection and the day of injection. I forget which was his initial dosing model and which is the newer one. I think 2Sox clarified it a few posts back.

**Warrior1700** · 06-21-2013, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc

No you misread my posts. I said I would use HCG at 500iu 2x per week only in light of the recent study (that I posted back in March). As far as dosing hcg, Crisler (who's practices I don't really care for, mostly bc his practices are geared to increase revenue however possible) recommends that you dose hcg at 250iu on the two days before injection or the day before injection and the day of injection. I forget which was his initial dosing model and which is the newer one. I think 2Sox clarified it a few posts back.

I was kind of combining your post with 2Sox as he doses completely diff. Yes I agree that Chrisler is all about revenue, (it was the day beofer and the day of, now it 2 days prior and one day before according to his last update. So I will stick with that protocol then , 500iu 2 days, then one day prior to Cyp. Thanks

**dreadnok89** · 06-21-2013, 05:22 PM

how would you k now if your primary? and why the heck havent any of my doctors check that out?

**2Sox** · 06-21-2013, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by dreadnok89

how would you k now if your primary? and why the heck havent any of my doctors check that out?

Great question. I think the answer is that doctors are just people with licenses to practice medicine - some good, some bad. And like some people, the can be careless and unethical.

I'm pretty pissed that when I started TRT last July, my doc didn't test me to find out if I had primary or secondary. And I didn't know enough at the time to even ask! So how do I find out now? I don't. Unless someone else has a suggestion.

**Ryanmcd** · 06-21-2013, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc

No you misread my posts. I said I would use HCG at 500iu 2x per week only in light of the recent study (that I posted back in March). As far as dosing hcg, Crisler (who's practices I don't really care for, mostly bc his practices are geared to increase revenue however possible) recommends that you dose hcg at 250iu on the two days before injection or the day before injection and the day of injection. I forget which was his initial dosing model and which is the newer one. I think 2Sox clarified it a few posts back.

I was a patient of Crisler and you got that right, I was on the DHEA gel HCG and preg. Also his HCG from the pharm says its only good for 3 months and everything else I get is at least a year. I know he gets a kickback from it because HCG does nothing for me, as in brings my test lvls up 0 and my balls never shrank but he had me on it daily, I stopped it now and feel 0 diff. I think we have lots of people that take this and don't need it.

**powerlifterty16** · 06-22-2013, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanmcd

I was a patient of Crisler and you got that right, I was on the DHEA gel HCG and preg. Also his HCG from the pharm says its only good for 3 months and everything else I get is at least a year. I know he gets a kickback from it because HCG does nothing for me, as in brings my test lvls up 0 and my balls never shrank but he had me on it daily, I stopped it now and feel 0 diff. I think we have lots of people that take this and don't need it.

i have always wondered how crisler can have time for all of his patients for followup care when he has such a busy office there. I'm not a fan of him either. I've been banned from his forum 2-4 times. He is a complete dick. I also dont think his vids are really professional..saying things like ''mancave'' ''the needle hurts but man up'' or taking his shirt off and doing the shots for himself.
He does seem pretty knowledgable though...but the question remains..why is he a DO and not an md? Noone chooses to be a DO

**zillagod** · 06-22-2013, 02:25 PM

....

**Rusty11** · 06-22-2013, 02:28 PM

Why do you keep getting banned from his forum?LOL!!

**2Sox** · 06-22-2013, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

i have always wondered how crisler can have time for all of his patients for followup care when he has such a busy office there. I'm not a fan of him either. I've been banned from his forum 2-4 times. He is a complete dick. I also dont think his vids are really professional..saying things like ''mancave'' ''the needle hurts but man up'' or taking his shirt off and doing the shots for himself.
He does seem pretty knowledgable though...but the question remains..why is he a DO and not an md? Noone chooses to be a DO

There are many people who are "complete dicks" who can often be very useful and productive. Just imagine how much more productive and useful they could be if they weren't "complete dicks".

**powerlifterty16** · 06-22-2013, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by iamgodzilla

Powerlifterty16, so if you applied broadly, as one should when going through the med school application process, and were accepted to, lets say two medical schools. The DO school gave you a full ride, while the MD school would put you a quarter million in debt, which school would you choose.. Now remember the only difference between the two is the two letters behind your name, you can both go to the same residencies fellowships etc etc... Except the guy who took the free ride to the DO school also can go to DO only residencies, AND MD residencies...Hmmm

Not in any way standing up for Dr. Crisler, as i think he is shady as hell.... Just standing up for the people who do choose to become a DO.. because people do. and to imply that something is wrong, as in someone may be less knowledgeable in the field of medicine because of the two letters behind their name, is just ignorant..

Not bashing you in anyway, just bashing the fact that you said "Noone chooses to be a DO"..

i dont think being a DO makes you any less knowledgeable..as the curriculum are similar..but it shows that the dr most likely wasnt appealing enough in highschool and college to get in to the md programs. If im going to drive to crisler's state and give him 600 bucks(or any doc for that matter)..i want to know that he was at the top of class, and this and that.

Here's the thing though..with trt, this stuff doesnt matter too much. It's more about being an outside thinker(which i think is a strength for do's) , and i think crisler is knowledgeable on the stuff.

To answer your question....if the MD school was a good md school, i wouldnt mind being in debt. The two letters are very important imo. I am one of those people who go onto my insurance's provider directory, and enter every name on the list into vitals.com and compare everything from years of experience, board certified or not, md vs do, medical school, organization memberships etc.

i' a hypocrite though, because the endo im seeing in august went to a foreign school...but she had good reviews, and it says she deals with reproductive endocronology so im hoping she is not just a thyroids dr.

**dreadnok89** · 06-22-2013, 11:20 PM

Ya I been using hcg and haven't noticed a damn thing. Still have small balls. Was wondering if my estrogen is too high. Is there anything else to take to improve your balls?