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  1. #1
    2Sox's Avatar
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    Test Receptor Site Desentization - an interesting concept

    Just this morning I had an interesting conversation with my doctor. I told him that the Androgel didn't seem to be working as well and I was considering shots. (He is a great advocate for shots.) I'll try to relay here how he described why this happens: The body is not meant to have a steady state of T in the bloodstream. Constancy is not normal. The body naturally has highs and lows. Gels give a constant supply to the T receptor sites and if there this constant supply, the sites don't have a chance to refresh and they then become desensitized. (Why look for things to eat if you're full!) The result is that your benefits level off and you don't feel that sweet spot feeling. You remain on the high side of mediocre. Everything is just "okay".

    With shots, your body is able to have more of the rising and falling in regards to T levels. This made sense to me.

    What is interesting is that this directly contradicts John Crisler's philosophy. Crisler believes that transdermals are the gold standard - if a man responds to them - they mimic the rhythms of a young man and they are the best way to go. He says shots mimic the rhythms of and old man and pellets - well, mimic the rhythms of no one.

    I had another idea related to this; There has been a recent trend in dividing the weekly T dose into two doses to make for a more steady state release. For example, taking two shots of 50mg every 3.5 days to equal 100mg per week. AND the trend has been to inject SubQ to make for even more of that steady state release. If my doctor's theory is correct, is this not self defeating - also increasing the chances for T site desensitization?

    I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.

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    wouldnt gels give more rising and falling, as they mimic the body, and t shots are naturally always the same throughout?

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    chi's Avatar
    chi
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    I don't agree with this personally because I feel the best when my levels have been the same, or stabilized mind you, rather then changing my dose up or down. I guess that would directly relate to levels rising and falling in a way.

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    jimmyinkedup is offline Disappointment* Known SCAMMER - Do Not Trust *
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    Androgen receptors double in life expectancy and almost double in rate of production in the presence of androgens. Meaning - well I disagree with your Dr.

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    I prefer shots because I can better control the dosing that goes into me.. with the gels sometimes you pump correctly but sometimes the pump would get stuck, nothing would come out or only a little would come out so you had to pump again, plus when you're rubbing it on you just don't know how much is going to be absorbed..

    With injections you know exactly how much is going into you and it's more constant, yes probably more peaks and valleys UNLESS you're taking HCG and an AI like liquidex which both raise your test levels so it's even more of a steady level throughout the week.

    Am I wrong?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlifterty16 View Post
    wouldnt gels give more rising and falling, as they mimic the body, and t shots are naturally always the same throughout?
    The answer is no. Daily gel application doesn't give any chance for any half life to kick in. It's always "on". By their very nature, weekly shots take advantage of the concept of half life.

  7. #7
    HRTstudent's Avatar
    HRTstudent is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sox View Post
    Just this morning I had an interesting conversation with my doctor. I told him that the Androgel didn't seem to be working as well and I was considering shots. (He is a great advocate for shots.) I'll try to relay here how he described why this happens: The body is not meant to have a steady state of T in the bloodstream. Constancy is not normal. The body naturally has highs and lows. Gels give a constant supply to the T receptor sites and if there this constant supply, the sites don't have a chance to refresh and they then become desensitized. (Why look for things to eat if you're full!) The result is that your benefits level off and you don't feel that sweet spot feeling. You remain on the high side of mediocre. Everything is just "okay".

    With shots, your body is able to have more of the rising and falling in regards to T levels. This made sense to me.

    What is interesting is that this directly contradicts John Crisler's philosophy. Crisler believes that transdermals are the gold standard - if a man responds to them - they mimic the rhythms of a young man and they are the best way to go. He says shots mimic the rhythms of and old man and pellets - well, mimic the rhythms of no one.

    I had another idea related to this; There has been a recent trend in dividing the weekly T dose into two doses to make for a more steady state release. For example, taking two shots of 50mg every 3.5 days to equal 100mg per week. AND the trend has been to inject SubQ to make for even more of that steady state release. If my doctor's theory is correct, is this not self defeating - also increasing the chances for T site desensitization?

    I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.
    this depends on how your doctor does shots.

    I have heard something like this talked about before, but it wa with doctors who use infrequent injections such as once every 2-3 weeks. at 2-3 weeks there isn't much testosterone from a single 200mg injection left. So, it MIGHT be possible that at this point the body wants to increase testosterone production.

    now, with injections at once or twice a week, you're not getting anywhere near this point. You will have supressed lh and fsh throughout and your T levels will be pretty stable around your target point.

    but with gels, you're getting a daily rise and fall and never allowing your body to see a constant supply of testosterone. I'm not sure why your doctor would even say this. even the literature in an androgel Rx shows you very clear graphs that the T levels rise and drop off precipitously.

    but the end game here is,what makes the patient feel better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chi View Post
    I don't agree with this personally because I feel the best when my levels have been the same, or stabilized mind you, rather then changing my dose up or down. I guess that would directly relate to levels rising and falling in a way.
    Your dose can be the same but if you're injecting once a week your levels are indeed rising and falling because of half life. Or do I misunderstand what you mean?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRTstudent View Post
    this depends on how your doctor does shots.

    I have heard something like this talked about before, but it wa with doctors who use infrequent injections such as once every 2-3 weeks. at 2-3 weeks there isn't much testosterone from a single 200mg injection left. So, it MIGHT be possible that at this point the body wants to increase testosterone production.

    now, with injections at once or twice a week, you're not getting anywhere near this point. You will have supressed lh and fsh throughout and your T levels will be pretty stable around your target point.

    but with gels, you're getting a daily rise and fall and never allowing your body to see a constant supply of testosterone. I'm not sure why your doctor would even say this. even the literature in an androgel Rx shows you very clear graphs that the T levels rise and drop off precipitously.

    but the end game here is,what makes the patient feel better?
    HRT,

    Can you clarify your statements I have bolded above? I'm not sure I understand. Thanks.

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