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Thread: looks like more dumb guys abuse AAS than smart guys!

  1. #1
    HRTstudent's Avatar
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    Exclamation looks like more dumb guys abuse AAS than smart guys!

    lol... ok, so that was a rather "sensational" title, but I just wanted to share this rather interesting abstract that was published last month.





    Anabolic steroid -induced hypogonadism in young men.


    PURPOSE:

    Use of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) has not been traditionally discussed in mainstream medicine. With the increased diagnosis of hypogonadism, a very heterogeneous population of men is now being evaluated. Within this larger population of patients, the existence of anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism (ASIH), whether transient or permanent, should now be considered.

    MATERIALS AND METHODS:

    An initial retrospective database analysis of all patients (2005-2010, n=6033) seeking treatment for hypogonadism was conducted. Subsequently, an anonymous survey was distributed in 2012 to established patients undergoing testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).

    RESULTS:

    Profound hypogonadism, defined as a testosterone =50 ng/dL, was identified in 1.6% (n=97) of the large retrospective cohort initially reviewed. The most common etiology was prior AAS exposure, identified in 43% (42/97) of men. Because of this surprising data, a follow-up anonymous survey of our current hypogonadal patient population (n=382; mean age 49.2Ī13.0 years) was then performed which identified 20.9% of patients (n=80; mean age 40.4Ī8.4 years) with prior AAS exposure. Hypogonadal men <50 years old were greater than 10 times more likely to have prior AAS exposure than men >50 (OR 10.16, 95% CI 4.90-21.08). Prior AAS use was significantly negatively correlated with education level (ρ=-0.160, p=0.002) and number of children (ρ=-0.281, p<0.0001).

    CONCLUSIONS:


    Prior AAS use is common in young men seeking treatment for symptomatic hypogonadism, and ASIH is the most common etiology of profound hypogonadism. These findings suggest a necessary refocused approach in the evaluation and treatment paradigms of young hypogonadal men.

    Anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism in young men. [J Urol. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

  2. #2
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    Holy crap. 43% of men have prior AAS exposure? Did I read that correctly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Java Man View Post
    Holy crap. 43% of men have prior AAS exposure? Did I read that correctly?
    I think it's just 43 percent of the patients that were seeking treatment for hypogonadism, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cc5501 View Post
    I think it's just 43 percent of the patients that were seeking treatment for hypogonadism, right?
    it was 43 percent of the 97 guys with profound hypo under 50ng/dl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cc5501 View Post
    I think it's just 43 percent of the patients that were seeking treatment for hypogonadism, right?
    Ah ok, yes. I just read that part again. Still pretty high. That's just the ones who admitted it. I wouldn't.

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    43% No that doesnt sound right, I was always scared to try aas, and even though I am 2 weeks into my cycle I am still nervous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HRTstudent View Post
    These findings suggest a necessary refocused approach in the evaluation and treatment paradigms of young hypogonadal men.
    IDK, I guess my comment would be; So what? What exactly does the data represent? Why even study the correlation? I donít get it, unless youíre just out to create a Ďnew labelí for some people. Also, why would this necessitate a "refocused" approach to treating men with this condition? Are you going to change standard TRT protocols for men with prior AS use? If you have the ailment then your entitled to get treatment for it regardless correct? Personally, while I donít condone AS usage among the younger population, I do understand why it occurs & the culture behind it. No offense to anyone, but if you're not into the sport of weight training than you donít get it & you're more likely to condemn everything associated with it. I mean letís face it, the U.S. media has created mass hysteria with AS use because itís been deemed both illegal & a horrible thing to do. A blind person can see the same mindset behind this study. If the same study were published in the UK where personal usage is allowed, I bet hardly anyone would even take note of it. Just my $0.02Ö
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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    IDK, I guess my comment would be; So what? What exactly does the data represent? Why even study the correlation? I donít get it, unless youíre just out to create a Ďnew labelí for some people. Also, why would this necessitate a "refocused" approach to treating men with this condition? Are you going to change standard TRT protocols for men with prior AS use? If you have the ailment then your entitled to get treatment for it regardless correct? Personally, while I donít condone AS usage among the younger population, I do understand why it occurs & the culture behind it. No offense to anyone, but if you're not into the sport of weight training than you donít get it & you're more likely to condemn everything associated with it. I mean letís face it, the U.S. media has created mass hysteria with AS use because itís been deemed both illegal & a horrible thing to do. A blind person can see the same mindset behind this study. If the same study were published in the UK where personal usage is allowed, I bet hardly anyone would even take note of it. Just my $0.02Ö
    prob focus more on restarts rather than trt protocols.

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlifterty16 View Post
    prob focus more on restarts rather than trt protocols.
    Good point, but we see here on a regular basis that this rarely works...

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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    IDK, I guess my comment would be; So what? What exactly does the data represent? Why even study the correlation? I don’t get it, unless you’re just out to create a ‘new label’ for some people. Also, why would this necessitate a "refocused" approach to treating men with this condition? Are you going to change standard TRT protocols for men with prior AS use? If you have the ailment then your entitled to get treatment for it regardless correct? Personally, while I don’t condone AS usage among the younger population, I do understand why it occurs & the culture behind it. No offense to anyone, but if you're not into the sport of weight training than you don’t get it & you're more likely to condemn everything associated with it. I mean let’s face it, the U.S. media has created mass hysteria with AS use because it’s been deemed both illegal & a horrible thing to do. A blind person can see the same mindset behind this study. If the same study were published in the UK where personal usage is allowed, I bet hardly anyone would even take note of it. Just my $0.02…
    its really just a formal investigation/hey look what we are seeing in the clinics type of study. I think they are realizing that hey, some people are doing this to themselves... better yet, maybe it's transitory and you might not need to put a patient on androgel after one low reading of total t.

    but overall it is good, they are trying to learn more about hypogonadism and treating it. that's a pretty big deal IMO.

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    I think this confirms the bro science to a certain extent.

    The more exposure to exogeneous testosterone you accumulate, the more diminished your body becomes to being able to maintain higher levels or testosterone production in the long term.

    The real problem with this, before we go jumping to any conclusions, is that quite often when cycling, there are other compounds being taken along with the testosterone. Trying to identify if there is another compound besides the testosterone taken that is causing these detrimental effects is problematic.

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    It's funny that we refer to "bro science" as the un knowledgeable yet there are so many certified Doctors with years upon years of study and practice that seem to know less about trt than a lot of "bros". Is improper use of AAS among youngsters affecting some later on? Yes. Can we lump that majority in because of that? I think not. It's funny to me how "medicinal" pot is viewed more positively in this country than AAS.

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    Furthermore, (no I'm on a rant ) with what we know about body fat levels and body composition, it irks me when many Doctors still use the "bmi chart". I remember a Doctor way back in the day think I was "obese" with 10% body fat and 215 lbs. when there guys running around at the proper weight according to "bmi" that were far fatter and couldn't do a pull up or 10 push ups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    IDK, I guess my comment would be; So what? What exactly does the data represent? Why even study the correlation? I don’t get it, unless you’re just out to create a ‘new label’ for some people. Also, why would this necessitate a "refocused" approach to treating men with this condition? Are you going to change standard TRT protocols for men with prior AS use? If you have the ailment then your entitled to get treatment for it regardless correct? Personally, while I don’t condone AS usage among the younger population, I do understand why it occurs & the culture behind it. No offense to anyone, but if you're not into the sport of weight training than you don’t get it & you're more likely to condemn everything associated with it. I mean let’s face it, the U.S. media has created mass hysteria with AS use because it’s been deemed both illegal & a horrible thing to do. A blind person can see the same mindset behind this study. If the same study were published in the UK where personal usage is allowed, I bet hardly anyone would even take note of it. Just my $0.02…
    It's because this study concluded and the researchers needed something to do! It is somewhat interesting though. So many kids start AAS in their teens now which just amazes me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    IDK, I guess my comment would be; So what? What exactly does the data represent?
    Proof of "young, dumb, and full of..."

    In reality, the guys I know when I was young who were AAS were, for the most part, idiot meatheads. So the generalization does hold some credibility, at least according to this study (I guess?). Not sure it helps except to dissuade youths from AAS.

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    dreadnok89 is offline Member
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    No shit. What a dumb study.

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    To a lot of people, this may seem like a redundant/unnecessary study, but science works like that. Even if the premise seems obvious, you need to verify it to make certain you are positing sound arguments, and also to have justifications for future studies.

    Plus some people take it to the other extreme where they don't believe anything unless it's been verified in a peer reviewed publication.
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    I know of a number of young guys (under 25) who are currently using some form of test and/or dbol . Many just using oral aas to cycle and no pct. They buy what they can find easy and cheap and do not know a damn thing about pct. I have a "friend" who is in contact with these guys on a regular basis at the shit ass gym they use and he tells me about them from time to time. I see them around and they are like yo yo's going up and down in weight. With sites like this out there I cannot understand why, but understand they are living at home with very little money so they put themselves in harms way anyway.

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    Its a dumb study because trying to state that every male with low-t is because they did juice when they were younger, hence trying to put blame on the person with low-t so insurance companies don't have to cover hrt. All I'm saying is that this study is silly because we already know the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dreadnok89 View Post
    Its a dumb study because trying to state that every male with low-t is because they did juice when they were younger, hence trying to put blame on the person with low-t so insurance companies don't have to cover hrt. All I'm saying is that this study is silly because we already know the results.
    The template today is that AAS is bad period. That's why anytime AAS is portrayed anywhere, especially in the media it is always negative. Never mind all the good that it does in trt or many other therapeutic uses. To the,se people, if you lift weights and do any sort of AAS, ( trt ) you are a roid heads. I personally think that's one of the reasons the field of hrt isn't better than what it is.
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  21. #21
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    I dont why something that enhanced quality of life is shunned so much.
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    I think TRT is coming around to a wider acceptance relatively quickly actually. The advent of Viagra and Cialis precipitated much of the male wellness hormone therapy (and a broader treatment for women).

    I have never seen TRT actually criticized or condemned or treated in the same category as AAS.

    I also have never understood why people feel the need to go to AAS strictly for sports performance or muscle gain beyond their natural limits. It's artificial gains at that point and would mean zero to me. On TRT, I do try to take advantage of the extra testosterone in the gym, but I don't do the TRT for the muscle by any stretch. Just my two cents... I'm certainly not every male, so this is just my opinion.

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    asiandudexxx is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreadnok89 View Post
    Its a dumb study because trying to state that every male with low-t is because they did juice when they were younger, hence trying to put blame on the person with low-t so insurance companies don't have to cover hrt. All I'm saying is that this study is silly because we already know the results.
    I get what you're trying to say, but from a medical perspective, you need to know these things to determine the likely etiology of each patient's disorder. T levels of <50 ng/dL are incredibly low and if there was no prior AAS use to explain it, that would mean someone has a serious underlying health problem. If not for this study, some naive doctors might think there is some crazy epidemic of hypogonadic but otherwise healthy young men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asiandudexxx View Post
    To a lot of people, this may seem like a redundant/unnecessary study, but science works like that. Even if the premise seems obvious, you need to verify it to make certain you are positing sound arguments, and also to have justifications for future studies.

    Plus some people take it to the other extreme where they don't believe anything unless it's been verified in a peer reviewed publication.
    this is really true...

    I remember when I went to an idiot endo... he didn't care that I showed him some studies of men benefiting from and taking anastrozole because they werent even published in endocrinology-related journals!

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    Well I guess I fall into this too. I graduated from WKU with a bachelors of science in health & human services but I was still dumb enough to experiment with aas. Which basically led me to my current and future TRT protocol. All I can say is I had a damn good time doing it!!

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    Well, the more access people have to AAS, the more side effects we'll see. Just like people who are new that fail to read the forum rules, even though the READ THIS FIRST couldn't be any more visible, yet they forgo reading anything and begin their first post asking where to get stuff from. Either that, or they begin trolling.

    Anyway, I share many of the rants you folks do. Kids now can buy prohormones when they've barely had their 2nd bonor, and, once again, fail to read the instructions, let alone understand these carry the same potential sides (if not worse) than AAS. There's also the guys in my age group (40+) that start dabbling with them because they can get them off Amazon and want to be "cut" for Summer and get pumped after their radical and excruciating Bowflex workout.

    You also have the other side of the "non-educated" crowd, where dying in a car wreck will be traced back to steroid usage, if the person killed took some d-bol 20 years ago. That will then prompt congress to enact another steroid law, putting even a recreational user away longer than a murderer.

    Okay, now I'm getting pissed off. It's just more people = more of everything. More good and more bad. I'd say the percentages of AAS users have more positive results in regards to their health and general well-being than some fat ass that sits on the couch eating McDonald's and KFC every night complaining their backs hurt. And seriously, small balls are better than a shitty back or f-ed up shoulder.

    Anyway, my 3 cents. Sorry for getting on a soapbox.

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    Yosimitesam I share the same concerns as you. I did two cycles back in my later 20's. I was fortunate that my mentor also properly had me do a pct. Had I not had a good mentor it could have been disastrous. This was also pre steroid laws and my AAS was straight off the rx shelf. That being said, anytime AAS are being mentioned it's always in a negative light, probably due to the sports and in general abuse. I believe that if they were legal for personal use, things in general and especially in hrt would be different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Yosimitesam I share the same concerns as you. I did two cycles back in my later 20's. I was fortunate that my mentor also properly had me do a pct. Had I not had a good mentor it could have been disastrous. This was also pre steroid laws and my AAS was straight off the rx shelf. That being said, anytime AAS are being mentioned it's always in a negative light, probably due to the sports and in general abuse. I believe that if they were legal for personal use, things in general and especially in hrt would be different.
    That's the thing. The stricter laws have forced everything underground, where you could actually receive some really helpful information from guys in the gym (in the 80s), and also actually get something you didn't have to worry about being faked or seized.

    We all make mistakes, but thanks to the propaganda that started sprouting up in my high school as the 80s were winding down, I was very apprehensive about AAS usage, until I chose to educate myself on exactly what they were, what different ones did and how you can actually benefit from steroid therapy if you stuck to the protocol. I also took heed to the recommendation it was wiser to finish growing. Even after that, I initially became interested after I injured my back and was looking for something to help in recovery and cushion my joints so I could continue working out, which it did exactly that. My balls never shriveled, and I never felt the urge to murder my family or beat up the next guy that looked at me the wrong way. I was also glad I didn't break out with cancer from head to toe as a bald, fat congressman said I would.

    Sometimes you have to mess up to learn, and some people have the small ball syndrome to understand why you are actually supposed to cycle and incorporate ancillaries to keep your body moving accordingly. The problem is the anti-steroid media will run with this story and sensationalize it to assume everyone that takes steroids will get raisin nuts before getting cancer and going on a killing spree.

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