Please somebody help me, I'm panicking , aromasin crashed estro, is this permanent?

**maelpj** · 08-03-2013, 09:19 PM

After 3 month of TRT, I was feeling amazing. 200mg week of test, only using 6,25mg of aromazin EOD. It completely cured my depression, boosted my libido, nice pump in the gym, crazy hunger ,etc.

I had a blood test, e2 was way higher than normal range, so i started to take 12.5mg of aromasin a day. From that moment, I started to feel worse and worse. 2 months later, I felt like pre TRT and even worse. No libido, depression went back and my muscle are terribly flat. After exploring different option, I finally started to look at my aromasin increase. I think I crushed my E2 hard. I might be oversensitive to AI

I completely stopped taking aromasin 2 day ago, still feel the same. After reading a couple of info on Aromasin, I'm really worried. If I understand well, Aromasin permantly killed my aromatase enzyme! Does it mean i'm going to keep feeling like shyt ? How can I make my body to create new aromatase enzyme? Please I seriously need someone to educate me on this, Im getting really anxious. Did i ****ed myself up?

**Java Man** · 08-03-2013, 10:22 PM

Lol. Calm down man.you'll be fine. Aromasin has a half life of about 9 hrs in healthy men. It has bound to and deactivated existing aromatase but you don't have a finite amount of aromatase. You most likely deactivated 65-80% if you doubled the dose to 25mg. It won't kill ALL aromatase. It leaves about 20% active. From what I've read it is nearly impossible to completely crash e2 using only examestane. It will be out of your system within 16-20hrs. Youre creating new aromatase constantly. It will replace the stane deactivated enzymes. You should be feeling much better in another few days.

**kelkel** · 08-04-2013, 06:53 AM

Some BW may be prudent.

**maelpj** · 08-04-2013, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Java Man

Youre creating new aromatase constantly. It will replace the stane deactivated enzymes.

You sure about that? I can't seems to find any info on that. If so, good news.

**kelkel** · 08-04-2013, 07:11 AM

He's correct. You'll be fine.

**crazy mike** · 08-04-2013, 08:16 AM

I have crashed mine. Actually I have done it twice because I panicked with my Gyno and couldn't get BW in time on the second occasion. As was said it will come back and you will be fine. Also different stages of cycles, for me, can give me the feeling I've crashed again, when I haven't. So Slow down, be cool, get BW ASAP and make little adjustments being patient. ...crazy mike

**dreadnok89** · 08-04-2013, 09:35 AM

Also shockingly it could be extremely high. I thought mine crashed but it was really high. Exestanane works the best for me. I always stick with it

**Moparman** · 08-04-2013, 04:10 PM

I've crashed mine a couple times too. Just stop for a week or two. It'll come back

**Java Man** · 08-04-2013, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by maelpj

You sure about that? I can't seems to find any info on that. If so, good news.

Yes.

Originally Posted by kelkel

He's correct. You'll be fine.

^^ this

Originally Posted by kelkel

Some BW may be prudent.

And this

**maelpj** · 08-15-2013, 10:21 AM

Ok guys, I went for bloodwork..

Just want to precise that my dumbass kept taking aromasin since the post cause I wasn't sure my estro was crashed ( Didn't had achy joint) and had acne, severe depression, low libido and water retention so I tought my estro was in fact high..

The result:

Testoterone: 1500 ng/ml
Eastradiol (E2): 10 pg/mL ( 7.5 - 48)

My estrogen is in range but really low.. And I feel like pure shit.

Keep in mind guy, I did a test 3 month ago where my test level was around the same ( 1500), but my estradio was around 100 pg/ml!! And I was feally FREAKING great. That's right, I had ricidulous high e2 level and was feeling great..

Could all my symptoms really be related to those low E2 level? What do I do, lay off the AI till I start growing boobs or something?

**xcraider37** · 08-15-2013, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by maelpj

Ok guys, I went for bloodwork..

Just want to precise that my dumbass kept taking aromasin since the post cause I wasn't sure my estro was crashed ( Didn't had achy joint) and had acne, severe depression, low libido and water retention so I tought my estro was in fact high..

The result:

Testoterone: 1500 ng/ml
Eastradiol (E2): 10 pg/mL ( 7.5 - 48)

My estrogen is in range but really low.. And I feel like pure shit.

Keep in mind guy, I did a test 3 month ago where my test level was around the same ( 1500), but my estradio was around 100 pg/ml!! And I was feally FREAKING great. That's right, I had ricidulous high e2 level and was feeling great..

Could all my symptoms really be related to those low E2 level? What do I do, lay off the AI till I start growing boobs or something?

It will bounce back, you will know when cause generally you will have a nice surprise that wakes you up in the middle of the night.

Relax not a huge issue unless you do it long term.

**maelpj** · 08-15-2013, 10:32 AM

Yeah man, it's strange we hear so many time that high estrogen lead to low libido and should be controlled, but in my experience, high-normal estro = monster libido and low libido= limp!..

At least. those bloodwork tell me what's really going on. Don't have to play the guess game anymore. I was starting to go crazy, thinking my gear wasn't legit. At least now I know it is, so is my Aromasin !

**phaedo** · 08-15-2013, 12:30 PM

I would lower your testosterone dose - perhaps 125 mg/wk. You'd likely feel much better and secondly, perhaps not need an AI at all!

**powerlifterty16** · 08-15-2013, 12:37 PM

are you on a cycle? 1500 is not a trt level and im guessing your level is higher bc most labs dont go above 1500.....i really dont think it's healthy to go above 1200..just my thoughts.

**maelpj** · 08-15-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by powerlifterty16

are you on a cycle? 1500 is not a trt level and im guessing your level is higher bc most labs dont go above 1500.....i really dont think it's healthy to go above 1200..just my thoughts.

It's actualy 1450, and yes, lab go higher I once got tested at 1800 and lowered my dose.. Keep in mind I took the bloodwork the day after my injection, so that's my peak.

I know it's high but in the past without the AI I felt great as hell. After feeling like shit for all my life, I am resistant at first about lowering something that worked that well!

But I know I should lower the dose. Gonna wait till the estro goes up, higher test gonna allow aromatisation to go up faster. Once there when I'll feel good, gonna lower that dose to 200mg, Which should put me around 1200 at my peak, so around and average of 1000 across the week. No studies as far as I know claim that having test level around the 1000-1200 range would cause problem long term.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 08-15-2013, 03:25 PM

If you are going to keep your testosterone at such high levels I would definitely recommend that you monitor your hematocrit, blood pressure, lipids, and estrogen.

I am sure there are many other things that should be watched.

Also, being that you are 19 years old you may want to think about your fertility.

I personally don't think anyone who is 19 years old should be self-medicating, especially with underground lab gear.
TRT does come with risks.

**maelpj** · 08-15-2013, 04:04 PM

First, I'm 20, not that it matters much. Have been reading on the subject since I was 17.

Like I said, I'm going to lower the dose to 200mg which should put me around 1200 . Yes high, but considering some Labs have 380-1200 range, those arent extremely above physiological level. And yes, estro, blood pressue and lipib will be monitored, an endo is following me, just isn't providing the Test. Will give blood too.

As far as not self-TRT at age 20, well that's your opinion. I think there is no age to be happy. I had low level, but just over the lowest of the scale to not being able to get test prescript. I had enough of feeling like garbage and not being able to enjoy life like a normal young man should, after trying about everything there possibily is out there ( Meditation, therapy, anti-depress, different type of diet, hypnose, etc.) , sleeping 8 hours a day, taking vitamins, always eating clean and keeping my self and shape, never taking druug and STILL no seeing improvement in my mood, I choosed TRT . It was pretty much between that and ending my life. There was no way I was gonna live the rest of the prime of my life feeling like that and waiting miserably till my late forties to start doing something about it. I rather live 15-20 years while feeling good than an whole life feeling like and old man.

Yeah, long rant, I Know..

**SEOINAGE** · 08-15-2013, 04:18 PM

You really should find a balance, what's your free test look like? You might even feel better at a lower dose, you don't know till you try it. You need to lay off the ai a bit, lower your test dose, test things again and see if you need the ai, and then implement it back in at a much lower level. Personally I can feel pretty good with e2 40-50, which is high, but I have less acne if I keep it in the 20s. Thing is if you had started off with a lower dose and adjusted up you wouldn't have tasted what supra-physiological levels would feel like, plenty of guys who run cycles think that's the real normal, when it isn't.

So don't just dismiss having a balanced approach thinking you won't feel good, you can still feel great getting everything together properly.

**maelpj** · 08-15-2013, 04:23 PM

I agree that those level are too high, just don't want to lower it to fast.

Gonna pass from 250mg to 225mg for a month without AI. Will take blood test.

After blood test, if my test is higher that 1200, will lower it to 200mg a week. Will adujst AI from result.

**maelpj** · 08-15-2013, 04:29 PM

Would like to had, 1200 ng/l might be higher level than an average man, but can we really call it supra-physiological levels?

It's been documanted that test level have been decreasing for the last 20 years by around 15-20%. And even more so from 50-100 years ago.

1200 ng/l test level 20-30 years ago would pretty much be considered only High-Normal test level. Is there serious health problem associated with such level? Any studies?

We aren't talking about 2000 ngl/l + level like a guy on cycle, around 4 times the average level of a man.

**SEOINAGE** · 08-15-2013, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by maelpj

Would like to had, 1200 ng/l might be higher level than an average man, but can we really call it supra-physiological levels?

It's been documanted that test level have been decreasing for the last 20 years by around 15-20%. And even more so from 50-100 years ago.

1200 ng/l test level 20-30 years ago would pretty much be considered only High-Normal test level. Is there serious health problem associated with such level? Any studies?

We aren't talking about 2000 ngl/l + level like a guy on cycle, around 4 times the average level of a man.

Thick blood, something you can monitor, and donate blood, but it could get really bad and pose a major health concern.

I may agree with taking things slow on adjusting levels, but if you are at 250 I would be dropping down to middle of common range and hit 150 first, I also would be dosing at least twice a week, so split it up, it will help you feel more level, keep you from hitting lows and excessive highs, and help with the e2 issues, as well as help you normalize levels when changing doses much faster.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 08-15-2013, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by maelpj

Would like to had, 1200 ng/l might be higher level than an average man, but can we really call it supra-physiological levels?

Yes, 1200 is a supra-physiological level.

Humans have a diurnal testosterone cycle. Someone that is blessed with a peak test level of 1200 at 8am is going to be around 500 at 2am. He thus has an average test level of approximately 850. (see attached chart)

Someone doing weekly injections with a peak level of 1200 is going to average around 1000. (by your previous estimation) This is around 18% higher than the luckiest of men.
Someone doing weekly injections with a trough level of 1200 is going to average north of 1400. (by my estimation)
This is around 64% higher than the luckiest of men.

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**maelpj** · 08-20-2013, 10:09 AM

Quick question. I Stopped the AI 6 day ago to let my e2 creep up again and have experience the same thing a experienced last time I tried this:

Around the 5 or 6 day mark, I start to get sleepy as hell! Last time I taught my estro was just getting to high and took some aromasin only to end up feeling like shit again.

Could it possibily be that my body ain't used to estradiol ( who we know raise serotonin) and thus need some adaption time to get used to the higher e2?

Let me remember you guys that with e2 level of 80 up to 100, I felt great as HELL! Never tired, high libido, high motivation, etc. After 1 full month of feeling like shyt, Tested e2 1 week ago it was at 10, so now i stopped AI to let e2 rise again.

Would like an opinion on this?

**powerlifterty16** · 08-20-2013, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by maelpj

Quick question. I Stopped the AI 6 day ago to let my e2 creep up again and have experience the same thing a experienced last time I tried this:

Around the 5 or 6 day mark, I start to get sleepy as hell! Last time I taught my estro was just getting to high and took some aromasin only to end up feeling like shit again.

Could it possibily be that my body ain't used to estradiol ( who we know raise serotonin) and thus need some adaption time to get used to the higher e2?

Let me remember you guys that with e2 level of 80 up to 100, I felt great as HELL! Never tired, high libido, high motivation, etc. After 1 full month of feeling like shyt, Tested e2 1 week ago it was at 10, so now i stopped AI to let e2 rise again.

Would like an opinion on this?

it could be a number of things....maybe your body doesnt like aromasin and it has nothing to do with estrogen..but that doesnt explain why you felt bad when it rose. I dotn think your body hates estrogen since you felt good at 100...maybe during the time you stopped the aromasin you had a lot less free t due to the higher e?