5 Days in

[gatornate97]

So I started my TRT last Friday. I had a few headaches the first two days but it subsided by Sunday.

I definitely felt less anxious, more energized, clear, and even felt more interested in my wife (that's a good thing lol) than I have in a while.
Today though I felt that " tired" feeling coming on. You know that feeling where your eyes just want to shut. Lethargic basically. I am not scheduled for my next dose 200 mg until Friday.

Going to see if splitting the doses will be allowed. I would like to not have this tired, lethargic feeling come back.

Just wanted to update the board on the first week and what I have experienced. Will report back when I find out if I can split doses at 100mg a piece every 3.5 days like I've seen here

[powerlifterty16]

if he doesnt do it, look elsewhere. your protocol right now is garbage...you wil feel better on once or twice per week...but if you are only on 200mg every 10 days that's not 100 every 3.5 days that is 85 i believe every 3.5 days(which isnt bad! 200 mg every week is very high)

[EverettCD]

So I started my TRT last Friday. I had a few headaches the first two days but it subsided by Sunday.

I definitely felt less anxious, more energized, clear, and even felt more interested in my wife (that's a good thing lol) than I have in a while.
Today though I felt that " tired" feeling coming on. You know that feeling where your eyes just want to shut. Lethargic basically. I am not scheduled for my next dose 200 mg until Friday.

Going to see if splitting the doses will be allowed. I would like to not have this tired, lethargic feeling come back.

Just wanted to update the board on the first week and what I have experienced. Will report back when I find out if I can split doses at 100mg a piece every 3.5 days like I've seen here

Clarify your injection schedule for us. Are being injected at the Dr's office every 7 days, 200mg? If so from what my I've read that dose is on the high end of TRT dosage. What was your Dr's reason for this dosage & injection schedule?

I know from my own personal experience that I feel great splitting my dose in half & injecting twice per week (70mg Monday AM & Thursday PM). Light years ahead of where I was on topicals, I have my constant energy back & my wife is happy to see my libido back in town. My Dr (Urologist) originally wanted me to inject 200mg once per 7 days. I asked him what his reasoning was behind this dose & schedule, he stated that he has many Pt's that do not want to inject themselves twice per week, they probably have way too much E2 & started laughing. As for the dose he stated that since the topicals weren't doing it for me & I was using the max dosage he wanted to start me at 200mg per week & reevaluate me in 5 weeks with BW (Dr stated that it's Pt specific what dose he starts them at). Thanks to the knowledgeable members here educating me & my Dr being open minded I asked to start at a lower dose & inject every 3.5 days. He didn't balk one bit, said go for it & we'll see how much you have improved & make sure BW results show my in healthy ranges.

Have a quality discussion with your Dr, if he's not receptive & will to work WITH you, move on. I know that if you read the forums for more that 5 minutes it may seem like all Dr's are uneducated & only in it for the money not to help the Pt's. Good Dr's are out there.

[FRDave]

Your doing 200mg per week, right? Self administer or you have to go in for a shot? Using HCG ? If so, how many IU's per injection and how often?

I would say 5 days in is a bit early to feel any affects, so your either tired from the normal low testosterone (serum blood levels have not built up yet), or perhaps stress, diet, lack of sleep etc.

Regardless, injection twice a week every 3.5 days is ideal so do look into it like mentioned. This will keep blood serum levels stable throughout the week as well as keep your E2 from spiking, allowing for a minimal dose of AI, or possibly none at all.

If not using HCG, check out the stickies to get a good understanding as to why you should. This will also help keep your test levels stable throughout the week.

Good luck

[Brett N]

I am on my 3rd week and I am just now starting to feel some effects. Mostly just the morning erection but my anxiety has dissipated a little and I feel like my outlook has improved.

I am a born skeptic so I always believe things aren't working until I see dramatic changes. I know in the very beginning I felt better just because I felt there was hope. Hope is a very powerful feeling. Before I saw the doc, I just thought that I was going to have to endure life without looking forward to anything.

I agree with others though, I am on a twice a week injection with HCG twice a week also. So, basically every 42 hours I have a shot of something.

[gatornate97]

200mg every Friday at the male clinic. Along with HCG the same day. I do not
Remember the dosage, but will report back this Friday on what it is.

I have read here that that is a high number (200mg) so I am going to talk to him about lowering it to 75mg twice a week like I have read in these forums to try and level load my serum. Along with two HCG shots as well. I am going to ask if I can self administer as well. Will be much more logistical friendly.

I am also taking 100mg of zinc to try and naturally control E2 first before going the AI route. He is receptive to AI and actually said let's try it naturally first before we prescribe the E2 blocker.

Call me crazy, but I believe I felt a bit more spunk this past week.

[2Sox]

200mg every Friday at the male clinic. Along with HCG the same day. I do not
Remember the dosage, but will report back this Friday on what it is.

I have read here that that is a high number (200mg) so I am going to talk to him about lowering it to 75mg twice a week like I have read in these forums to try and level load my serum. Along with two HCG shots as well. I am going to ask if I can self administer as well. Will be much more logistical friendly.

I am also taking 100mg of zinc to try and naturally control E2 first before going the AI route. He is receptive to AI and actually said let's try it naturally first before we prescribe the E2 blocker.

Call me crazy, but I believe I felt a bit more spunk this past week.

My guess is that the tired, lethargic feeling you refer to in your original post is from a spike in your E2 level. My doc shot 400mg into me and on the third day I could hardly get up and move. That was the first shot of T I ever got. I know how it feels. If there is anything I've learned here is that dosing is always patient specific and it's better to start low and titrate up. If 200mg/week works for you, go for it. But everyone will tell you the same: Start low and find the lowest effective dose.

My protocol is 40mg EOD, 250iu hCG EOD - alternating. Seems to work well but I'm relatively new to this and I'm waiting to see my BW and how this feels. May pull back a little lower or go a little higher with T dose. Not sure yet. hCG seems to be right. There was another thread with a discussion of how important patience is and also how hard it is to BE patient!

For E2 management, consider 4mg copper/day and DIM in addition to your zinc. I picked that up on this forum also. I take .25mg anastrozole every 4 days but even this is too much for me. Thinking of cutting it in half and taking liquid adex - which is easier to measure - from the site sponsor.

[HRTstudent]

So I started my TRT last Friday. I had a few headaches the first two days but it subsided by Sunday.

I definitely felt less anxious, more energized, clear, and even felt more interested in my wife (that's a good thing lol) than I have in a while.
Today though I felt that " tired" feeling coming on. You know that feeling where your eyes just want to shut. Lethargic basically. I am not scheduled for my next dose 200 mg until Friday.

Going to see if splitting the doses will be allowed. I would like to not have this tired, lethargic feeling come back.

Just wanted to update the board on the first week and what I have experienced. Will report back when I find out if I can split doses at 100mg a piece every 3.5 days like I've seen here

try not micromanage/scrutinize too much. at 5 days in, things are changing a lot. certainly do not make changes on a week to week basis, lest you risk never finding what works best for you. TRT takes time -- measured in months mostly and some aspects in years.

[gatornate97]

My guess is that the tired, lethargic feeling you refer to in your original post is from a spike in your E2 level. My doc shot 400mg into me and on the third day I could hardly get up and move. That was the first shot of T I ever got. I know how it feels. If there is anything I've learned here is that dosing is always patient specific and it's better to start low and titrate up. If 200mg/week works for you, go for it. But everyone will tell you the same: Start low and find the lowest effective dose.

My protocol is 40mg EOD, 250iu hCG EOD - alternating. Seems to work well but I'm relatively new to this and I'm waiting to see my BW and how this feels. May pull back a little lower or go a little higher with T dose. Not sure yet. hCG seems to be right. There was another thread with a discussion of how important patience is and also how hard it is to BE patient!

For E2 management, consider 4mg copper/day and DIM in addition to your zinc. I picked that up on this forum also. I take .25mg anastrozole every 4 days but even this is too much for me. Thinking of cutting it in half and taking liquid adex - which is easier to measure - from the site sponsor.

Thanks for the info. Sorry, but I am new so I don't have quite all the acronyms down. What is DIM? Also, what is EOD?

I will try the copper as well, thanks for the tip!
I am trying to be patient, and don't want to seem pushy or bossy to my doc. But after reading the board here and researching doses, I don't want to take supraphysiological doses. I am not trying to stack. I just want to get to a feeling of productivity and better with the wife.
I would rather err on the low side and adjust upward than the alternative. I'd rather not have to use an AI of that's even possible while maintaining a good T level.

[gatornate97]

try not micromanage/scrutinize too much. at 5 days in, things are changing a lot. certainly do not make changes on a week to week basis, lest you risk never finding what works best for you. TRT takes time -- measured in months mostly and some aspects in years.

Thanks for the advice. I am new, so I am sure this will all come together at some point.

[2Sox]

Thanks for the info. Sorry, but I am new so I don't have quite all the acronyms down. What is DIM? Also, what is EOD?

I will try the copper as well, thanks for the tip!
I am trying to be patient, and don't want to seem pushy or bossy to my doc. But after reading the board here and researching doses, I don't want to take supraphysiological doses. I am not trying to stack. I just want to get to a feeling of productivity and better with the wife.
I would rather err on the low side and adjust upward than the alternative. I'd rather not have to use an AI of that's even possible while maintaining a good T level.

DIM is a supplement you can get over the counter like at Vitamin Shoppe
EOD = every other day

[jomamma007]

If you want to avoid an ai, you almost definitely will need a lower dose. 200mgs puts probably 75% of over the scale for estrogen, hell most guys still need ai's on 100mgs per week. Trust us now and start with a lower dosage, ideally 100mgs per week split into two injections. Every guy thinks they need more testosterone and will always take the highest dose their offered, but for most you'll end up feeling worse because your estrogen will be off the charts. Good luck bud

[powerlifterty16]

if he doesnt do it, look elsewhere. your protocol right now is garbage...you wil feel better on once or twice per week...but if you are only on 200mg every 10 days that's not 100 every 3.5 days that is 85 i believe every 3.5 days(which isnt bad! 200 mg every week is very high)

i think i did the math wrong..if he was on 200 mg every 10 days that would convert to a weekly dose of 140 right? 70 every 3.5 days? i know it doesnt work that way but this time the math is right i think?

[Brett N]

Yea, that's right. 200 every 10 would be same as 20 a day or 70 every 3.5 days or 2x a week (however one wants to word it). Weird numbers.

[powerlifterty16]

Yea, that's right. 200 every 10 would be same as 20 a day or 70 every 3.5 days or 2x a week (however one wants to word it). Weird numbers.

just thought of that..it is weird. do people really do it 3.5 days or do they justdo it the same days each week which would be 3 and 4?

[gatornate97]

Ok guys...what's weird about these numbers?

I take 200mg once a week....

[Brett N]

Sorry, not sure where the 10 days came from. 200 a week isn't abnormal.

powerliftery, I take my shots like this -

5am Mon - Test 50mg
5am Tues - anastrozole 1/4 gram
roughly 11pm Tues - HCG 250iu
5pm thurs - Test 50mg
5pm Fri - anastrozole 1/4 gram
roughly 5am sat - HCG 250 iu

I amnot exact but that is my schedule and what I attempt to achieve. 42 hours apart on all injections.

[EverettCD]

Ok guys...what's weird about these numbers?

I take 200mg once a week....

He's not referring to your numbers unless the a full week has been changed to 10 days, I think my calendar has 7 day weeks . Powerliftie is rambling on about something else...

[gatornate97]

Gotcha!

One thing I am seeing is that the HCG is being administered a day or two after T injections.

Why am I receiving HCG the same day? Is that a common protocol? Sorry about all the questions, but no better way to get the knowledge. Like I said, I'm at a male clinic and I want to make sure they have my best interest.

[EverettCD]

From all the not so wonderful stories I hear & read about TRT clinics it appears many of them have their priorities backwards, money then PT well being. Hopefully this isn't the case with the clinic you go to.

Are they going to allow you to self inject your meds at home?
Do they charge you an arm & a leg every Friday when you go for your injections?

[gatornate97]

From all the not so wonderful stories I hear & read about TRT clinics it appears many of them have their priorities backwards, money then PT well being. Hopefully this isn't the case with the clinic you go to.

Are they going to allow you to self inject your meds at home?
Do they charge you an arm & a leg every Friday when you go for your injections?

I am going to ask if they will let me self inject Friday.

I pay roughly $250 a month for T, HCG , and arimidex if it becomes necessary. But researching more and reading these threads have me wondering what the correct protocol is and all the P's here seem to be similar. It's got me questioning the process a bit.

I only took one dose of 200mg so maybe I need to back out and find a better alternative Maybe the sponsored one here or an A4M.

What would be the consequence of backing out after 1 dose and finding another suitor if they do not feel the need to understand my concerns and try to compromise?

[powerlifterty16]

hcg administered the same day will cause t to spike too high and e2 to spike too high. i have heard doingnit a day before each injection is best so do
hcg sun wed
cyp mon thursday

adex idk too much about i think that is supposed to be done twice per week too.

[Brett N]

My understanding is that both the Test and HCG injections will give a spike of test in your system. HCG not as much but still some. Splitting it will allow a smoother test in your body instead of spiking severely in one direction or another.

LowT sponsor here is $199 and that includes everything from hcg, test, anastrozole, syringes, bacteriostat, and alcohol swabs. Not to mention another forum site dedicated to helping. Plus, 24 hour nurse support. The money also includes doctor consultation face to face (only 1 per year is required for travelers) and bloodwork. I also got my travel reimbursed so going to an out of state doctor cost me nothing but time.

Site sponsor isn't going anywhere, try to just talk to your doctor and let him know your concerns. I'd give him a chance, he seems like he is willing to work with you. The choice is ultimately up to you and if he doesn't fulfill what you think you need, looking into other doctors is not a crime.

[powerlifterty16]

your dr sounds like he is pretty good for a non low t dr...he does hcg , prescribes once per week, will give an ai if needed ,so he is decent
low t is prob better though, and if you're paying 250 anyway, might as well switch....but at this point you are working with him so idk maybe switch once you're dialed in

[2Sox]

My understanding is that both the Test and HCG injections will give a spike of test in your system. HCG not as much but still some. Splitting it will allow a smoother test in your body instead of spiking severely in one direction or another.

LowT sponsor here is $199 and that includes everything from hcg, test, anastrozole, syringes, bacteriostat, and alcohol swabs. Not to mention another forum site dedicated to helping. Plus, 24 hour nurse support. The money also includes doctor consultation face to face (only 1 per year is required for travelers) and bloodwork. I also got my travel reimbursed so going to an out of state doctor cost me nothing but time.

Site sponsor isn't going anywhere, try to just talk to your doctor and let him know your concerns. I'd give him a chance, he seems like he is willing to work with you. The choice is ultimately up to you and if he doesn't fulfill what you think you need, looking into other doctors is not a crime.

I'd go to LowT, the sponsor, if something went by the boards with my doc. Best alternative, as I see it.

Regarding hCG: Crisler advocates a shot two days before, and another one day before your test injection - if you are injecting once per week.

[powerlifterty16]

I'd go to LowT, the sponsor, if something went by the boards with my doc. Best alternative, as I see it.

Regarding hCG: Crisler advocates a shot two days before, and another one day before your test injection - if you are injecting once per week.

im confused bc his dr sounds a lot better than your team

[gatornate97]

Great dialogue and I appreciate the knowledge.

Who the hell knows, I am just going to be patient and try and read as much as I can and be active here as much as possible to learn new P's and gain an understanding at which time I can thoughtfully articulate my views and see if we can learn together. If not, then I will probably go the sponsor route in which you guys have had nothing but positive feedback in regards to the sponsor.

[2Sox]

im confused bc his dr sounds a lot better than your team

Got that right! If his doc is in the NYC area, I'd like to know his/her name.

[gatornate97]

Got that right! If his doc is in the NYC area, I'd like to know his/her name.

We've got jokes, huh lol

[2Sox]

try not micromanage/scrutinize too much. at 5 days in, things are changing a lot. certainly do not make changes on a week to week basis, lest you risk never finding what works best for you. TRT takes time -- measured in months mostly and some aspects in years.

HRT,
It's kinda hard not to scrutinize because when you start out you have to pay close attention and "listen to your body".

The time involved and the many factors in TRT is amazing to consider. Sometimes I just don't know how each substance I take into my body is effecting me. For example, I'm only into my protocol about six weeks and a few days ago I started taking DHEA - after I found my levels were below normal range. Felt better almost immediately, with a good deal more energy and alertness. But now I'm starting to break out - in my groin area of all places! Don't know if it's the DHEA or I'm just adjusting to the T dose - or a combination of everything! Scratching my head about the whole thing.

[Brett N]

Got that right! If his doc is in the NYC area, I'd like to know his/her name.

Who's doctor are you talking about?

[powerlifterty16]

Who's doctor are you talking about?

op's

[gatornate97]

Who's doctor are you talking about?

My shit Dr apparently lol

And I agree with 2sox about scrutiny. When I go in tomorrow I am going to be armed with a ton of info ( thanks to this board ) and research to help create a P that I AM comfortable with.

The only person that knows what's truly going on is the patient IMO. I know my body and how it feels. Like today, everyone knows I'm on once a week pins and had to leave work cause I felt like I was going to pass out at my desk. Got home and was gone!! I have been sleeping a good 7-8 hours a night, so to me, I'm going to let him know this. It may be or may not be related to dose and frequency. I def want to level load more to avoid any yoyo's in spikes.

I will get there fellas, just hang in there with me as I learn from this ninja board!

[powerlifterty16]

My shit Dr apparently lol

And I agree with 2sox about scrutiny. When I go in tomorrow I am going to be armed with a ton of info ( thanks to this board ) and research to help create a P that I AM comfortable with.

The only person that knows what's truly going on is the patient IMO. I know my body and how it feels. Like today, everyone knows I'm on once a week pins and had to leave work cause I felt like I was going to pass out at my desk. Got home and was gone!! I have been sleeping a good 7-8 hours a night, so to me, I'm going to let him know this. It may be or may not be related to dose and frequency. I def want to level load more to avoid any yoyo's in spikes.

I will get there fellas, just hang in there with me as I learn from this ninja board!

dude be happy you have a semi competent dr. im telling you man, your dr isnt that bad, and it sounds like he is one of the first drs you've found which is fortunate.

For reference, most drs wont prescribe hcg , wont prescribe an ai, dont test estradiol, prescribe gels only, or if they prescribe injections they dont do it the minimum once per week like your doc does.

your doc is not too bad imo. he started you off a little high, and is expensive, but other than that, he isnt terrible...and id rather a dr who wasnt scared of high doses when compared with a dr who is terrified of them.

i originally thought your dr had you on 200mg every 10 days, but since it's every 7 days id say it's not terrible. You should also know that the fact he didnt jumpstart you on arimidex blindly is a GOOD thing...btw is he with a clinic, why is he so pricey?

[gatornate97]

dude be happy you have a semi competent dr. im telling you man, your dr isnt that bad, and it sounds like he is one of the first drs you've found which is fortunate.

For reference, most drs wont prescribe hcg , wont prescribe an ai, dont test estradiol, prescribe gels only, or if they prescribe injections they dont do it the minimum once per week like your doc does.

your doc is not too bad imo. he started you off a little high, and is expensive, but other than that, he isnt terrible...and id rather a dr who wasnt scared of high doses when compared with a dr who is terrified of them.

i originally thought your dr had you on 200mg every 10 days, but since it's every 7 days id say it's not terrible. You should also know that the fact he didnt jumpstart you on arimidex blindly is a GOOD thing...btw is he with a clinic, why is he so pricey?

It is a clinic. It's called the Male Medical Group. I went in and talked to a nurse who has her B.S. and she provided the physical.

I speak with a specialist when I go in and get the shots. We discuss BW and what the timeline and effects will be.

That's what got me thinking I got one of those clinics that just care about $ and have standard protocol. Which is why I am going in armed tomorrow with my needs. The damn BW wasn't as comprehensive as I see here...just E2, glucose, TT, hemo, PSA, and I think that's it. Not even free test.

Learning from you guys here, it needs to be much more in depth with LH, FT, SHBG, FSH etc... So, I will go in tomorrow asking these key questions and seeing if I can take multiple doses as well.

[Brett N]

Personally, just the thought of having to drive somewhere to gwt a shot every time I need one would be enough to turn me off. That's probably why he gives you the HCG with Test, that way you aren't taking up their time with the need of an extra shot.