Got a script but not much info

[Machdiesel]

Ok so long story short I went to an endo and got prescribed 200mg test cyp a week. I talked him Into testing e2 as he said I didn't need it and it wouldn't go up. Not sure if he'll prescribe something but well cross that bridge when we get to it. So I have a script for 200mg and he said inject once a week. I'm 29, total test 279, free test was a few points below normal range. I think range was 9.5-60 and I was 7 or something like that. So I'm getting labs done in 4 weeks for total/free test and e2 estradiol. Right now I'm debating taking 100mg 1e5d or 1e3d. I'm thinking to start I should go once every 5 and see where I test, 100 e3d seems to be the top end. Any one have any input on what protocol would be better.

[powerlifterty16]

id try 60 mg monday and thursday. that would be a total of 120 mg per week. btw without hcg , your protocol will prob make you feel worse....i wouldnt go on trt without hcg....who wants small balls that HURT?

[xcraider37]

id try 60 mg monday and thursday. that would be a total of 120 mg per week. btw without hcg, your protocol will prob make you feel worse....i wouldnt go on trt without hcg....who wants small balls that HURT?

Not true!!!!!

[Megalodon6]

Not true!!!!!

How??

[EasyDoesIt]

If you went to an endo and he prescribed 200mgs per week, why not go with the prescription. When you go back for your labs he is going to base your results on 200mgs per week.

[jomamma007]

not all mens testes shrink and hurt guys.
HCG is still recommended for the "optimal HRT protocol".
Your e2 will go up as your testosterone elevates. E follows T.

I wouldn't start with 200mgs per week. This will put most men over the lab ranges, and end up just causing estrogen sides.
100mgs is the ideal starting dose, split into two 50mg injections. Monitor bloods after 6 weeks.
Start Low Go Slow!

[qscgugcsq]

He probably just assume that you wont aromatize much. I agree with him right now your E2 is not very important to know.
In 4 weeks you'll see how you stand, you will probably need an AI. but BW will tell.

It's better to do 2 injection/weeks. less peak and more stable.(better E2 control).

HCG worth looking into it, but you can go without it for a little while it wont hurt you.

[Machdiesel]

If you went to an endo and he prescribed 200mgs per week, why not go with the prescription. When you go back for your labs he is going to base your results on 200mgs per week.

Without going into detail he was not very informative, let's leave it at that. Once he said he'd prescribe the cyp and Said 200mg a week once a week I didnt want to argue anymore and end up not having a script at all. I'm debating 100mg Monday morning and Thursday nights but not sure yet. I now consider myself on TRT for life and assumed eventually id be at 100m e3d but not at first. I read you need less at first, then once your body shutsdown you need to slightly increase dosage ? Just trying to keep my script, appeize my dr and be as safe as possible. I was floored when he said 200mg a week so just nodded and said ok and figured is figure the rest out myself

[EasyDoesIt]

Ok so long story short I went to an endo and got prescribed 200mg test cyp a week. I talked him Into testing e2 as he said I didn't need it and it wouldn't go up. Not sure if he'll prescribe something but well cross that bridge when we get to it. So I have a script for 200mg and he said inject once a week. I'm 29, total test 279, free test was a few points below normal range. I think range was 9.5-60 and I was 7 or something like that. So I'm getting labs done in 4 weeks for total/free test and e2 estradiol. Right now I'm debating taking 100mg 1e5d or 1e3d. I'm thinking to start I should go once every 5 and see where I test, 100 e3d seems to be the top end. Any one have any input on what protocol would be better.

Re read your post and In bold, not sure if i am reading this correctly, did he test your e2 or said it was not necessary to test? That would sound odd for an endo not to test if he is prescribing testosterone ?

[Machdiesel]

Re read your post and In bold, not sure if i am reading this correctly, did he test your e2 or said it was not necessary to test? That would sound odd for an endo not to test if he is prescribing testosterone?

Ya sorry. I went to him today to of over labs and protocol for trt. He said we were gonna re test testosterone in 2 months. I talked him into adding in e2 and doing it in 4 weeks . Also he thinks I'm injecting 200mg every Tuesday, all labs done on Monday before injection

[EasyDoesIt]

Ya sorry. I went to him today to of over labs and protocol for trt. He said we were gonna re test testosterone in 2 months. I talked him into adding in e2 and doing it in 4 weeks . Also he thinks I'm injecting 200mg every Tuesday, all labs done on Monday before injection

That sounds crazy that he would not test your e2 originally before even prescribing test. To state that they would not change seems like an odd prediction to me. I used an anti aging clinic initially and btw, that was back a few years and i think due to laws etc. they are a bit more strict on prescriptions. Back then they wanted to sell products and 200mgs was standard. But i started at 100mgs 2 x per week. also used anastrozole and hcg . But i have a friend using 100mgs per week and does fine with no hcg. So he says? Personally i like to use hcg, but i just don't feel comfortable using it weekly for the rest of my life. You may have something going on that you don't want to post on the net which i completely understand, but at your age it seems unfortunate that you feel it's a lifer already to be on trt. Also, i have a friend who's endo put him on 25mgs of clomid per day as he is planning on having more children. Just a thought...

[powerlifterty16]

Re read your post and In bold, not sure if i am reading this correctly, did he test your e2 or said it was not necessary to test? That would sound odd for an endo not to test if he is prescribing testosterone?

LOL sounds like you have hit the lottery and never dealt with 99 percent of the drs out there man. i have no doubt you are knowledgeable about trt and all that, but luckily for you you arent knowledgeable on how bad drs are ahha(that was a compliment).

i would say, the op's dr is one of the bad trt doctors out there, but not the worst. at least his dr is doing once per week protocols, and is giving a good amount(albeit too much probably) t. The bad thing is he doesnt test hcg or e2. One can always test e2 by themselves, but hcg should be prescribed!

[jomamma007]

How can you assume you'd end up at 100mg e3d? Have you tested your blood work on this doseage?
100mgs PER WEEK puts most guys near the top of the ranges, that's 230mgs per week.
pssh every guy on here always takes the highest dosage they can get at first which almost always ends up causing more symptoms. I can tell you that almost everyone on this forum who posts regularly is on 80-120 mgs test per week, not all but most. Start slow bud, 100mgs a week, split into two injections. 200mgs put me at 1700 test level range 348-1197, also put my estrogen sky high and I barely felt the effects on the testosterone because of it. You might be lucky and not aromatise heavily but why chance it, you can always up your dose later. You will feel better regardless at 100mgs in the first month given your low starting test level.
Plus if you test too high your doc will prob lower your script. Either way check those bloods, and try to get an estradiol sensitive test, not just the standard estradiol test.

Not trying to be a jerk just trying to help you avoid the side effects that happened to me with starting with 200mgs a week.

[EasyDoesIt]

@jomamma, i agree with you as he is also much younger than i was and if your age is correct, you are to. My test was at 27 yikes. But i also took an AI. I am just hoping he is not having to be married to test at that age. Seems like his endo should be paying more attention to his concerns also.

[Machdiesel]

How can you assume you'd end up at 100mg e3d? Have you tested your blood work on this doseage?
100mgs PER WEEK puts most guys near the top of the ranges, that's 230mgs per week.
pssh every guy on here always takes the highest dosage they can get at first which almost always ends up causing more symptoms. I can tell you that almost everyone on this forum who posts regularly is on 80-120 mgs test per week, not all but most. Start slow bud, 100mgs a week, split into two injections. 200mgs put me at 1700 test level range 348-1197, also put my estrogen sky high and I barely felt the effects on the testosterone because of it. You might be lucky and not aromatise heavily but why chance it, you can always up your dose later. You will feel better regardless at 100mgs in the first month given your low starting test level.
Plus if you test too high your doc will prob lower your script. Either way check those bloods, and try to get an estradiol sensitive test, not just the standard estradiol test.

Not trying to be a jerk just trying to help you avoid the side effects that happened to me with starting with 200mgs a week.

Hey thanks for the reply, this is why I posted. Like I said I I initially thought he would prescribe 100mg a week and I would try and tslk him into every 5 days. Now that I have the script for 200 a week not sure what to do. I didnnt want to argue saying it was to much or start something that ended up with me getting nothing. As long as my tests in 4 weeks come back good I'm pretty sure he won't do much follow up as he didn't even really wanna check my levels for 3 months anyway and only testosterone levels . So you think it would be a good idea to inject 100mg every 5 days to start and see where I test in 4 weeks? As far as hcg goes I thought it was mainly for people who intend to eventuslly come off. He did test my leutinizing hormone and one other( he said the message from the brain sending out testosterone) and those were normal. Just free/total test was low

[Machdiesel]

@jomamma, i agree with you as he is also much younger than i was and if your age is correct, you are to. My test was at 27 yikes. But i also took an AI. I am just hoping he is not having to be married to test at that age. Seems like his endo should be paying more attention to his concerns also.

As I said my endo was not much help. For reference when prescribing he didn't even warm me about fertility issues, getting shutdown, etc. If I was a guy who depended on my doctor for all my info without research I'd be pissed not knowing these things. But the way I see it getting the script is 90% of the battle! I can do the rest. Anyway lets just focus on what protocol I should do and not my endo. My Main reason or posting is I thought 200 was to much, but once I had that script i thought f it lets ride baby. Lol now I'm getting back to reality. If I could test at 900 I'd be thrilled and consider that the sweet spot . And hey I can keep all that extra test for a blast down the road once im dialed in(never cycled or used before this).

[EasyDoesIt]

FYI-I do know young guys like yourself with good endo's, so switching endo's may be a strong consideration down the road. A script for test at your age through a regular md is tough and anti-aging clinics minimum start at 30 yrs old.
Best of luck to you!

[Machdiesel]

One last question. He said I needed s script for the needles so I asked if he was giving me 2 gauges. One to pull with and one to pin. He said it wasmt nessasary and just wrote a script for 21 gauge. Is this ok?

[jay adams]

Hey thanks for the reply, this is why I posted. Like I said I I initially thought he would prescribe 100mg a week and I would try and tslk him into every 5 days. Now that I have the script for 200 a week not sure what to do. I didnnt want to argue saying it was to much or start something that ended up with me getting nothing. As long as my tests in 4 weeks come back good I'm pretty sure he won't do much follow up as he didn't even really wanna check my levels for 3 months anyway and only testosterone levels. So you think it would be a good idea to inject 100mg every 5 days to start and see where I test in 4 weeks? As far as hcg goes I thought it was mainly for people who intend to eventuslly come off. He did test my leutinizing hormone and one other( he said the message from the brain sending out testosterone) and those were normal. Just free/total test was low

Hell no! Don't ask for less.lol You never know if you'll have a rainy day. I would start at 100mg a week however you decide to split it up. Im 40 mg twice a week and my free T is a little High.

Like these guys say " add more later if you need it". You don't want blood issues, E issues, the ever dreaded Gyne issue.

[powerlifterty16]

One last question. He said I needed s script for the needles so I asked if he was giving me 2 gauges. One to pull with and one to pin. He said it wasmt nessasary and just wrote a script for 21 gauge. Is this ok?

it's fine if you want to stick a knife in your leg. most here use smaller needles.

[EasyDoesIt]

One last question. He said I needed s script for the needles so I asked if he was giving me 2 gauges. One to pull with and one to pin. He said it wasmt nessasary and just wrote a script for 21 gauge. Is this ok?

Not unless you feel like using a harpoon to inject (exaggeration) but not. 18 to draw and 23 or 25 to inject. As soon as that needle hits bottle it is dulled. Even skin dulls it.

[Machdiesel]

I'll see if cvs will give me 18 and 25. So pull with the 18 and inject with the 25. Got it. Any reason for using different gauges?

[Machdiesel]

HELL NO I WASNT ASKING FOR LESS! To stay stable and inject as least as possible is once every 5 days a good trt protocol?

[jay adams]

HELL NO I WASNT ASKING FOR LESS! To stay stable and inject as least as possible is once every 5 days a good trt protocol?

Every three days.

The bigger gauge to pull it in easier and the smaller to put a smaller hole in you. The bigger the gauge the faster your stopper will get damaged. You can pull and push with a 25. I used 30 insulin pins to pull and push when I was going subq.

[xcraider37]

How??

The comment that you will feel worse without hcg , many guys that are primary have very sucessful trt protocols without hcg.

[Rusty11]

So, if you immediately change your dose based on internet comments-no offense to anyone, will you tell your doc that you decided to not follow his protocol? It's 4 weeks 'til bw, not 4 months. If you change dose and don't tell him, how will he interpret your t level at the 4 week mark? I just don't want him to get annoyed and stop treating you.

29 and on lifelong trt-that's another discussion that needs to be addressed.

[jay adams]

Everyone knows on this site that the majority of docs prescribing TRT don't know what they are doing. If my doc told me 200mg a week I could only pray someone would tell me better.

If he injects at home he can adjust to the bloods. If his doc says "you need 220 a week" he can take 120 a week and stay safe. Just my opinion op.

[MRNJ1992]

Go with an 18 to draw and a 22 to inject. I alternate thighs and glutes. Works for me.

[Machdiesel]

I've done my research and just assumed he would give me 100mg a week. When we spoke in our initial consult he Said he only prescribes 1x a week injections, not 2. So today when I went back I was gonna discuss 100mg every 5 days to stay stable. When he said 200mg a week I was alil shocked and just accepted. I decided to just go ahead with the 100mg every 5 days as I was going to ask about. Before jumping in I decided to see what this site has to say. This site has very knowledgable people and I respect what they have to say.

[EasyDoesIt]

So, if you immediately change your dose based on internet comments-no offense to anyone, will you tell your doc that you decided to not follow his protocol? It's 4 weeks 'til bw, not 4 months. If you change dose and don't tell him, how will he interpret your t level at the 4 week mark? I just don't want him to get annoyed and stop treating you.

29 and on lifelong trt-that's another discussion that needs to be addressed.

That was my comment based on bw in 4 weeks, but if you read his endos protocols I really think he needs another endo and there are good ones. I think he's just happy to get test at this point and I can definitely understand his confusion as he has never used before. Knowing what I know now based on his endo's protocol and no need to check e2 and it will not change by taking test, I would be looking for another endo. From his point of view, he is saying what the heck do I do? Listen to what these guys are saying on the internet, because it sounds logical or do I go against the docs advice. If his doc fires him and refers him to another endo he would be lucky. Sorry I keep saying he but I'm on my phone and cant go back to get your name my friend. I would say his approach to research is good and he will figure it out. Problem is at 200mg range he has no AI.

[jay adams]

There's a good thread a few down called "Test Cyp Peak". If you haven't read it it has a chart showing levels ascend and descend after injection.

[jay adams]

I can see by your posts you've done your research. Im sure you've read it.

Congratulations getting your meds.

[Rusty11]

That was my comment based on bw in 4 weeks, but if you read his endos protocols I really think he needs another endo and there are good ones. I think he's just happy to get test at this point and I can definitely understand his confusion as he has never used before. Knowing what I know now based on his endo's protocol and no need to check e2 and it will not change by taking test, I would be looking for another endo. From his point of view, he is saying what the heck do I do? Listen to what these guys are saying on the internet, because it sounds logical or do I go against the docs advice. If his doc fires him and refers him to another endo he would be lucky. Sorry I keep saying he but I'm on my phone and cant go back to get your name my friend. I would say his approach to research is good and he will figure it out. Problem is at 200mg range he has no AI.

Of course I agree that this protocol is probably not needed, his doc sounds like he doesn't have a clue, and that he should look into finding someone more knowledgeable, which is easier said than done. I just thought that 4 weeks wasn't too long of a period to see how things are going.

[Machdiesel]

Yes I've read pretty much everything I can, obviously there's some discrepancy and some is person dependent. What I know for sure is 1x a week is the absolute least you should inject, with Monday morning/Thursday night the consensus for optimal. From anecdotal evidence in posts most people don't feel a fluctuation when injecting 100mg once a week, so again there's some wiggle room. My doc prescribed 200mg a week which I thought was high but was happy it was high instead of low. My doc doesn't seem to interested in follow up and hitting the sweet spot so I'm taking it upon myself to do the safest thing possible for the desired results. I was able to tslk him into a week 4 blood test and to include e2. Now I'm in the position of making my own dosage/frequency so doing my final research before starting. As far as HCG I'm waiting to see where my e2 is and tslk to my endo about that. I don't wanna start asking him for multiple compunds. When I asked about E2 he asked if I was using AAS and seemed to be getting leery. After the week 4 bloods I can go in with actual evidence I need an ai or hcg

[powerlifterty16]

Of course I agree that this protocol is probably not needed, his doc sounds like he doesn't have a clue, and that he should look into finding someone more knowledgeable, which is easier said than done. I just thought that 4 weeks wasn't too long of a period to see how things are going.

once you lose your hair it never comes back. baldness is much more likely on 200 mg than 100 mg.

[Machdiesel]

Thanks a lot guys. I think I am going to do 100mg every 5 days and get tested in 4 weeks. Once I see the numbers I can adjust. Basicslly I'm taking a middle ground. Less dosage but every 5 days, Which is the lowest frequency I'd be comfterble with. I will get tested first thing in the morning on my injection day then go home and inject. Just curious what do you think I will test at doing that protocol. Should I test the day before. Basicslly I want to test high enough not to stir up suspicion but not to high for him to lower the dose.

[jay adams]

Thanks a lot guys. I think I am going to do 100mg every 5 days and get tested in 4 weeks. Once I see the numbers I can adjust. Basicslly I'm taking a middle ground. Less dosage but every 5 days, Which is the lowest frequency I'd be comfterble with. I will get tested first thing in the morning on my injection day then go home and inject. Just curious what do you think I will test at doing that protocol. Should I test the day before. Basicslly I want to test high enough not to stir up suspicion but not to high for him to lower the dose.

actually lowtmike was just saying you need to test at peek time "24/30 hours after injections". After five days your levels will be low again. You want to make sure your levels aren't stratospheric to avoid bad sides. Get your peak then dose closer together to avoid valleys.

You don't want to to have levels in the 3000 during peek just to have normal levels five days later.

[jomamma007]

So, if you immediately change your dose based on internet comments-no offense to anyone, will you tell your doc that you decided to not follow his protocol? It's 4 weeks 'til bw, not 4 months. If you change dose and don't tell him, how will he interpret your t level at the 4 week mark? I just don't want him to get annoyed and stop treating you.

29 and on lifelong trt-that's another discussion that needs to be addressed.

This is the common starting dose that the top TRT physicians in the world use in fact some even use less now, not just recommendations by guys on a forum.
Plus his doctor didn't even want to test estradiol and you're going to tell him to purely listen to him and not take advice from knowledgeable members on here? Most doctors don't know jack squat about trt, most endos as well. 200mgs starting dosage and not testing estrogen, yeah that's a great doc you got there lol .

You could inject every 5 days but 100mgs at once is a pretty hefty dose, if you split it up you'll get less aromatisation reducing the need for an ai. Lastly HCG isn't just for people who want to come off, it has other benefits too. "It mimics LH production and has neurological benefits. You also have LH receptors throughout your body, even in your brain"-Kel

I don't get why your worried your doc wouldn't know the difference, he isn't going to say you have an 800 test level you're only taking 100mgs a week aren't you! I'm pulling your RX. I've seen guys take 300mgs per and be around 400 test levels, others take 80mgs per week and be above 1500, it's rare but it happens. If you're so worried you can pay $50 and get the female hormone panel from private md labs . com

I'm not saying to completely deviate from your physician, but i'd take the advice of a practitioner who dedicates his life to HRT over an endo who only knows about diabetes.

Cheers

[Machdiesel]

actually lowtmike was just saying you need to test at peek time "24/30 hours after injections". After five days your levels will be low again. You want to make sure your levels aren't stratospheric to avoid bad sides. Get your peak then dose closer together to avoid valleys.

You don't want to to have levels in the 3000 during peek just to have normal levels five days later.

So if I decide to inject 50mg every Monday morning and Thursday night when is the best time to get a lab? When you say peak do you mean if I inject on Monday morning and get a test done Monday night, Tuesday morning , wed morning and Thursday morning there would a curve. Monday night the the lowest then levels would continue to rise and Tuesday/wed morning will have the highest numbers then thursday morning would be lower and so on? So if I inject Monday morning I should get a lab done Thursday morning? You think my levels will be over 800?

[Rusty11]

It's just my opinion. I would suggest calling the doc tomorrow and see what he says. Can't hurt. What can hurt is the endo finding out he's doing a different dosage than what was prescribed. But, that's just me; not you. Good luck.