High e2 when on HCG

[gaiao]

Hello everyone! I’m 21, Ive been suffering from ED, depression, no morning wood, weak nocturnal erections and low libido for a long time, and I was never able to build muscle no matter what. So, in june, I finallly decided to see an Urologist to treat the ED.
I had lots of tests done, and the blood tests showed:

Free Testosterone : 0.51 (0.95-4.30)
Total testosterone: 392 (300-1000)
FSH: 1.7 (1.7-11.2)
LH: 1.7 (1.7-11.2)
Estradiol: <25 (20-75)

The other hormones were normal.

He said that the low testosterone was possibly the cause, and that he would put me on HCG and see what happens. I was supposed to take 1500 usp 3 times a week. And come back in 6 weeks to see what happened.
During the second week I was feeling much better, erections were better but not quite good yet. My nipples were a little sore. The blood work after the 6 weeks was:


Free Testosterone: 3.79 (0.95-4.30)
Total testosterone: 1557 (300-1000)
FSH: <1.0 (1.7-11.2)
LH: <0.2 (1.7-11.2)
Estradiol: 116 (20-75)


Seeing that, he reduced the dose to 1000 usp 3 times a week. After that I had to move back to Brazil, and I’ve been trying to find a good endo.
I went to another urologist, he asked more blood work and I got this:

Free Testosterone: 22.7 (3.4-24.6)
Total testosterone: 1041 (241-827)
Estradiol: 223 (<39)

When estradiol was that high, my nipples were very sore, and I had no libido at all.

Then he said I was still taking too much hcg, and lowered the dose to 500 usp 3 times a week.
I was on this dose for 2 weeks, my erections were better, I felt better but my nipples were VERY sore, I couldnt even touch it. So I lowered the dose to 400 usp 3 times a week on my own, I was very afraid of getting men boobs.


Then I found a good endocrinologista (I guess).
He ordered an MRI (it seems I have a tumor in my pituitary gland, he said its nothing to worry about, its pretty common), an ultrasound of my testicles (everything is fine down there), an ultrasound of my nipples (everything is ok)
And more blood work (for a lot of things this time):

Free Testosterone: 18.75 (3.4-24.6)
FSH: 1.14 (1.6-8)
LH: 0.46 (1.7-11.2)
Estradiol: 105 (<39)
Vitamin D: 24.7 (30-100)
Calcium: 4.18 (4.60-5.40)


He prescribed me some vitamin D, and I had another blood work to confirm the blood levels, thats what came up:


Free Testosterone: 23 (2.6 – 16.7)
Estradiol : 90.5 (11.6 – 41.2)


I haven’t seen him yet, but I decided to stop hcg for a week, then lower the dose to 200 usp 3x times a week.
I’ve been very moody lately, Ive been having mood swings and lots of acne on my back and chest... that sucks.
At least my nipples are not sore anymore.

I’ve been reading a lot and I am still not sure how the HCG cause the high e2. What makes sense to me is that I’m producing too much testosterone, then It becomes e2.
But I have seen people saying that HCG causes e2 to go up. Does anyone know for sure?


Does anyone uses HCG only? If so, what dose? Any side effect?

How long does it take for the excess in e2 to leave my body once I stop the medicine?

Thanks

[kelkel]

Intratesticular E2 from HCG will spike in about 24 hrs and it's not that controllable with an AI. And yes, test turns to estrogen as well.
Tumors are not that uncommon (I have one) and if your T production is shut down from it then your option is TRT. If the tumor is larger, usually over 10mm it's called a macroadenoma and surgery may be necessary, case dependent.

It actually sounds like you landed a decent doctor who is on top of things. Definitely get your D up to a respectable range and be sure you test your estrogen with a "sensitive assay" which is more geared to men.

Welcome to the forum gaiao! Others will chime in as well.

[gaiao]

The doctor called me a few minutes ago (I've never seen a doctor do that!). He said I should stop the medication for a month. He wants to see if its the medication that its causing te high e2 or if its a tumor or something else. In case its the medicine, we will try again with lower doses, and if its necessary, he will prescribe an AI (although he said his patients rarely need it).

He said the easiest way would be to use just testosterone , once a month. I asked him about taking it every week, and he said that here its not done like that...

I wanna make the HCG work, it just feels more natural.

Oh and thanks!!

[kelkel]

Well, I now retract my statement that it seems you found a decent doctor. Testosterone once a month shows that he does not understand hormones. Test has a half-life of about 5-7 days, metabolism dependent. Which is why injections need to be weekly at a minimum. Twice weekly with smaller amounts are even better. You would seriously be on a hormonal roller coaster on a protocol such as that. Meaning you'd feel like crap.

Of course it's what your taking causing the high E2. Be sure he gets a sensitive assay to check your E2. Start self educating more as quickly as possible to protect yourself. Read all the sticky threads at the top of this forum. It's a good start. Good luck.

[gaiao]

I've read a lot in the last few weeks, thats why I asked about weekly injections, if we need to move to testosterone injections (HCG is proving really hard to find where I live, I may have to import it from the USA), I will only do it if its weekly. If he doesn't want to do that, well, I will find a doctor that will.

I will go back to see him in about 2 weeks (I will not wait a whole month without taking anything... Don't wanna feel like crap again).


Thanks!

[gaiao]

I had blood work done last saturday (11/16). The results are:

Free testosterone : 7.32 (2.62 - 16.7)
FSH - 1 (1.60 - 8)
LH - 2.11 (1.50 - 9.30)
Estradiol 17 -BETA - E2 : 44.8 (11.6 - 41.2)
VITAMIN D: 34.22 (>30)
Calcium : 4.80 (4.4 - 5.40)

I stopped taking hcg on october 28, on the third week without the medicine I was feeling like crap, no libido, no morning wood, moody, depressed.
So I decided to do the test and start taking the medicine on my own. I'm taking 200 ui, 3x week now (I was taking 400 ui before). I just don't understand why my estradiol is still high... isn't 3 weeks enough to get rid of the excess I had? and I was expecting my free testosterone to be lower than that... It was below the minimum before I started the treatment... Shouldn't I at least have some libido or morning wood with these levels?
Now I'm a little worried that the doctor may not want to treat me anymore since the levels seem normal.


One more question: is this the sensitive estradiol test? whats the diference compared to the normal estradiol test?

[kelkel]

Test level is not great but you need to know your free T. Total Test means nothing without free T. Free T is what works for you.
FSH and LH are still in the toilet.
HCG in and of itself is suppressive to pituitary function. Your hypo/pit sense it does not need to produce it anymore so it slows down.
Does not appear to be the correct test but it is not high either like you keep suggesting. We need estrogen to be healthy.
D is still in the toilet. Take more and do so with meals as it's fat soluble.
HCG does not offer the same subjective benefits as testosterone therapy does.

[gaiao]

Test level is not great but you need to know your free T. Total Test means nothing without free T. Free T is what works for you.
FSH and LH are still in the toilet.
HCG in and of itself is suppressive to pituitary function. Your hypo/pit sense it does not need to produce it anymore so it slows down.
Does not appear to be the correct test but it is not high either like you keep suggesting. We need estrogen to be healthy.
D is still in the toilet. Take more and do so with meals as it's fat soluble.
HCG does not offer the same subjective benefits as testosterone therapy does.

Thanks for answering!
That is my free testosterone . The doctor said total testosterone is not important, so he didn't want to test it.
I've been taking 50 mcg of vitamin D daily. I guess my body doesn't absorve it very well.

What do you mean when you say that HCG doesn't offer the same benefits as trt? Since hcg will make my body produce testosterone, then why shouldn't I have the same benefits? (when I started the treatment, before my e2 goes up past the 200, I was horny like hell and having the best erections in months).

My FSH and LH were shity before I started treatment.. My doctors said that my pituitary doesn't produce enough of them, so I don't think they will ever rise.