please read this dumb study

[dreadnok89]

Testosterone treatments linked with heart risks - Yahoo Finance


can this be serious?

[Money Talks]

I like this quote

Hormone users and nonusers were in their early 60s on average, and most had other health problems including high blood pressure, unhealthy cholesterol and diabetes.

lol, but it was the testosterone that caused those guys the problems.....lol

[Bonaparte]

That's an article, not a study.
And TBH, if you ignore the bit of spin, it is accurate and the numbers speak for themselves (showing a small increase in adverse events over a 3 year period for a bunch of old, disease-ridden men).
The only thing an informed and rational person should take from this is that supplementing with testosterone may increase your risk of heart attack et al. if you're in poor shape. But this can be accounted for by high E2, an increase in sexual or physical exertion, and a bunch of other factors.

[dreadnok89]

But still gives hrt a bad name..

[APIs]

"All had undergone a heart imaging test and many had risk factors for heart problems, including blocked heart arteries."

LOL, this was another great line in the article as well. It reads like a clinical study performed on the walking-dead.

I'd love to see what other risk-factors were present in the study population which they conveniently excluded; eating habits, fitness levels, tobacco use, drinking habits & other meds being taken...

[Juced_porkchop]

BS study manipulated into what they wanted to say... seen this posted at other forums already too...

[LowT Mike]

BS study manipulated into what they wanted to say... seen this posted at other forums already too...

Unfortunatly This type of article sets us back in this field all due to poorly gathered data from suboptimal therapies done by untrained doctors. It only takes 1 bad apple to spoil the bunch. These reports are not controlled clinical studies but rather articles of gathered census data that you are hearing. BIG DIFFERENCE when deciding accuracy of findings. For every 1 article that shows negative results of TRT we can show you 10 medical studies that say the opposite.

Many things give off red flags when reading this article.

If you read the article closely and do a little math you were find only 240 men out of 6000 that were ill with heart problem and had angiograpy 2.4 years before they died or suffered more heart problems. Ms.Bahar Gholipour the staff doesn't make clear how many actually died out of the 6000. She does at the end of the article admit she doesn't have a clue as to the problems if any that may be encounted by healthy men and how many are helped by testosterone therapy

This is a bad bad study and should of never been published. There are many ACCURATE clinical studies that show high serum testosterone is directly correlated with reduced risks of cardiovascular events in elderly men. When treatment is done properly you’ll generally see cholesterol improve, blood pressure improve and higher heart ejection fraction.

Ref. http://content.onlinejacc.org/articl...icleid=1146860

The doctors that monitored these men in this particular article who had a cardiovascular event made many pitfalls within their treatment and the men who had cardiovascular events were already in a morbidly high risk state for such an event.

First in the vast majority of the patients they only got their testosterone levels to the bottom of the reference range (332 mg/dL). This is by no means optimal. We aim at total testosterone blood levels above 600 ng/dL). These men are considered to still be hypogonadal. Hypogonadism has been reported to increase cardiovascular events. Under treating men with prior history of heart disease may be worse than not treating them at all. Most of these men with history of heart disease remained hypogonadal even on testosterone treatment.

Also, They were not correctly monitored for hematocrit and estrogen which is most important during testosterone treatment. Common knowledge by most trained doctors. Hematocrit over 55% and high estrogen you run the risk of blood clot, DVT, stroke and heart attack. Very easy to treat for both of these. A blood draw a couple times a year lowers hematocrit and a safe anti-estrogen medication is prescribed if estrogen is elevated.

Ref. Circulating estradiol and mortality in men with systoli... [JAMA. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

The majority of the patients were also using testosterone patches. (testosterone patches are no longer used since they are sub-optimal therapy). This administration method is 8-10 years out dated. Patches can cause an imbalance in DHT metabolites that has also been linked to cardiovascular events. Luckily, the VA hospital system is probably now not mandating the use of patches as the main option for testosterone replacement in their medication formularies.

Article findings--Of 7486 patients not receiving testosterone therapy , 681 died, 420 had MIs, and 486 had strokes. So, 21 percent of men not using testosterone had a cardiovascular event.
Among 1223 patients receiving testosterone therapy, 67 died, 23 had MIs, and 33 had strokes. So, 10 percent of men using testosterone had a cardiovascular event.
40 % were not retested for testosterone so no one knows if they were taking testosterone and what their levels were after they started therapy.

The treatment of these men clearly did not follow recommended guidelines. Ill let you now draw your own conclusion.

Ref http://stg.jfponline.com/pdf/5912/5912JFP_ClinInq3.pdf

[dreadnok89]

Nice info mike, my favorite thing is the jerk off commentor at the bottom that's says if you want high testosterone go for a jog. Lol when was it ever about high testosterone ?

[LowT Mike]

Medical Ignorance. None of these doctors or clinical researchers have clearly gone to one A4m meeting or conference to actually learn the right way to do this. They learn TRT from the andro gel rep. Sad

[dreadnok89]

Hey mike, am I weird if I like androgel better? I don't feel Anything off of shots

[APIs]

Dr. Sanjay Gupta mentioned this study on CNN this morning. I was happy to hear him state the study was only observational in nature, the men had heart disease & the fact that nothing was known about the men's other habits which may have contributed to these episodes...

[juice2012]

Here is another link:

AnticoagulationHUB: Testosterone for ‘low T’ raises death, MI, and stroke risk

[dreadnok89]

Sigh, such nonsense. Man this country really dislikes men.

[LowT Mike]

Hey mike, am I weird if I like androgel better? I don't feel Anything off of shots

Nope not weird at all. Its not one size fits all all. I know a handful of guys that actually prefer creams and gels to shots. Its not many but thats what this is all about...finding a protocol and T administration where you are symptom free of andropause .

[dreadnok89]

Nope not weird at all. Its not one size fits all all. I know a handful of guys that actually prefer creams and gels to shots. Its not many but thats what this is all about...finding a protocol and T administration where you are symptom free of andropause.

As long as it gets you the numbers you want correct?

[2Sox]

Nope not weird at all. Its not one size fits all all. I know a handful of guys that actually prefer creams and gels to shots. Its not many but thats what this is all about...finding a protocol and T administration where you are symptom free of andropause.

I actually like Androgel a lot. But I had to apply between 3-4 pumps a day to get me to the place where I felt good. I also understand that for some reason men become desensitized to gel after awhile. Maybe that's why I had to apply more to get to my sweet spot. DHT levels are brought higher on gel so I definitely felt more sexually attuned - but not that much more than shots. The downside is that I was paying $175 a month for two bottles of Androgel. Injections cost me about $10 a month at my dose. No contest.