frustrated with trt therapy

[clike]

i have been on testosterone cyp on and off for a little over a year now and about to give up. I have been to countless dr.s with not much help any advise would be appreciated. I have always had some problems with gyno but the cyp is making it worse. I have been taking 20mg of tamoxifen with it and its doing nothing. I just had a new dr. prescribe me arimidex the problem is if the tamoxifen didn't work how is the arimdex going to work? also they keep lowering my cyp. I actually feel better mentally on a lower dose. has anyone else had these problems with gyno? im really getting depressed over this. current dose of cyp is 0.5 of 200mg a week. thanks

[Brett N]

Sucks that you are having these problems. Are these doctors you are going to covered by your insurance? Who is referring these docs to you?

Bloodwork is the key. If you are having problems with gyno I would most certainly think that your bloodwork would reveal high estrogen conversion which my TRT doc prescribes anastrozole. If you aren't covered by insurance for TRT, you may want to check out LowT.com. Not saying they are the only ones who can do a good job but they are definitely specialized in a TRT protocol that seems to be working for a lot of people. (myself included)

100mg of test c a week is a pretty standard dose of test. That is what I was started on and am continuing to take. Along with HCG 250iu 2x a week and 1/4mg of anastrozole a week.

[Megalodon6]

>>>>> lowt.com they're awesome my friend!

[jasondd1]

Post full bloods. These guys can help but only with full bloods

[clike]

thanks for your response. when I was on 100mg a week my e2 was 30 and at that time my dr wouldn't give me anything. yes these dr.s were covered by insurance.

[jomamma007]

a regular e2 panel at 30 is fine.... sensitive panel would probably put you around 10-15, which is low... Just from my personal experience.

[gatornate97]

a regular e2 panel at 30 is fine.... sensitive panel would probably put you around 10-15, which is low... Just from my personal experience.

I'm at 19 on a sensitive. I believe 20-30 on sensitive is where you want to be. Is that correct?

[kelkel]

i have been on testosterone cyp on and off for a little over a year now and about to give up. I have been to countless dr.s with not much help any advise would be appreciated. I have always had some problems with gyno but the cyp is making it worse. I have been taking 20mg of tamoxifen with it and its doing nothing. I just had a new dr. prescribe me arimidex the problem is if the tamoxifen didn't work how is the arimdex going to work? also they keep lowering my cyp. I actually feel better mentally on a lower dose. has anyone else had these problems with gyno? im really getting depressed over this. current dose of cyp is 0.5 of 200mg a week. thanks

Why "on and off" test?
What is your app BF% I ask as many perceive a little extra body fat as gyno. Gyno = lump
Tamox is a serm and will block estrogen from binding at chest receptors. Over time it can help to reverse gyno. A step above tamox is Raloxifene.
Don't use Adex until you know your exact E2 level. You need a sensitive assay. I can provide you Labcorp codes if you like.
Splitting your dose in half and injecting every 3.5 days would be prudent as well. Easier to manage estrogen and maintains more consistent T levels.
Think of it this way: less injected = less spike in E.
Good that you realize you feel better on a lower dose. Too many start with a more is better philosophy and pay a price later.

Welcome to the forum clike!

[kelkel]

I'm at 19 on a sensitive. I believe 20-30 on sensitive is where you want to be. Is that correct?

That is what LEF recommends but it is subjective to how "you" feel. You are not a number. Some do better a bit higher.

[jomamma007]

would you say some feel better lower as well?
Is there any merit that younger guys will most likely feel better at the lower end of the range?

[kelkel]

I felt fine at 16. But feel better a bit higher. We are all different. Don't see the merit in younger - lower.

[dreadnok89]

Feeling and longterm effects are different. Apparently running low for a longtime is bad for your bones

[clike]

I was on off again because they kept trying me on different gels that didn't work. i also kept getting anxiety attacks when i was injecting 100mg a week.

[dreadnok89]

I was on off again because they kept trying me on different gels that didn't work. i also kept getting anxiety attacks when i was injecting 100mg a week.

Do you think that's a high amount? Could be your mind getting to you. First time I even did the gels I got anxiety, then I realized I was fine and never got them again. Their is a lot of negative information about testosterone floating around. It can make a person nervous to use it

[clike]

i do know some of my labs.
trt
testosterone 299
free test 8.2
fsh 1.9
lh 3.1
prolactin6.2


after trt
testosterone 794
prolactin 11
estradiol 32
estrone, serum 74
psa 0.5


as you can see they tested some before trt and not some after

[kelkel]

Feeling and longterm effects are different. Apparently running low for a longtime is bad for your bones

Correct. For me that was a natural level (no AI's) with about 3-4 months of back to back testing. I subsequently took action to raise it and now keep it around 24 or so.

I was on off again because they kept trying me on different gels that didn't work. i also kept getting anxiety attacks when i was injecting 100mg a week.

Some people just absorb it poorly. Consider twice weekly Sub-Q injections into belly fat. Much easier, tiny needle and is a medically accepted protocol.

[clike]

no I don't think that's a high amount. I actually felt stronger and had more energy I would just get nervous and shaky and sometimes get an anxiety attack.

[clike]

I understand tamoxifen and arimidex are different any ideas why tamoxifen wasn't blocking gyno from getting worse? dr.s said it was tissue

[kelkel]

Tamox takes time to build up serum levels. Normally a 20mg dose is sufficient although it's not uncommon to start with 40mg for a brief period. It also takes several weeks for it to lessen "sensitivity" in the area. Often times the sensitivity is thought to be growth. Not saying it isn't, just letting you know.

If the tissue is hard and fibrous then it's gyno. If that is the case, look into Raloxifene and possibly Andractim Gel.

[kelkel]

no I don't think that's a high amount. I actually felt stronger and had more energy I would just get nervous and shaky and sometimes get an anxiety attack.

Understood. It's why I'm suggesting the SQ protocol. Tiny, tiny needle which you won't feel. Much easier for many people and proven effective.

[Tnatious]

Hey Clike man I know it can be SOOOO frustrating bro! I'm just now moving up to Injections from Cream (no not gel...cream bro!!! Lmao)! If u don't mind I am no expert man and I honestly want to help man. And I know that lil guy KelKel will keep my points in line and will let u know if I'm wrong... I have been studying my ass of bud and this is about all I can say...
First, your prolactin went up from 6.2 to 11. The ideal range (and of course I'm sure u know...we are all different...is 2.1-5 ng/mL) u were on the high end before starting... Read up on prolactin bud! Not to scare ya but "may promote breast and prostate growth". May want to read and ask doc about 2.5 mg 1x/day Paralodel (bromocriptine mesylate).
EstrAdiol 32...(try to get it between 10-30)
Estrone 74...(again let's try to get it 10-30)
How???? Well man my levels before starting TRT
Me:
EstrAdiol 26.3 down to 19.6
ESTRONE 123 up to 174!!!!
Say what???? Knock on wood I have no gynecomesia!
BUT I will learn how to lower this!!! I'm taking Arimidex .25 mg 3x week ! And still crazy high numbers!!!
I recommend (as I'm starting it tmrw) 1 tbs Organic Golden Flaxseed MEAL 2xdaily!!!! I will stay in touch with u man because maybe when can help each other??? Cool??
Your Test levels are great bro! But have the doc check your Free Test since starting treatment. Reason being (and maybe you already know) but Free Testosterone is the # is men should really look at bro!!! Forget total! Okay? We actually use our Free Test and the Total Test is like a bank vault saving our stuff:-)
Your LH and FSH are a tad low man!!! Are you running HCG ? If not...do so!!!! And actually KelKel was the guy who told me the doc was making me take too much!!! I was originall prescribed 500mg MWF and have since lowered it to half that amount:-) feel good and the stuff last double to amount of time:-)
Last thing bud..ask your doc to check your Progesterone levels my man!!! Serious!!! Cause I didn't see anything on your list! That # will be the most important # you have if estrogen is your concern bro!!! I hope Kelkel agrees with me on this one....reason being...Progesterone is a hormone that helps PREVENT AROMATIZATION of testosterone to ESTROGENS & PROTECTS against prostate cancer!!!! If your levels are off on this bad lil hormone...ask doc about Progesterone Cream either 25mg or 10mg 1/2 mL daily.
Like is stated Clike. I have only been reading and learning as much as I can absorb the last 4 months bud. And that goes for anyone...if anyone finds an error with my recommendations, please please make me and OP aware. I only wanna help and be helped.

[clike]

Thank you guys very much for your help. My Dr. never checked progesterone, hell I had to ask for him to check my E.

[dreadnok89]

Hey Clike man I know it can be SOOOO frustrating bro! I'm just now moving up to Injections from Cream (no not gel...cream bro!!! Lmao)! If u don't mind I am no expert man and I honestly want to help man. And I know that lil guy KelKel will keep my points in line and will let u know if I'm wrong... I have been studying my ass of bud and this is about all I can say...
First, your prolactin went up from 6.2 to 11. The ideal range (and of course I'm sure u know...we are all different...is 2.1-5 ng/mL) u were on the high end before starting... Read up on prolactin bud! Not to scare ya but "may promote breast and prostate growth". May want to read and ask doc about 2.5 mg 1x/day Paralodel (bromocriptine mesylate).
EstrAdiol 32...(try to get it between 10-30)
Estrone 74...(again let's try to get it 10-30)
How???? Well man my levels before starting TRT
Me:
EstrAdiol 26.3 down to 19.6
ESTRONE 123 up to 174!!!!
Say what???? Knock on wood I have no gynecomesia!
BUT I will learn how to lower this!!! I'm taking Arimidex .25 mg 3x week ! And still crazy high numbers!!!
I recommend (as I'm starting it tmrw) 1 tbs Organic Golden Flaxseed MEAL 2xdaily!!!! I will stay in touch with u man because maybe when can help each other??? Cool??
Your Test levels are great bro! But have the doc check your Free Test since starting treatment. Reason being (and maybe you already know) but Free Testosterone is the # is men should really look at bro!!! Forget total! Okay? We actually use our Free Test and the Total Test is like a bank vault saving our stuff:-)
Your LH and FSH are a tad low man!!! Are you running HCG ? If not...do so!!!! And actually KelKel was the guy who told me the doc was making me take too much!!! I was originall prescribed 500mg MWF and have since lowered it to half that amount:-) feel good and the stuff last double to amount of time:-)
Last thing bud..ask your doc to check your Progesterone levels my man!!! Serious!!! Cause I didn't see anything on your list! That # will be the most important # you have if estrogen is your concern bro!!! I hope Kelkel agrees with me on this one....reason being...Progesterone is a hormone that helps PREVENT AROMATIZATION of testosterone to ESTROGENS & PROTECTS against prostate cancer!!!! If your levels are off on this bad lil hormone...ask doc about Progesterone Cream either 25mg or 10mg 1/2 mL daily.
Like is stated Clike. I have only been reading and learning as much as I can absorb the last 4 months bud. And that goes for anyone...if anyone finds an error with my recommendations, please please make me and OP aware. I only wanna help and be helped.

Lh and fh are always gonna be low to 0 on hrt. Hcg only mimics doesn't replace.

[clike]

>>>>> lowt.com they're awesome my friend!

they don't have a clinic in my area. thanks tho

[clike]

Understood. It's why I'm suggesting the SQ protocol. Tiny, tiny needle which you won't feel. Much easier for many people and proven effective.

thanks. I think today im gonna try the .25 arimidex with my shot and see how I feel. the dr. prescribed me 1mg a day but I have read that is way to much.

[kelkel]

Your doc is uneducated in Adex if he wants you to take 1mg per day. Consider the avg 500mg per week test cycle dosage of adex is .25 eod. Do the math.
I still don't really understand why you think you need an AI? Get a sensitive E2 assay first. If you think there's a problem reduce your dosage slightly. You already said you felt better at a lower level. Judge by how you feel, not a number on a chart which is just a snapshot in time.

[clike]

Your doc is uneducated in Adex if he wants you to take 1mg per day. Consider the avg 500mg per week test cycle dosage of adex is .25 eod. Do the math.
I still don't really understand why you think you need an AI? Get a sensitive E2 assay first. If you think there's a problem reduce your dosage slightly. You already said you felt better at a lower level. Judge by how you feel, not a number on a chart which is just a snapshot in time.

thanks for your input. I took .50 cyp tonight with 0.25 adex

[kelkel]

thanks for your input. I took .50 cyp tonight with 0.25 adex

Ok. If you take adex in the future do it one day after your test shot. It helps to time the peak and make it more effective for you.

[caira1074]

how do you raise estrogen levels

[clike]

Your doc is uneducated in Adex if he wants you to take 1mg per day. Consider the avg 500mg per week test cycle dosage of adex is .25 eod. Do the math.
I still don't really understand why you think you need an AI? Get a sensitive E2 assay first. If you think there's a problem reduce your dosage slightly. You already said you felt better at a lower level. Judge by how you feel, not a number on a chart which is just a snapshot in time.

I thought I would try a AI because of the gyno and to keep estrogen down because I was feeling worse when my t levels were normal. thought maybe high estrogen was the cause.

[dreadnok89]

I thought I would try a AI because of the gyno and to keep estrogen down because I was feeling worse when my t levels were normal. thought maybe high estrogen was the cause.

Or your too low! You could be killing yourself. Have you had gyno before? It are you overweight?

[kelkel]

how do you raise estrogen levels

Slightly increase T dosage. Supplementing with DHEA will also increase it.

[clike]

Or your too low! You could be killing yourself. Have you had gyno before? It are you overweight?

yes I have always had some gyno but it got worse when I started this. not really over weight 6ft 185pnds 34 waist

[jungle1]

how did you become low on t, did you do a cycle. or is it just natural decline? if you dnt mind me asking

[dreadnok89]

yes I have always had some gyno but it got worse when I started this. not really over weight 6ft 185pnds 34 waist

If you weigh that much couldn't diet and cardio get rid of it? Or did you get it from using roids?

[clike]

how did you become low on t, did you do a cycle. or is it just natural decline? if you dnt mind me asking

natural decline

[clike]

If you weigh that much couldn't diet and cardio get rid of it? Or did you get it from using roids?

I have always had some gyno but it seems to have gotten worse on test cyp.

[JD250]

You need current blood work and I mean the CORRECT tests, not what an unfamiliar doc says. If you have current, post it up with the ranges. Guessing with your health is a BAD idea!!!

[clike]

You need current blood work and I mean the CORRECT tests, not what an unfamiliar doc says. If you have current, post it up with the ranges. Guessing with your health is a BAD idea!!!

yes. you are right. what day should I get blood work on after I take a shot? what about progesterone levels?

[JD250]

Privatelabs has a whole list of male hormone tests to choose from