Dr says no to TRT

[r_dubb]

I had a blood panel taken back in August. The results of my testosterone level was 384ng/dl. The dr did not check my free test, estradiol, prolactin or anything else. I am 30 years old and had to clarify with my new General Care doc that while that level fell in the "normal" range it was very low for my age. He then sent me to an endocrinologist.

Today I met the endo who conceded that my t level was significantly low for my age. He then said "what do I do? Put you on testosterone for the rest of your life? I don't know what 50 years of being on would do to you so I can't in good conscious give it to you".

After me requesting he is ordering a blood panel for estradiol, free test, prolactin etc.

Kinda curious what the opinion about what the endo had to say with regard to not providing any therapy (I'm skeptical that regardless of my new test results that he will change his mind).

[bass]

he really needs to do a complete male hormone panel including thyroid, even an MRI to rule in/out pituitary tumors then take the appropriate action. without seeing a complete BW no one can really suggest anything except telling you to find a knowledgeable doctor.

[xcraider37]

I had a blood panel taken back in August. The results of my testosterone level was 384ng/dl. The dr did not check my free test, estradiol, prolactin or anything else. I am 30 years old and had to clarify with my new General Care doc that while that level fell in the "normal" range it was very low for my age. He then sent me to an endocrinologist.

Today I met the endo who conceded that my t level was significantly low for my age. He then said "what do I do? Put you on testosterone for the rest of your life? I don't know what 50 years of being on would do to you so I can't in good conscious give it to you".

After me requesting he is ordering a blood panel for estradiol, free test, prolactin etc.

Kinda curious what the opinion about what the endo had to say with regard to not providing any therapy (I'm skeptical that regardless of my new test results that he will change his mind).

Agree with bass, also make sure you are getting early morning blood drawn for testosterone.

[Machdiesel]

Seems like a very reasonable answerz from Your Dr. In reality we dont know what 50 years on T will do and theres probally more danger then some on here like to think. That being said see another Dr, it's your body and your choice. With those numbers I thnk most docs will be very reluctant but I'm sure you will find one in your area

[dreadnok89]

There is no normal range. Its all individual

[bass]

Seems like a very reasonable answerz from Your Dr. In reality we dont know what 50 years on T will do and theres probally more danger then some on here like to think. That being said see another Dr, it's your body and your choice. With those numbers I thnk most docs will be very reluctant but I'm sure you will find one in your area

steroids been used for almost 100 years, today we have bodybuilders over 70 years old and still kicking! and bodybuilder take 10 times more the amounts of TRT, and most go on TRT after retirement!

[Machdiesel]

steroids been used for almost 100 years, today we have bodybuilders over 70 years old and still kicking! and bodybuilder take 10 times more the amounts of TRT, and most go on TRT after retirement!

We also have a lot of people with health problems who used. I'm not saying its a death sentence I'm saying from a docs point of view there's very little evidence in a clinical setting. I don't think he can use your reasoning to prescribe test. With trt rates rising why don't we have more studies. I'd be more then happy for follow up with a doc twice a year to monitor me and have an actual long term study

[bass]

We also have a lot of people with health problems who used. I'm not saying its a death sentence I'm saying from a docs point of view there's very little evidence in a clinical setting. I don't think he can use your reasoning to prescribe test. With trt rates rising why don't we have more studies. I'd be more then happy for follow up with a doc twice a year to monitor me and have an actual long term study

many docs will disagree with you.

[Machdiesel]

Bass I'm not an expert at all, just a guy on TRT who read every single thing he could for six months before deciding to go on TRT. I really hope you are right, but you must admit at the very least trt can increase your chances of some serious conditions. Without propel run studies I don't think it's fair to say its 100% safe or very dangerous. So far the evidence is dwf in favor of it being safe, which is why I decided to finally get pn

[bass]

its perfectly fine to be concerned of course. just saying there are many doctors out there who believe and based on studies that it is far more dangerous to live with low T than being on TRT. if you're destined to have cancer you'll get with or without TRT, but I have a good reason to believe based on the studies I've read that your chances are better to beat cancer being on TRT. the biggest health issue is diabetes, it is the source of all diseases, and TRT is known to fix diabetes or stop it from developing. also, many studies have showed men that died from heart attacks have one thing in common, low T!

I am not saying your concern has no merit, on the contrary, but what I am pointing out is life can be far more dangerous for a man with low T then being on TRT.

[Beethoven]

its perfectly fine to be concerned of course. just saying there are many doctors out there who believe and based on studies that it is far more dangerous to live with low T than being on TRT. if you're destined to have cancer you'll get with or without TRT, but I have a good reason to believe based on the studies I've read that your chances are better to beat cancer being on TRT. the biggest health issue is diabetes, it is the source of all diseases, and TRT is known to fix diabetes or stop it from developing. also, many studies have showed men that died from heart attacks have one thing in common, low T!

I am not saying your concern has no merit, on the contrary, but what I am pointing out is life can be far more dangerous for a man with low T then being on TRT.

Agree with Bass. My original PCP had mentioned all the health problems and risks from having low t. It's not just for banging out woods, (although that's nice) but necessary for many other functions for a healthy life. I think we all wish we didn't have to do trt but at least we're better off than the generation before us that didn't have trt.

[bass]

my father-in-law who was 4" taller than me is now 4" shorter! he's 95 years old! I wonder if he would have kept his bones and size from shrinking if he was put on TRT!

[NEFLRick]

Another thing to keep in mind is, if you're on TRT through a doctor (not just on your own), you'll be getting regular bloodwork done and seeing the doctor regularly. I'm thinking my chances of catching something before it gets so bad it's too late are much higher for someone who is seeing a doctor regularly. I know I would be doing bw nearly as often (maybe once a year).

I've done a lot of researching before deciding to do TRT. I'm very overly-cautious when it comes to things like this. I've read studies saying one thing then read another one which says the exact opposite. Quite frankly, the studies are about as biased as anything can be because they're funded by someone who has an agenda (whether good or bad). Add to that how studies are done and it's very difficult to know which study to believe (and which not to). So I'm just sort of reading everything I can, speaking with others who know more than I do--like around here--and trying to be somewhere in the middle.

Regardless of what you decide, it's rolling the dice one way or another. It's really a shame the medical community has become so compromised (not talking about the individual docs but the big picture). As an example, it was just announced they're changing the guidelines for cholesterol meds. Now, about twice the amount of people who are on them will be on them based on these guidelines. You think the companies who make those drugs have something to do with this?

Ok, I'll get off the soapbox and leave it to those of you who are more knowledgable than I am.

[2Sox]

Seems like a very reasonable answerz from Your Dr. In reality we dont know what 50 years on T will do and theres probally more danger then some on here like to think. That being said see another Dr, it's your body and your choice. With those numbers I thnk most docs will be very reluctant but I'm sure you will find one in your area

Well, I certainly plan on being around for another 50 years to see the results. I have every confidence that TRT will give me a longer, healthier life. Let's see, what's 50 plus 66.....?

[bass]

in defense of the stickies they were here way back when, years before the owner of this site went into TRT business.

[Beethoven]

NErick now I'm going to get on my soapbox , political correctness today has run amuck. The template today regarding AAS is that they are for "cheaters" in sports. Where "bullying" going on in a sport where your job is to bully and beat down your opponent. AAS doesn't fit the template when something positive as trt is concerned, that's why so little education IMHO. We are all expected to be in touch with our "feminine" side and all that. The classic male of my youth would probably considered a schovanist pig today. Sorry for the ramble...

[r_dubb]

I really appreciate everyone's responses. I having my hcg , estradiol,fsh, Lh, test (free and total) and alpha feto protein tumor marker checked. After I get these results and go over them with the dr i will update.

[Beethoven]

I really appreciate everyone's responses. I having my hcg, estradiol,fsh, Lh, test (free and total) and alpha feto protein tumor marker checked. After I get these results and go over them with the dr i will update.

Good luck.....

[NEFLRick]

NErick now I'm going to get on my soapbox , political correctness today has run amuck. The template today regarding AAS is that they are for "cheaters" in sports. Where "bullying" going on in a sport where your job is to bully and beat down your opponent. AAS doesn't fit the template when something positive as trt is concerned, that's why so little education IMHO. We are all expected to be in touch with our "feminine" side and all that. The classic male of my youth would probably considered a schovanist pig today. Sorry for the ramble...

I can't agree with you more. I could go on about this problem--having 2 kids--but I'll not bore anyone or hijack the thread (further anyway).

[r_dubb]

I forgot to include what symptoms I suffer from. I am constantly tired, my bf% continually rises even tho I eat well, strength train (5/3/1) along with hiit cardio. My sex drive is nowhere near what it was (sex maybe once a week-ten days) I don't get morning or random erections and I feel my male "swagger" or whatever is going down. I feel way more omega and less alpha than I did even in my mid 20's.

I understand that as I age these things diminish but I'm only 30.

[Beethoven]

I forgot to include what symptoms I suffer from. I am constantly tired, my bf% continually rises even tho I eat well, strength train (5/3/1) along with hiit cardio. My sex drive is nowhere near what it was (sex maybe once a week-ten days) I don't get morning or random erections and I feel my male "swagger" or whatever is going down. I feel way more omega and less alpha than I did even in my mid 20's.

I understand that as I age these things diminish but I'm only 30.

I hear you brother.

[snowblowjoe]

If your doc refuses to give you trt why don't you ask one of the vets about a hcg /raloxifene protocol. Hcg helps your sack produce natty test and so does raloxifene. My test levels were high at 860 and all I ran was raloxifene.

[r_dubb]

Sorry to keep dragging this post up before I get the more thorough bw done but I had a question/thought/bitch.

While I was in the waiting room to see the endo, there was a chick that looked like a 15 year old boy and was clearly going through whatever identity change is called. She was there for her testosterone injection and was scheduling her next one as well.

While I could give a shit about whatever whoever wants to do with their own body/ life, it floors me that if a chick wants to become a dude, then she can get testosterone therapy but if I need (and obviously want) it, it's taboo and "too dangerous" .

Do these chicks have to stay on t their whole life to maintain their male status or whatever it's called? How in the hell is that safe and politically correct?

[Beethoven]

Sorry to keep dragging this post up before I get the more thorough bw done but I had a question/thought/bitch.

While I was in the waiting room to see the endo, there was a chick that looked like a 15 year old boy and was clearly going through whatever identity change is called. She was there for her testosterone injection and was scheduling her next one as well.

While I could give a shit about whatever whoever wants to do with their own body/ life, it floors me that if a chick wants to become a dude, then she can get testosterone therapy but if I need (and obviously want) it, it's taboo and "too dangerous" .

Do these chicks have to stay on t their whole life to maintain their male status or whatever it's called? How in the hell is that safe and politically correct?

I hear you. I've ranted on that before as well. That falls under my rant earlier in this thread. WE are not the politically correct usage for AAS, but, as you mentioned if you are a female wishing to become a male, no problem. Maybe you should tell your Dr that you were previously a female and you want to be an alpha male......

[snowblowjoe]

Good observation.

[r_dubb]

Just got off the phone with the endo. The results he gave me over the phone were;

Total test- 340
Free- 44
Prolactin- 8.0
Estradiol- 13
LH- 5.5

My last test (as mentioned previously only was for total test) was I believe in August and my total T was 384.

Dr said that he believes it's a pituitary issue and while he has an MRI scheduled, he's saying that I'm too young to treat. Even though my test went from low to lower.

He's mailing me the complete results so I'll post those up when I get them.

[Beethoven]

Just got off the phone with the endo. The results he gave me over the phone were;

Total test- 340
Free- 44
Prolactin- 8.0
Estradiol- 13
LH- 5.5

My last test (as mentioned previously only was for total test) was I believe in August and my total T was 384.

Dr said that he believes it's a pituitary issue and while he has an MRI scheduled, he's saying that I'm too young to treat. Even though my test went from low to lower.

He's mailing me the complete results so I'll post those up when I get them.

Don't rush it. Everything should be exhausted before trt. You don't want to potentially cause anymore damage in the meantime. Patience.

[JD250]

I've experienced what I call "the dark years" and i'll tell you straight up that I will take 30 more years of trt followed by death than even dream of suffering through another day of having low T.... that's all good and well but the fact is that there are many years of good studies that have been done that show TRT to be a good thing.... on the other hand LOW T has been proven to KILL you. Make a choice and live well my friend!!

[r_dubb]

I got the full report in the mail today, this is how it reads.


Total test 340ng/dL (348-1197)
Free test (dialysis) 1.3% (1.5-3.2%)
Free test serum 44pg/mL (52-280)
Estradiol 13pg/mL (8.0-35)
Prolactin 8.0pg/mL (3-18)
AFP, serum, tumor marker 1.5ng/mL (0.0-8.0)
Luteinizing hormone 5.5mIu/mL (1.7-8.6)
FSH 4.8 (1.5-12.4)
hCG , beta subunit, serum <1mIU/mL (0-3)

[r_dubb]

The anti aging clinic prescribed 100mg blend test cyp/enth 1x a week
750iu hcg 3x a week
1mg adex 1x a week

I've been on this protocol 3 full weeks now and I've already noticed tenderness and what feels like a lump under my right nipple (I've fought gyno in the past on aas cycles).

I'm curious if I need to up the adex? Why am I having gyno sides on such a small dose of test

[Times Roman]

I had a blood panel taken back in August. The results of my testosterone level was 384ng/dl. The dr did not check my free test, estradiol, prolactin or anything else. I am 30 years old and had to clarify with my new General Care doc that while that level fell in the "normal" range it was very low for my age. He then sent me to an endocrinologist.

Today I met the endo who conceded that my t level was significantly low for my age. He then said "what do I do? Put you on testosterone for the rest of your life? I don't know what 50 years of being on would do to you so I can't in good conscious give it to you".

After me requesting he is ordering a blood panel for estradiol, free test, prolactin etc.

Kinda curious what the opinion about what the endo had to say with regard to not providing any therapy (I'm skeptical that regardless of my new test results that he will change his mind).

Strike One.
30 is still a fairly young age to being a treatment for the rest of your life. Did you know that people alive today, on average, have a 1 in 4 chance of seeing 100? 70 years is a long time to be on treatment.

Strike Two.
You are almost twice the blood level I was at when I started. Just shy of 400 is not all that low.

So you have two strikes against you.

How are the rest of the typical symptoms?

Low Libido?
Carrying around much BF%
Lethargic/Low energy levels


So let me ask you. Why did you have your panels checked in the first place?

[r_dubb]

My panels were checked as part of a new patient assessment at a gcp. The dr that has me on this protocol is only trying to get my levels up to 600ish and she's checking my Bw after four months.

I had low libido and my bf wasn't proportionate to my training and diet efforts.

[toofatbuilder]

At 23 my numbers were 257 and the doctor tried androjel first. I went without anything due to lack of insurance for a while, then I ran a 100mg/ml 1 unit eod for Bout 6 weeks and. me off. It was just so so. Then I ran a full cycle of 1 unit twice a week of 400 mg/ml of test e. with deca and that made me feel great again. A year went by and I got my ins back. She ran my tests and my levels are now 238 at 30 years old. She got me on 1/2 a unit row eow of test c. Gonna see how it goes for 2 months then 're test.

[Ryanmcd]

We also have a lot of people with health problems who used. I'm not saying its a death sentence I'm saying from a docs point of view there's very little evidence in a clinical setting. I don't think he can use your reasoning to prescribe test. With trt rates rising why don't we have more studies. I'd be more then happy for follow up with a doc twice a year to monitor me and have an actual long term study

Most of the people who abuse AAS abuse other drugs, hell I know one who does coke as a preworkout and when he strokes out it will be all about the AAS.

[slates]

Clomid monotherapy would probably boost you into the 800 ng/dl range. HCG monotherapy would likely produce similar results. You could also add a small dose of Adex to further boost your testosterone . I wouldn't start TRT until you've exhausted these options.

[r_dubb]

So...about the question regarding the gyno sides on this current protocol..?

[Ryanmcd]

So...about the question regarding the gyno sides on this current protocol..?

E2 will help that, also itchy nips is a sign but not always. 20-30 E2 is the sweet spot for most, again most people on TRT don't need a AI and if you are not on any test not sure if just doing a AI is going to help anything because then you have something you have to get dialed in, if your natty and your E2 is off the chart something else is off, or cut some fat that should help E2 as well.

Also why so much HCG ? I do 100 everyday and it works great, HCG will drive your E2 way up, most do it 250x2 times a week, I like daily because it keeps my E2 level and acne down.