Should I be on TRT?

[istrtforme]

Hi Everyone,

I could really use some advice here.

My current stats are: 34 5ft6 200lbs. probably close to 30% body fat.

Background:

2011 relationship ended and started working out pretty seriously. Read up about a company all the Hollywood actors were using to legally get prescribed HGH, Testosterone , etc. Called the company and saw a doctor. My original bloodwork was as follows:

T3, FREE 3.5
T4, TOTAL 6.6
TSH 1.16
FSH 2.5
LH 4.1
ESTRADIOL 34.9
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 472
SHBG 25
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 13.22
IGF-1 194
CORTISOL 11.1
VITAMIN D 40

The cycle I got put on was for 14 weeks:

Inject 1ml of Testosterone Cypionate 210/ml 10ml vial 2x a week
1 Anastrozole 1.2mg tab 3x a week
1 Tamoxifen 11mg tab 3x a week
Inject 1ml L-Carnitine 250mg daily
Orally take 4mg tab Albuterol 2x a day
Orally take 27.5mcg Liothyonine-Sodium 2x a day
Inject 2iu Omnitrope 5.8mg morning and night 5x per week

I don't have the exact PCT details as I didn't keep them but it was HCG followed by Tamoxifen for about 4 weeks.

After doing about 3 cycles, eating a clean diet, not drinking alcohol at all, and working out hard I was doing great I went from 182 lbs. to 157 lbs. and from 25% body fat to 8% body fat. I got tested in a dunk tank every month.

2012: I got into a relationship so a lot of my life changed. I stopped cycling around June. I started drinking alcohol again, eating out, not working out as much. I gained went up to about 170 lbs. but thought I was still in decent shape.

2013: I spent 6 months on Accutane to clear up some chronic acne on my back I had ever since puberty. I thought it was the Accutane that made me real lethargic, killed my sex drive, and caused me to continue to gain weight. After being off the Accutane for a month I realized my lethargy/sex drive issues weren't going away so I went to an endocrinologist being forthright and explaining all of my history. He ran some blood work and it was:

10/15/13 LH 0.4
10/15/13 Prolactin 6
10/15/13 Total Testosterone - Male 66.3 ng/dl

He said my low levels were due to my previous testosterone use and that it takes years for the body to recover. I asked him to run a PCT to try to kickstart my LH but he said he wouldn't prescribe any off label use of medicines like GnRH, clomiphene, etc. His schedule was busy so I couldn't get another appointment with him until January, but got put on a standby list for a cancellation. In the meantime I decided to do my own PCT to kickstart my LH:

Week 1 PCT 12.5mg Aromasin EOD/One Shot of GnRH 100mcg
Week 2 PCT 12.5mg Aromason EOD/Nolvadex 20mg Daily/Clomid 50mg Daily
Week 3 PCT 12.5mg Aromason EOD/Nolvadex 20mg Daily/Clomid 50mg Daily
Week 4 PCT 6.25mg Aromason EOD/Nolvadex 10mg Daily/Clomid 25mg Daily
Week 5 PCT 6.25mg Aromason EOD/Nolvadex 10mg Daily/Clomid 25mg Daily

My next results showed my LH up and testosterone up:

11/08/13 LH 2.4
11/08/13 Total Testosterone - Male 212.4 ng/dl

Follow up a month later (I think taking HCGenerate actually lowered my testosterone levels ):

12/11/13 LH 2.8
12/11/13 PSA Diagnostic 1.0 0.0-4.0
12/11/13 Total Testosterone - Male 174.3 ng/dl
12/11/13 Hgb 14.0 g/dl 13.8-17.5
12/11/13 Hct 42.4 %

At this point in time the endocrinologist decided to prescribe me 50mg every other week of testosterone cypionate . I told him I read any exogenous testosterone will shut you down. He said no, 50mg should kickstart my body producing more and not listen to what people are writing on the internet. I got my blood work done 4 weeks later and it came out to:

01/03/14 Hgb 15.8 g/dl 13.8-17.5
01/03/14 Hct 45.9 % 37.0-52.0
01/03/14 LH 0.3
01/03/14 PSA Diagnostic 0.9 0.0-4.0
01/03/14 Total Testosterone - Male 359.2 ng/dl

So yeah my testosterone went up, but my LH was lower than ever before. I called him this week saying he shut my LH down again and he said to keep dosing the testosterone at 50mg a week and that we will retest blood work before I see him at the end of February.

This doctor sounds like a quack as yeah I have a little bit more testosterone but I'm not where I was back in 2011. My larger concern is did I screw up my leydig cells while cycling by not using HCG on cycle? Should I stop the 50mg testosterone and try to do an even more hardcore PCT? Should I just go on TRT (real TRT through a HRT doctor and not 50mg a week, maybe call that company up again)? I have to admit TRT sounds appealing at this point as I would love to get to an optimal level testosterone so I could feel better and get back in shape.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[bass]

Unbelievable what have done to you. you need immediate help, find a doc that can help you. to be honest I think you are shutdown and it will be difficult to get you back to where you were. the 50 megs eow and the doc saying it will kick star you is a foolish thing to say.

[bass]

BTW, your PCT was all wrong. standard pact is,

Clomid, 75/50/50/50
Nova, 40/20/20/20

Nothing else.

[dhickey]

That SERM protocol should have provided better results. You could try HCG . That should tell you if your nuts are capable of producing in a couple weeks. If not, you probably need to on T for the long haul.

[kelkel]

Your endo is clueless. Stop your cypionate , wait 18 days and run another pct as listed above by Bass. Then wait 6-8 weeks for blood work. Do not take hcgenerate. If you want to step it up a notch research the Scally Power PCT Protocol.

You actually used Triptorelin?

[istrtforme]

Your endo is clueless. Stop your cypionate , wait 18 days and run another pct as listed above by Bass. Then wait 6-8 weeks for blood work. Do not take hcgenerate. If you want to step it up a notch research the Scally Power PCT Protocol.

You actually used Triptorelin?

Yes I read that a single dose of Triptorelin at 100mcg was able to restart bodybuilders who used large quantities for steroids for over 13 years. I also read that at doses as high as 4mg it's a form of chemical castration.

I really like the advice of stopping the Cypionate, waiting 18 days, and running the Scally Power PCT Protocol. Does this sound about right?

Stop Cypionate, wait 18 days for Cypionate to clear system

Scally Power PCT as follows:

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

8 weeks later, check blood work

If testosterone is still below 400, find a TRT doctor.

[kelkel]

I asked about triptorelin as not many use it and it would have been nice to see a more positive result.

That's the protocol. Good luck and post up here letting us know your results please. This thread.

[istrtforme]

Will do. Thanks for all your help guys!

[FRDave]

That is a crazy high dose of HCG on Scally's protocol. I personally would skip the HCG and do like suggested by Bass.

Here is some good info on HCG by Austinite and why to use during cycle but not PCT: HCG: Why you should use it on-cycle only & how to prepare your hCG for injections

[istrtforme]

That is a crazy high dose of HCG on Scally's protocol. I personally would skip the HCG and do like suggested by Bass.

Here is some good info on HCG by Austinite and why to use during cycle but not PCT:

Good read. Thanks!

I think I'll leave HCG out as I don't need anything else suppressing my LH.

So I'll do:

Stop Cypionate , wait 18 days for Cypionate to clear system

PCT reboot as follows:

Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

8 weeks later, check blood work

If testosterone is still below 400, find a TRT doctor.

[dhickey]

Why wait for Cyp to clear. Why not use the HCG for those 18 days to keep your nuts full and ready for a restart. I'd run HCG up to when you start the SERM.

[kelkel]

That is a crazy high dose of HCG on Scally's protocol. I personally would skip the HCG and do like suggested by Bass.

It surely is a high dose and why it's short term. Keep in mind that Scally is one of the worlds foremost authorities on PCT, has studied it longer than many here have been alive, writes books on it and operates a forum dedicated to it. So.....

Why wait for Cyp to clear. Why not use the HCG for those 18 days to keep your nuts full and ready for a restart. I'd run HCG up to when you start the SERM.

That's a consideration but I really don't think low dose hcg in that short period would do the trick in this circumstance. IMHO.



A great doc is always the best choice!

[FRDave]

It surely is a high dose and why it's short term. Keep in mind that Scally is one of the worlds foremost authorities on PCT, has studied it longer than many here have been alive, writes books on it and operates a forum dedicated to it. So..... That's a consideration but I really don't think low dose hcg in that short period would do the trick in this circumstance. IMHO. A great doc is always the best choice!

Scally is also one of the most controversial lol.

Either way, I do agree OP should stop TRT and do a PCT of sorts...

[kelkel]

Scally is also one of the most controversial lol.

Either way, I do agree OP should stop TRT and do a PCT of sorts...

Scally definitely is! But that is usually where breakthroughs in science comes from. Those on the cutting edge, willing to take a risk.