Latest numbers are in

[roxer]

First I want to say thanks to the contributors of the board that turned me on to SQ. One of the best decisions I have ever made. Not only are my tests now consistent, the necessary numbers are well within excellent ranges and stay there.

50yr old male on TRT since age 45. Current protocol is .3ml twice weekly Test E (200mg/1ml) and 300IU of Hcg three times weekly. My current numbers are:

Total T: 1002.36 ng/dl (300-1000)
Free T: 143.4% (25-110)
SHBG: 24.30 nmol/L (13.30-89.50)
E2: 25 pg/ml (3-70)
IGF-1: 299 ng/ml (67-205)
Hematocrit: 49.3% (37.5-51)
Hemoglobin: 17 (17.7)

Not sure why my IGF-1 is high as I don't take anything other than weight lift and a high protein diet. I'm guessing it is not a bad thing. My insurance co just cut my HCG supply - thanks Ocare, so it looks like Corion is back in the picture.

Anthing additional I should get tested in the future? I will be dropping my dose to .25ml for future injections.

[bartman314]

when did you take bw relative to your last test/hcg injection?

hematocrit is getting close to high - you may want to give some blood.

what's sq?

[Joeshmo]

Wow !!! Did you take that test on the same day as the shot?
.3 ml shot should equal 60 mg of test 2 x a week means 120.
I was under the Impression that nothing under 200 mg a week would put you at or around your baseline. What was your baseline? Have you surpassed it with just 120 mg a week? With Pfizer test Cyp I need eat least a 1ml a week

[64509chvl]

Wow !!! Did you take that test on the same day as the shot?
.3 ml shot should equal 60 mg of test 2 x a week means 120.
I was under the Impression that nothing under 200 mg a week would put you at or around your baseline. What was your baseline? Have you surpassed it with just 120 mg a week? With Pfizer test Cyp I need eat least a 1ml a week

Everyone is diferent...50mg's twice a week could put some guys at the top. While putting others in the 600's.

[Beethoven]

when did you take bw relative to your last test/hcg injection?

hematocrit is getting close to high - you may want to give some blood.

what's sq?

Subcutaneous injections. I agree your hematocrit is getting high, you should donate soon.

[roxer]

when did you take bw relative to your last test/hcg injection?

hematocrit is getting close to high - you may want to give some blood.

what's sq?

Test was taken on a Thursday before my evening SubQ injection. So my T numbers may actually be slightly higher. My last test was taken on a Wednesday 5 months ago and came in at 1025 ng/dl total test with 147% free. So I dropped from .35ml to .3ml after discussions with my doc. Dropping to .25ml tonight after this test and test again in 2/3 months.

My hematocrit is actually coming down because of subQ. Was 47 last test but was ~54 under IM. I do give blood every 6 months and take an aspirin daily.

[roxer]

Wow !!! Did you take that test on the same day as the shot?
.3 ml shot should equal 60 mg of test 2 x a week means 120.
I was under the Impression that nothing under 200 mg a week would put you at or around your baseline. What was your baseline? Have you surpassed it with just 120 mg a week? With Pfizer test Cyp I need eat least a 1ml a week

My original tests (back in the day there were three to get my base) ran around 200 +/- 50 lower to 100 higher. Using Testim, the best I ever got was around 700 and then it dropped to 480 worst. Under Axiron, I actually got to 750, but that was with 4 applications in the morning. IM Test E never got me over 550 with 140mg week. As 64509chvl stated, everyone is different, so YMMV.

[Joeshmo]

Thanks!

[bluskiblacdeth]

What pin size do you use for SQ? I've done it once with a 30g 1/2" and it was a slowwwww process.

[roxer]

What pin size do you use for SQ? I've done it once with a 30g 1/2" and it was a slowwwww process.

Slowness is not necessarily going away with subQ - this is a thick oil based drug with either E or C. Using Empower's formula may work as I think(?) they mix it to work with subQ, but you will have to ask. I use a 29g 1/2 .5 slin pin. It takes me about 2-3 minutes to fill. Some steps to help mitigate are:

1. Vent the vial (use a 21g 1" needle with no syringe attached) to remove the negative pressure before first draw.
2. Inject the maximum amount of air into the vial with the slin pin before every draw.
3. Warm the vial before your draw.
4. Draw your dosage the night before you need to take it when you have the time.

Hope this helps. Everything has pluses and minuses. You will have to decide if the reward is worth the effort. I think its a no brainer - IF IT WORKS FOR YOU, but YMMV.

[booku]

What's your injection rotation look like on SQ? # of sites and injection technique etc

[roxer]

What's your injection rotation look like on SQ? # of sites and injection technique etc

Rotation runs (thanks to FRDave for the injection spots):

Sunday morning 300iu HCG left or right love handle fat
Monday morning .3ml T right cheek glute fat
Wednesday night 300iu HCG opposite love handle fat
Thursday night .3ml T left cheek glute fat
Friday morning 300iu HCG opposite love handle fat

Nothing fancy, but this works perfect for me. I have used belly fat, but not a great effect with T. HCG does ok though.

[booku]

Rotation runs (thanks to FRDave for the injection spots):

Sunday morning 300iu HCG left or right love handle fat
Monday morning .3ml T right cheek glute fat
Wednesday night 300iu HCG opposite love handle fat
Thursday night .3ml T left cheek glute fat
Friday morning 300iu HCG opposite love handle fat

Nothing fancy, but this works perfect for me. I have used belly fat, but not a great effect with T. HCG does ok though.

Have you ever run IM?

I am mildly concerned about your testosterone level of only 1000 considering the fact that you are using 120 mg of test and 900 IU of hcg a week. The hcg could be masking the problem here where the hcg is actually causing the vast majority of your test level. I am running 100 mg of test only IM and achieving a level of 880-1259. Just a thought, people do respond differently I just think its interesting to compare responses.

[physicslifter]

Slowness is not necessarily going away with subQ - this is a thick oil based drug with either E or C.

Guys, why over complicate this with using a dedicated slin pin? Buy a box of 25iu syringes, 30 Ga needles, and 16 Ga needles. Draw with the 16 gauge, and inject subq with the 30 gauge. Takes very little time, and you always inject with a sharp pin.

[booku]

Guys, why over complicate this with using a dedicated slin pin? Buy a box of 25iu syringes, 30 Ga needles, and 16 Ga needles. Draw with the 16 gauge, and inject subq with the 30 gauge. Takes very little time, and you always inject with a sharp pin.

Once again I cannot emphasize enough that you should NEVER be using a 16 or 18 gauge needle to draw with. TRT deals with very small volumes of oil, we are talking around 0.25 ml each injection. 22 or 23 gauge to draw with if you are injecting twice weekly

[FRDave]

Guys, why over complicate this with using a dedicated slin pin? Buy a box of 25iu syringes, 30 Ga needles, and 16 Ga needles. Draw with the 16 gauge, and inject subq with the 30 gauge. Takes very little time, and you always inject with a sharp pin.

Injecting twice per week your stopper is going to be trashed before coming close to finishing a vial of test.

I draw and inject with a 26g syringe and it works flawlessly and only takes 30 sec. to draw.

[ppwc1985]

Injecting twice per week your stopper is going to be trashed before coming close to finishing a vial of test. I draw and inject with a 26g syringe and it works flawlessly and only takes 30 sec. to draw.

^^^^ what Dave said. I use the exact same syringes he uses, draw and inject with same one and have had no problems.

[roxer]

Have you ever run IM?

I am mildly concerned about your testosterone level of only 1000 conHsidering the fact that you are using 120 mg of test and 900 IU of hcg a week. The hcg could be masking the problem here where the hcg is actually causing the vast majority of your test level. I am running 100 mg of test only IM and achieving a level of 880-1259. Just a thought, people do respond differently I just think its interesting to compare responses.

I started injections last year on IM. Best I could achieve with 140mg week was 550. Not sure why, but just couldn't get higher. Was on HCG too at the time. I switched to subQ last year around August. Tested November and came out with 1025. Tested two weeks ago and that's my latest numbers (1002). I'm not sure any of this is a problem, but I am going to get my numbers lower. Not sure everyone reacts the same to Test.

[booku]

I started injections last year on IM. Best I could achieve with 140mg week was 550. Not sure why, but just couldn't get higher. Was on HCG too at the time. I switched to subQ last year around August. Tested November and came out with 1025. Tested two weeks ago and that's my latest numbers (1002). I'm not sure any of this is a problem, but I am going to get my numbers lower. Not sure everyone reacts the same to Test.

Okay I see, I am glad you have found what works. What level are you targeting? 700?

[roxer]

Okay I see, I am glad you have found what works. What level are you targeting? 700?

I think somewhere between 700 and 800. I'll know when I get there. It's where I feel the best. To be honest, running this high makes me feel kind of tired. Hopefully a lower number will alleviate that. Funny thing is I feel a little more laid back and mellow here.