Aversion to pinning as time progresses

**frawnz** · 03-03-2014, 05:20 PM

Just curious, for those of you who have been on TRT for a long time. I'm about 4 years along now, and I'm really getting tired of pinning myself. You'd think over time that it would become easier, but it seems the opposite. I've even considered the pellets just so I don't have to jab my leg once or twice a week. I think part of it is that I inject IM, which is significantly more uncomfortable/painful than subQ. It may be that I'm just building up too much scar tissue, but how do I avoid that knowing that I'll be pinning the rest of my life? I've tried subQ, but my brand name Test C is just too thick for insulin syringes.

Any advice from long time pinners?

**ppwc1985** · 03-03-2014, 06:13 PM

I switched to sub q, but not with an insulin syringe. I forget the exact size I'm not home but it takes a few minutes to load but you can't beat it. So much easier, and I was really worried of long term im injections and scar tissue to. I pin wherever I can grab some fat and my levels stay in high 700's.

**2Sox** · 03-03-2014, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by frawnz

Just curious, for those of you who have been on TRT for a long time. I'm about 4 years along now, and I'm really getting tired of pinning myself. You'd think over time that it would become easier, but it seems the opposite. I've even considered the pellets just so I don't have to jab my leg once or twice a week. I think part of it is that I inject IM, which is significantly more uncomfortable/painful than subQ. It may be that I'm just building up too much scar tissue, but how do I avoid that knowing that I'll be pinning the rest of my life? I've tried subQ, but my brand name Test C is just too thick for insulin syringes.

Any advice from long time pinners?

Is your Test Cyp Watson? If it is, it will load just fine into a 29g a insulin syringe. Just takes a few minutes to push out the air a few times, but it works.

**Ryanmcd** · 03-03-2014, 07:24 PM

I am with ya on this chit, HCG daily, allergy shots 2x a week and 2 times sub Q injections lol.

What I did was order some 30g 1/2 inch BD needles, I load up with a 23g and then switch to the 30g, @ .4 CC it takes about 2 min to inject but I like it better then the 25g IM in the quad. if your doing IM try Sub Q, for me with the 30g 1/2 inch I just stab it in inject and don't even need a band aid in the quad, I did it on a conference call today at my house, it's that easy.

**frawnz** · 03-03-2014, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

Is your Test Cyp Watson? If it is, it will load just fine into a 29g a insulin syringe. Just takes a few minutes to push out the air a few times, but it works.

Mine is Paddock Labs. I tried using an insulin needle to draw it once and it basically just foamed and would have taken forever, and I was afraid my shot would be too aerated and would have taken half a day to inject.

**FRDave** · 03-03-2014, 08:47 PM

30 sec tops to load a 26-27ga syringe and another 30 sec to inject sub-Q.

**LFH40** · 03-03-2014, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by FRDave

30 sec tops to load a 26-27ga syringe and another 30 sec to inject sub-Q.

FRDave, this is exactly what I do (with a 27g x 1/2" pin). Is this considered sub q if you're injecting into quad? Quad has been the least sensitive site with regards to skin irritation. No problem there whatsoever. With low body fat and pushing the pin in all the way, would this be IM or only sub q? Whatever method this actually is, it works for me

**ppwc1985** · 03-03-2014, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by LFH40

FRDave, this is exactly what I do (with a 27g x 1/2" pin). Is this considered sub q if you're injecting into quad? Quad has been the least sensitive site with regards to skin irritation. No problem there whatsoever. With low body fat and pushing the pin in all the way, would this be IM or only sub q? Whatever method this actually is, it works for me

if your going into the muscle no, I do my quads most of the time but I pinch, stick and inject. If your no for sure just make sure your pulling plunger back to check for blood.

**FRDave** · 03-04-2014, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by LFH40

FRDave, this is exactly what I do (with a 27g x 1/2" pin). Is this considered sub q if you're injecting into quad? Quad has been the least sensitive site with regards to skin irritation. No problem there whatsoever. With low body fat and pushing the pin in all the way, would this be IM or only sub q? Whatever method this actually is, it works for me

Really depends on the location of the quad and how lean you are. For the majority, I would think 1/2" is quite capable of going IM, but hard to say.

Like mentioned, if you pinch skin and stick, possibly even going in at an angle, then sub-Q is possible.

**frawnz** · 03-04-2014, 06:09 AM

I can feel when the needle goes into muscle, so assuming I'm normal (HUGE assumption, so bear with me), there should be no doubt as to whether you're achieving IM or not.

I'm going to try and order some smaller gauge needles and start going subQ. I hear the LowT.com test C is very thin because of the oil they use during compounding, so I'm hopeful that this won't continue to be such a literal pain in my butt/leg.

**ppwc1985** · 03-04-2014, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by frawnz

I can feel when the needle goes into muscle, so assuming I'm normal (HUGE assumption, so bear with me), there should be no doubt as to whether you're achieving IM or not. I'm going to try and order some smaller gauge needles and start going subQ. I hear the LowT.com test C is very thin because of the oil they use during compounding, so I'm hopeful that this won't continue to be such a literal pain in my butt/leg.

I'm with lowt, just tell your dr you want to go subq and they will send you some subq needles.

**sirupate** · 03-04-2014, 10:31 AM

Not a long time pinner. I injected for about 9 months. I never learned to like it the same way that some do around here. I am on gel now, and did the pellets for about a year. Pellets were easy and worked fine, but I metabolized them more quickly than my doctor liked. Gel works well for me, but isn't favored around here much.

I did sub-q some as an experiment. It takes a while to load a slin pin, but you can do it. Injecting sub-q I wasn't hitting nerve bunches like I did in my quads and wasn't getting bleeds from nicking blood vessels either. I just never felt as good as I thought I should injecting. My "then" doctor didn't want to tailor my protocol either.

**LFH40** · 03-04-2014, 10:51 AM

Guys, it's a dumb question and I don't mean it hijack this thread, but while we are on the topic, pinning in the quad with a 1/2" needle, whether sub q or IM, I'm still going to get the same benefit and results, correct?

**2Sox** · 03-04-2014, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by LFH40

Guys, it's a dumb question and I don't mean it hijack this thread, but while we are on the topic, pinning in the quad with a 1/2" needle, whether sub q or IM, I'm still going to get the same benefit and results, correct?

All things being equal, yes.

**frawnz** · 03-04-2014, 11:49 AM

I can't speak to subQ vs. IM, as it's still a debated topic (no medical consensus). From what I've read on my own, however, subQ seems to be the current tend, combined with more frequent injections (which should help the theoretical issues of rapid uptake). If I slowly slide the needle in, I can definitely feel resistance when I go into muscle vs. the fatty layer between. I'm not confident that I could hit muscle effectively with a 1/2 inch needle, but I'm also around 20% bf right now.

**Beethoven** · 03-04-2014, 11:55 AM

I just started doing subq about three weeks ago. 27 gauge 1/2" needle using a 1 cc syringe. Very easy to do. Want to check labs first, then I'm going to pin 3X per week. Thanks 2Sox.