Any downside of maintainingntestosterone levels above the reference range?

[Jake14]

I was taking test at a 100mg a week. I started going to a new doctor and he prescribed 200 mg a week. At that level, my test was > 1500 ( not sure of exact amount because result max is >1500) with reference range 348 - 1197 ng/dL and free test was 46 with a reference range of 7.2 -24 pg/mL. I also had elevated hemoatocrit and back acne. I dropped my test to 160mg a week. Test level is still > 1500 and free test is slightly above top of the range at 26.5 pgmL. All other blood test results look good and back acne has decreased. Is there downside of maintaining test levels above the referene range if the rest of your blood work looks good?

Thanks.

[17chester6]

That begs the question (or questions): why were you increased to 200 mg a week, why are you not dividing the dose to at least twice weekly, are you seeking a physiological response to the T or trying for supraphysiological levels to get jacked, what is your E level not to mention the other blood work results?


As mentioned elsewhere on the forum, less is often more. Higher levels of T may cause more unwanted side effects such as the acne, prostate issues, high E levels and so on.

[sfgiantsfan55]

I was taking test at a 100mg a week. I started going to a new doctor and he prescribed 200 mg a week. At that level, my test was > 1500 ( not sure of exact amount because result max is >1500) with reference range 348 - 1197 ng/dL and free test was 46 with a reference range of 7.2 -24 pg/mL. I also had elevated hemoatocrit and back acne. I dropped my test to 160mg a week. Test level is still > 1500 and free test is slightly above top of the range at 26.5 pgmL. All other blood test results look good and back acne has decreased. Is there downside of maintaining test levels above the referene range if the rest of your blood work looks good?

Thanks.

id guess one downside is that, if your t levels are significantly over the "WNL" range 9as they appear to be), why should the DR be prescribing you test for low t in the first place? id guess this could get his butt in a sling. Suprises me greatly your MD didnt say "hmm.. you are getting too much, lets lower that"........ other than that, watch your e2 , psa , hematocrit

[roxer]

I asked myself that same question as I came in at 1000+ total with 142% free with my last blood test. Even with these high numbers, all of my other numbers were well within good ranges - E2 and SHBG in the middle 20s, PSA very low at 0.42 and hematocrit under 50. But I have other issues because of the high T - mainly I was feeling tired, lazy and couldn't think clearly (kind of like most teenagers - hahaha). I tried to reason it off as feeling more mello, but T that high wasn't helping me.

So I have cut my doses of T and HCG back some as of last week and am already starting to feel better. Being more alert with added energy is definitely there. Everyone is different, but we all have that magic line to feel good with hormones at the right levels.

[Metalject]

The value of testosterone reference ranges hold the same value as a 4 day old pile of shit left in your yard by a stray dog. They mean absolutely nothing.

All that matters is:
1. Make sure blood's not getting thick...if so, give blood.
2. Keep E2 under control
3. Keep cardiovascular health under control
4. Keep prostate under control

Do 1-4 and test levels higher than a reference range mean nothing.

[Ryanmcd]

The value of testosterone reference ranges hold the same value as a 4 day old pile of shit left in your yard by a stray dog. They mean absolutely nothing.

All that matters is:
1. Make sure blood's not getting thick...if so, give blood.
2. Keep E2 under control
3. Keep cardiovascular health under control
4. Keep prostate under control

Do 1-4 and test levels higher than a reference range mean nothing.

Good post, I know people who run 3-500 a week when they are not running a cycle and have for over 10 years, just keep a eye on the above and it's about how you feel, also I would make sure you don't have any risk for cancer as well if your going to run very high levels just in case.

I wonder if anyone else has input on this? I know a lot of people say don't run high levels but the above 4 seem to cover it, I know when I am over 1500 I don't feel as good as say 8-900 so no reason but if you feel great @ 1500 why not?

[2Sox]

The value of testosterone reference ranges hold the same value as a 4 day old pile of shit left in your yard by a stray dog. They mean absolutely nothing.

All that matters is:
1. Make sure blood's not getting thick...if so, give blood.
2. Keep E2 under control
3. Keep cardiovascular health under control
4. Keep prostate under control

Do 1-4 and test levels higher than a reference range mean nothing.

This is a great post and says it straight. It affirms what most of us have felt. Whatever the case, always good to start conservatively and when the sweet spot is arrived at, be content and stay with it.

[kelkel]

The value of testosterone reference ranges hold the same value as a 4 day old pile of shit left in your yard by a stray dog. They mean absolutely nothing.

All that matters is:
1. Make sure blood's not getting thick...if so, give blood.
2. Keep E2 under control
3. Keep cardiovascular health under control
4. Keep prostate under control

Do 1-4 and test levels higher than a reference range mean nothing.

Well said. A while back in a similar thread LowT (resident Doc) basically said the same thing as metal just said. Great minds....
And guys metalject doesn't appear much in the HRT Forum but trust me, he knows what he's doing.

[jomamma007]

I just feel that going above the ranges causes problems for most, estrogen and Hemo/Hema. This alone tells us that we probably shouldn't even be having these type of levels in the first place.
Not only that but our bodies aren't meant to have 2000 test levels year round.
The older you are the more concerned I'd be as well. 60+ year olds with year round 1500+ test levels?

Better off with a 900 Total T then 1500 IMO, unless you're a pro bodybuilder or trying to add muscle.
I mean two people already in this thread seem to feel better with a number in range, and I'll be the third.

Sure everybody's different, but if you can't get it done(erections, quality of sleep, mood, mental clarity etc) with a 900 test level you're doing it wrong.
If you're doing it just to feel better something's up, I mean if you need 3-5 X (the average is ~600 for a man in his 20's)the normal testosterone levels for someone your age to feel good, I don't know just makes me feel like your bandaging some mental issues.

Again it's all about the reason behind wanting elevated long term testosterone levels.

Just my 2cents

So if I keep #1-4 in check i can run around with a 3000 test level year round for the next 30 years without running into health issues? I don't buy it...

[kelkel]

Jo he's just saying it can be done for extended periods if monitored properly. It's definitely not for everyone nor should it be.

[Jake14]

I apprecaite everyone's responses. They are very helpful. A lot of good views. I am try to put on muslce mass and that is why I am keeping my test at a level let's say greater than 900. (It is working as I have workout on a consistent basis and have a good diet). However, I asked the question because I wanted to make sure there was not a significant downside of keeping test at an elevated level. I was not aware of any.

If I was not trying to put on mass, I would probably keep my test level at 900. Whether my test is at 900, 1500 or greater, I do not feel any different. The only difference I see is I get some back acne as test level raises but it is never that significant. I do split my test dose and take it twice a week. My E2 is in the low 20's. At 160mg of test a week my hemoacrit is 49 - at 200mg 52. PSA is 1.2 at either level of test.

I believe my doctor is Ok with the higher levels for now as long as the rest of my blood work looks good.

[kelkel]

If I was not trying to put on mass

Jake that is really all nutrition related, not AAS. If it simply were AAS we'd all be pro BB-ers.

[Ryanmcd]

Jake that is really all nutrition related, not AAS. If it simply were AAS we'd all be pro BB-ers.

Perfect point, look at a lot of the pro's around that are natty, not that many but a few lol I think most people after 10 years of GOOD training and diet can get strong as hell. I would say unless you are over 400 bench 5-600 on squats and deads TRT can get you to this lvl, hell natty can get you to this level with a good diet. I was strong as hell with a test level of 200 but I did train hard and had a good diet and sleep. I think test is about 20-30% of it and diet / training = the rest.

I know a lot of people who are over a gram a week and I am bigger and stronger then them @ 800 lvl but I work my ass off and I have a plan and a goal, it all comes back to to having a case of fukarounditis.

[Jake14]

Jake that is really all nutrition related, not AAS. If it simply were AAS we'd all be pro BB-ers.

If you are saying, if your diet is good you will put on mass at about the same pace whether your test is 900 or 1500, with a corresponding rise in free test, I wondered about that. To get a real signifcant mass increase from test, you need to run a cycle, understanding yo may not keep all of those gains,

[dreadnok89]

Perfect point, look at a lot of the pro's around that are natty, not that many but a few lol I think most people after 10 years of GOOD training and diet can get strong as hell. I would say unless you are over 400 bench 5-600 on squats and deads TRT can get you to this lvl, hell natty can get you to this level with a good diet. I was strong as hell with a test level of 200 but I did train hard and had a good diet and sleep. I think test is about 20-30% of it and diet / training = the rest.

I know a lot of people who are over a gram a week and I am bigger and stronger then them @ 800 lvl but I work my ass off and I have a plan and a goal, it all comes back to to having a case of fukarounditis.

I think str is either you have it or you don't. I see a lot of big dudes who aren't really strong

[roxer]

There are a lot of guys who are more into body sculpting than strength. I know of two guys that work out expressly to do shows but are not any stronger than I am - they are big and ripped, but not stronger. So your lifting program and diet has a lot to do with the results to are trying to achieve.

[kelkel]

If you are saying, if your diet is good you will put on mass at about the same pace whether your test is 900 or 1500, with a corresponding rise in free test, I wondered about that. To get a real signifcant mass increase from test, you need to run a cycle, understanding yo may not keep all of those gains,

Basically yes. 900-1500 is really not that big of a difference. Now if you cycle and get to a 3-4K NG/DL level it's a different thing. But nutrition is still paramount. Like Ryan touched on, I know guys running grams a week but their diet is crap and they wonder why I look better even if only running TRT levels. It's really a lifestyle thing.

Keeping gains is the hard part for most guys. You're going to lose some but you do not have to lose all. Problem is too many guys lose motivation to train hard and eat right when off cycle. This quickly leads to a loss of LBM. Any new muscle you gain on a cycle has to be maintained with sufficient calories, otherwise it's just gone. It all comes back to nutrition.

[frawnz]

My feelings are a little different. Since starting TRT, my body has maintained significantly more muscle bulk than years prior, even when compared to times when I used to work my ass off (pre-TRT). Now, this is comparing 150 T to 800 T, and I'm not saying that the same applies to 800 T vs. 1500 T. I just know that on TRT, regardless of diet or exercise, I am definitely able to hang onto more muscle mass in general. Also, I am on 300mg/week, which is higher than most do for TRT, but that's just what it takes for my body to hit that 700-800 window. My bloodwork otherwise has never had issues, aside from high E2 because my endo won't test E2 or write out a script for anti-E. It will be interesting to see what happens to my levels once I'm regularly on an AI.

[kelkel]

I experienced the same thing Frawnz. I was at a 59 level and dropping (tumor related) before initiating TRT. World of difference with a healthy level.
300mg per week! Damn. You must be some type of hyper-metabolizer. Don't see many of them.
Are you in an area where you can pull blood for E2 via private testing?

[frawnz]

I experienced the same thing Frawnz. I was at a 59 level and dropping (tumor related) before initiating TRT. World of difference with a healthy level.
300mg per week! Damn. You must be some type of hyper-metabolizer. Don't see many of them.
Are you in an area where you can pull blood for E2 via private testing?

My endo started me on 100mg/EOW and my T levels actually went DOWN until we hit the 200/mg week levels (got me to around 350-400, but still feel pretty ho-hum at these levels). 300/mg week keeps me in the 700-800 range, but I definitely notice what I believe to be signs of high E2 (puffy/sensitive nips, tendency to hold fat around mid-section, drop in libido, etc.). It took a looong time to get him up to 300/week, but numbers don't lie. I just moved so I can't use him anymore and am going though the process of joining lowt.com, so we should see what my E2 levels are next week. I've tested it on my own in the past and was petty high and had to use AR-R to self-med and get it under control, but I haven't done that in a while.

My body is definitely either resistant to certain drugs/chems or like you said, "hyper-metabolizes" them. Things like novacaine, sleeping pills, and general anesthesia don't work very well on me for some reason (waking up in the middle of an operation sucks, btw), so I assume the same thing is happening with the way my body handles T injections. Although, if take a couple Benadryl, I'm out like a baby so it seems dependent on the type of chemical and not just across the board application.

[kelkel]

My endo started me on 100mg/EOW and my T levels actually went DOWN until we hit the 200/mg week levels (got me to around 350-400, but still feel pretty ho-hum at these levels). 300/mg week keeps me in the 700-800 range, but I definitely notice what I believe to be signs of high E2 (puffy/sensitive nips, tendency to hold fat around mid-section, drop in libido, etc.). It took a looong time to get him up to 300/week, but numbers don't lie. I just moved so I can't use him anymore and am going though the process of joining lowt.com, so we should see what my E2 levels are next week. I've tested it on my own in the past and was petty high and had to use AR-R to self-med and get it under control, but I haven't done that in a while.

My body is definitely either resistant to certain drugs/chems or like you said, "hyper-metabolizes" them. Things like novacaine, sleeping pills, and general anesthesia don't work very well on me for some reason (waking up in the middle of an operation sucks, btw), so I assume the same thing is happening with the way my body handles T injections. Although, if take a couple Benadryl, I'm out like a baby so it seems dependent on the type of chemical and not just across the board application.

Damn. That would suck.