My Story - Would appreciate input

[Trenchant7]

Phew. Ok going to just put it all out there. So much to say. Hope you'll read fully.

Took Propecia in mid 20's. Went from average testosterone level of 900-1000 naturally, to (what felt like) nothing. Kept taking it anyway. Numerous problems with prostate pain. Debilitating migraines. Testicle ache. And ultimately sky-high estrogen. Ignored it for fear of losing hair. Took it for 3.5 years until I couldn't tolerate it anymore.

Age 25-30 I knew I had knocked myself down a lot. Libido wasn't anything like it used to be. Instead of averaging 900-1000 naturally I was now averaging 600. For me this was a drastic change in quality of life. But I could function fine, so I did nothing. No major health problems related to it. I remember seeing a urologist complaining that my sperm volume was "the size of a dime". I used to be Peter North. He told me I was fine and to go home. I really dislike doctors...

Age 30-35. I'm sure my chemical castration, combined with natural aging had its effect. By 35 my interest in sex was marginal at best. Workouts were fairly fruitless. Tested myself and was averaging about 475. I wanted back to at least 600, but couldn't justify it in my mind. For the most part I wasn't miserable. Just literally spent age 25 to 35 with the libido of a 60 year old.

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Then things got ugly. I had sex with a girl who ended up telling me she had HIV. Thankfully it was within 7 hours of the exposure. Unprotected. Twice. I raced to the hospital and was put on Post Exposure Prophylaxis. Unfortunately my doctor was an idiot and put me on the infamous "AZT". You know ... the drug that killed tens of thousands with HIV in the 80's. Yeah. They still prescribe it. I knew nothing about the stigma of the medication until I began taking it. It damages mitochondrial function in cells throughout the body. It destroys DNA replication. It suppresses bone marrow production, and thereby crashes the immune system for a period, followed by immune inflammatory reactions.

I spent 2 years miserable, with tons of unexplained symptoms including fatigue and much, much more. But now, my system is fried. Debilitated. Crippled in some fashion. Probably mitochondrial damage. Maybe viral reactivations. Maybe immune reconstitution syndrome (IRIS). Nobody knows. But now my testosterone is shot.

My hair started thinning. This is actually what triggered me to test my hormones, because low T can actually *cause* hair thinning. When I got the results back, I found that I was at 230. Not surprised. I felt like an old man.

HIV negative 2.5 years after exposure.

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I remember visiting here when I was in my 400's and wishing I could justify the "leap" to TRT. But now I am at 230 and there is something different at play here. Now I have a damaged system on my hands. My entire system is not functioning up to par like it was before the medications. So I am not surprised my T is also struggling at a much lower level. I could begin TRT, but this would not address my problem. And science hasn't excelled enough to identify my problem anyway.

I am able to manage a higher libido. Sort of. I can eat chocolate, and peanuts, and other foods that do give me a tiny "boost". I found that if I only masturbate once every 3-4 days, I am able to get my hormones up a little bit, naturally. But it only goes so far. Workouts are sh*t. I am fatigued for 2-3-4 days after every workout.

Im single and 39. I know for a fact that 15 years of "blah" libido has played a huge role in not "getting out there" and meeting a girl. I just don't have that "pull" that most guys have. Haven't, for a long time. Then I went and took poisons that did something to my body. Now, taking TRT would probably help. And at 240 its warranted. But I feel like its more a symptom of a crippled endocrine / adrenal / immune system. At best, it would be a band-aid. But I don't know what else to do. I know sudden low T is a biproduct of chronic disease. And there may be something brewing (many who took AZT ended up with lymphoma, cancers, etc).

If I did this, I would just push myself into the 500 range probably. And leave it there.

I don't know. I don't expect you guys to know what to do. I've seen 15 doctors and all my results are normal, aside from low T, low immune markers, high natural killer cells, high CD8, VERY low sed rate (1 and sometimes 0). Reactivated CMV, EBV, etc. Everything else is normal. And I've had at least 70 tests done. Cancers, Autoimmune tests, EMG's MRI's ... all normal.

Wish there was some way I could get myself into the 500's naturally.

blah.

[ppwc1985]

Try lowt.com, they are a sponser here just click on the banner and they will help.

[Trenchant7]

Not interested in being directed to a clinic who wants to sell me a product right now.

More interested in a discussion / exchange of thoughts / ideas.

[theheat]

Can you post your latest BW?

[Trenchant7]

Can you post your latest BW?

Not sure where to start. I don't have the full workup of hormones as they were looking for numerous other things. I just have my test and a couple other relevant ones. I can always get a new full workup and probably will. Here's what I do have:

January 2014
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TSH: 1.61 (0.4 - 4.5)
T4: 7.8 (4.5 - 12)
SED Rate: 1 ( 0 - 15)
FSH: 3.3 (1.6 - 8.0)
LH: 3.9 (1.5 - 9.3)
Testosterone Total: 264

Sorry to ask the most-asked question on this forum, but what tests should I order?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Height and weight?

[Trenchant7]

Normally 5' 11" and 185.

Now, for some reason 195.

[Beethoven]

Not interested in being directed to a clinic who wants to sell me a product right now.

More interested in a discussion / exchange of thoughts / ideas.

OP you have at the very least low t not taking into account any underlying condition that can't be tested in a discussion forum. At this point a Dr with knowledge of hormones is warranted to rule out any tumors or other conditions. Maybe a re start can get your levels up. Either way, your solution lies with a Dr.

[EZ E]

You aren't going to be able to get there naturally but you could try other things before jumping to testosterone injections. Your LH isn't overly low and you would think it could manage highr test level with that amount. It sort of confirms that the whole system isn't really working. You can try clomid and see if that helps. If not then you will probably need to go on trt.

Good luck.

[kelkel]

Sorry for your issues Trenchant. The best advice I could give you would be to see someone like Dr. Crisler or Shippen, both experts in the field. Other than that, there is a list of BW in the Finding A Doc Sticky at the top of this forum which you can reference. I'm sure you've already done all you can naturally to maximize your T levels but the above BW list can help guide you as well. Always good to know your D, Pregnenolone and DHEA levels as if they are low supplementation can help to some extent.

[Trenchant7]

I had to put a "(" between letters because the forum kept rejecting my post for "spam".

Thanks everyone. Im going to order myself a battery of hormone tests. Already had all the cancers checked for.

This is most likely an inflammatory immune condition. Or I have numerous reactivated infections. Both can come from taking AZT. It screws with your bone marrow something fierce. Unfortunately 15 doctors sent me home with a clean bill of health, so seeing a doctor probably won't help.

For the most part I am 100% okay. I just struggle a little, day to day, unless I really take care of myself. Always on the edge of tiredness and a constant lack of vitality. Run myself down at all (by working out) and I can feel flu-ish for a handful of days. I don't want to just pump in a bunch of Testosterone if something is suppressing my natural production. But then again, Propecia already knocked me down a ton in the first place (from 800-900's to 400's).

I should point something interesting out. I took An(avar for about 6 weeks in the middle of all this and *every* symptom disappeared in the blink of an eye. I never felt better. It was like a new lease on life. I went from walking 5 minutes on the treadmill every 3 days, to running almost a half hour. It was that drastic.

And it wasn't temporary. Like An(avar, it lasted a few months even after finishing. But then it all slowly crept back. Despite closing out the experiment with some Clomid to get me naturally up to a certain level. And I was doing a womans dose of the An(avar. I think 5-10mg and only on workout days for 6 weeks. Crazy.

Fun anecdote: They give people on HIV me(ds (like AZT) Ox(androlone as a treatment for the side effects. Go figure.

Will post my updated labs soon.

T

[lovbyts]

Wow, sounds like you have been through the ringer. Sorry docs arent helping you so far but I think the advice given above is solid, either go to lowT, Crisler or Shippen.

It really sounds like your test levels have been compromised due to multiple reasons. I had some similar issues (not the HIV) with medications, injuries and such that screwed me up and although my libido was OK my test levels and more my energy was not.

It was like night and day once I got on TRT. That's interesting about the var and maybe being at such a low dose somehow stimulated your natural test or something else? It could be a combination of test and E2 or many other things.

[Trenchant7]

Thankfully I continue to test negative for HIV, but yes, the medications are known for being killers. The Matthew McConnaheugheughy (i dont even bother trying to spell his name right) movie "Dallas Buyers Club" is all about AZT. The drug I took.

Unfortunately I now have a kidney infection, so I have put off testing hormones until I finish this wonderful dose of toxic medication (Cipro) which will no doubt add to my long term problems. I'm being psycho about the probiotics this time though. And controlling C. Difficile. Hopefully Ill come through this without issues.

The kidney problems lead me to google. 75% of men with end stage kidney disease have low, or drastically low Testosterone levels and diagnosed Hypogonadism. Found that to be really interesting. They consider the long term development of kidney disease to be heavily associated with low T levels.

I am in the process of finding a cryo bank to store my sperm as I am 39 and no kids yet. Still hoping. Want to get them stored before I begin something like this. Going to go with California Cryo Bank I guess. I have no idea. Just a shot in the dark. Thanks everyone for being so welcoming and helpful so far. Will update with Hormone labs in a week or so.