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Thread: HCG advice

  1. #1
    Rjay is offline Associate Member
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    HCG advice

    I am starting HRT within the next week with 50mg of cypionate 2x/week. I plan on using hcg as soon as possible to avoid any atrophy and Im wondering if I can add it in straight away or if I should wait to get my follow up bloodwork?

    Id like my protocol to look something like this

    Tuesday AM: 250iu hcg
    Thursday AM: 50mg cypionate + 250iu hcg (same shot)
    Sunday PM: 50 mg cypionate + 250 iu hcg

    I plan on doing all shots subcutaneous. Any help is appreciated.

  2. #2
    lovbyts's Avatar
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    What does your doctor suggest? Are you self medicating? If so why?

    No reason to wait for blood work since hcg is mostly for atrophy and fertility.

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    Rjay is offline Associate Member
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    No I'm not self medicating but my doctor is very uneducated in the matter. Im just with him for reliable medicine and bloodwork until I can find a new doctor, hopefully in the near future.

    Regarding starting the hcg and T at the same time what if sides occur, how will I know which is the cause? Do most people who do both start them at the same time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rjay View Post
    No I'm not self medicating but my doctor is very uneducated in the matter. Im just with him for reliable medicine and bloodwork until I can find a new doctor, hopefully in the near future.

    Regarding starting the hcg and T at the same time what if sides occur, how will I know which is the cause? Do most people who do both start them at the same time?
    Well, if you are suffering from low T, the only side effect you will feel from these two meds is great feeling of well being - IF done correctly.

    But I don't think it's a good idea to schedule your doses as you describe as it may cause unwanted sides. hCG increases T production, so you bumping things up by taking THAT large a dose along with you T. This may cause an increase in E2 levels and it's best to avoid THIS side effect. Easy enough to take your hCG on the days you don't take T.

    That leaves only one day that you're not injecting. What the heck. Why not just split everything into low dose daily injections. It works for me. And it keeps E2 levels lower. IMO, there really isn't any issue starting both at the same time, but as I said, if done sensibly.

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    I'd suggest dropping Tuesdays hcg and go forward with your plan...that's the exact protocol I'm going to try.

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    Rjay is offline Associate Member
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    2sox that leaves 4 days im not injecting as 2 of the hcg injections would be in the same syringe as the T, what benefits have you noticed from daily injections? Lifted ya thats what Im leaning towards as well

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    I'm also injecting daily,15mg Testosterone Cypionate and 100iu hCG , double-loaded into one syringe, and injected subcutaneously.

    My reasons for doing so are the following:

    • It seems logical to me that daily injections provide the most consistent blood levels, perhaps even surpassing gels and Nebido.

    • Daily doses are small making subcutaneous injections a snap.

    • Smaller doses mean lower E2 spikes.

    • Small subcutaneous injections enable me to use the BD Ultra-Fine II syringe with a 30g needle.


    Once you get over the initial hurdle of injecting, the small doses really do make daily injecting easy. My doses above make a load of only 0.25mL; higher concentrations of Testosterone and/or hCG would provide even smaller loads. In my case, I preload my syringes and keep them in the fridge.

    Each morning I'll take one out, let it adjust to room temperature as I'm doing other things, and then inject. Injecting, even with a 30g needle, takes just seconds. I don't know how I could be more happy with the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OingoBoingo View Post
    I'm also injecting daily,15mg Testosterone Cypionate and 100iu hCG , double-loaded into one syringe, and injected subcutaneously.

    My reasons for doing so are the following:

    • It seems logical to me that daily injections provide the most consistent blood levels, perhaps even surpassing gels and Nebido.

    • Daily doses are small making subcutaneous injections a snap.

    • Smaller doses mean lower E2 spikes.

    • Small subcutaneous injections enable me to use the BD Ultra-Fine II syringe with a 30g needle.


    Once you get over the initial hurdle of injecting, the small doses really do make daily injecting easy. My doses above make a load of only 0.25mL; higher concentrations of Testosterone and/or hCG would provide even smaller loads. In my case, I preload my syringes and keep them in the fridge.

    Each morning I'll take one out, let it adjust to room temperature as I'm doing other things, and then inject. Injecting, even with a 30g needle, takes just seconds. I don't know how I could be more happy with the process.

    So your preloading your syringes with test and HCG? How often do you load new syringes? I am curious about your method....

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    Quote Originally Posted by spacemon View Post
    So your preloading your syringes with test and HCG? How often do you load new syringes? I am curious about your method....
    No, he is saying he gets everything out, (takes the hcg out of the refrigerator) loads both the hcg and test into the syringe and lets it sit for a bit to warm up closer to room temp before injecting. He does this each morning, 7 days a week.

    I have considered doing the same and it may be better because I know if I dont have a set daily routine it's easy for me to forget my hcg and even test for several days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spacemon View Post
    So your preloading your syringes with test and HCG? How often do you load new syringes? I am curious about your method....
    Yes. I preload a number of syringes and store them in the fridge.

    Prescription hCG and Testosterone in Thailand only comes in small ampoules; 2mL Testosterone Cypionate , and 1mL hCG (but I custom mix hCG to get the dose I want).

    If all goes well, I should end up with 12 or 13 double-loaded syringes with a couple days of hCG left over. The 12 or 13 syringes last 12 or 13 days. I save the leftovers (hCG) for the next time I preload, and use those syringes first.

    I keep everything in a toolbox with an added padlock to keep out the curious. And the toolbox stays in the fridge.

    FYI: I let everyone who hangs around the house see inside to demystify the box. Never know what people will do if they're curious enough. Now that they know, they don't care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    No, he is saying he gets everything out, (takes the hcg out of the refrigerator) loads both the hcg and test into the syringe and lets it sit for a bit to warm up closer to room temp before injecting. He does this each morning, 7 days a week.

    I have considered doing the same and it may be better because I know if I dont have a set daily routine it's easy for me to forget my hcg and even test for several days.
    I apologize if my previous posts weren't clear, but I really do pre-double-load my syringes. Because I'm doing 12 or 13 at a time, it means I only have to load every 12 or 13 days.

    You are absolutely right about the daily routine, and I meant to include that in my list of reasons. Living in paradise is great, but it's easy to forget what day it is. With a daily routine, it doesn't matter which day it is.

    And should I have a late night out and miss a dose (even if I prefer not to), I figure missing such a small dose will have much less impact than missing all or half of a weekly dose.

    Also with daily doses I'm less concerned about injecting late. If I I'm too fragile in the morning, I just bury my head in a pillow and wait for the afternoon to roll around.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OingoBoingo View Post
    I apologize if my previous posts weren't clear, but I really do pre-double-load my syringes. Because I'm doing 12 or 13 at a time, it means I only have to load every 12 or 13 days.

    You are absolutely right about the daily routine, and I meant to include that in my list of reasons. Living in paradise is great, but it's easy to forget what day it is. With a daily routine, it doesn't matter which day it is.

    And should I have a late night out and miss a dose (even if I prefer not to), I figure missing such a small dose will have much less impact than missing all or half of a weekly dose.

    Also with daily doses I'm less concerned about injecting late. If I I'm too fragile in the morning, I just bury my head in a pillow and wait for the afternoon to roll around.
    Ahh OK I missed that.

    Yeah yeah rub it in, I'm still in the US. lol Yeah I had a lot of people tell me to NOT make plans before going to Thailand but of course I didnt listen and have every thing figured out what I was going to do before I got there. I through my itinerary away about 2 hrs after arriving.

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    Oingo said it all. Couldn't be clearer.

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    Rjay is offline Associate Member
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    Hows the libido, energy, workouts etc on that routine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rjay View Post
    Hows the libido, energy, workouts etc on that routine?
    I'm in my sixties and for my age, I feel great. Like I did in my fourties. Hit the gym almost every day for two hours. I'd like to feel like I was in my thirties but I'm exceedingly satisfied. However, I need to take 12.5mg exemestane every 5.5-
    6 days to keep my E2 under control. But that's me. Would be nice not to need an AI but I have no complaints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    Ahh OK I missed that.

    Yeah yeah rub it in, I'm still in the US. lol Yeah I had a lot of people tell me to NOT make plans before going to Thailand but of course I didnt listen and have every thing figured out what I was going to do before I got there. I through my itinerary away about 2 hrs after arriving.
    I encourage visitors to make plans, but suggest the first item on the list should be to throw the list away.

    Things happen at a different pace here, but they do eventually happen. If visitors know what they want to do and aren't hung up on a strict itinerary, they can usually get everything done.

  17. #17
    Rjay is offline Associate Member
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    Awesome good to hear. If your injecting everyday why not use something like propionate rather then cypionate ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sox View Post
    Oingo said it all. Couldn't be clearer.
    Thanks 2Sox.

    I'm curious if you switched from another protocol. If you did, did you notice any other benefits? Lower dose? Better feeling?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rjay View Post
    Hows the libido, energy, workouts etc on that routine?
    Please remember that I'm just starting out, but libido is improving daily, more energy than I've had in years, and stamina in the gym is through the roof.

    Maybe it's too much information but this morning's orgasm was staggeringly electric. Like getting tazered but in a good way. I haven't felt like that since I was 19.

    I'm intentionally trying to take things slow, but I see progress.

    It's always possible that how I feel might be a placebo effect, but no way the smell of my gym clothes is just in my head.
    Last edited by OingoBoingo; 07-14-2014 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sox View Post
    I'm in my sixties and for my age, I feel great. Like I did in my fourties. Hit the gym almost every day for two hours. I'd like to feel like I was in my thirties but I'm exceedingly satisfied. However, I need to take 12.5mg exemestane every 5.5-
    6 days to keep my E2 under control. But that's me. Would be nice not to need an AI but I have no complaints.
    After I'm done with this thread, I want to update my thread with an E2 question. I hope you can stop by and share your advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rjay View Post
    Awesome good to hear. If your injecting everyday why not use something like propionate rather then cypionate?
    In Thailand, you either get your stuff from a registered hospital, or you take your chances.

    I get my stuff from a hospital, and they didn't offer Propionate . It might be available at pharmacies, but you never know what their stock is like. Or the quality. I don't think I have ever bought counterfeit drugs in Thailand, but I know people who have. And I have bought stuff from pharmacies that were not stored properly.

    Besides, didn't Crisler say it stings?

    And one thing about a shorter ester (depending on the half-life) is that it may complicate things as far as missed or late doses go. I haven't really thought about it since the hospital didn't have it.

    I think I read that Cypionate is the most commonly prescribed Testosterone in the US, so I'm happy to stick with that for now.

  22. #22
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    Ya cypionate definately is the most common. I was listening to some podcasts on TRT at danger and play and they rave about prop for the frequent injections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rjay View Post
    Ya cypionate definately is the most common. I was listening to some podcasts on TRT at danger and play and they rave about prop for the frequent injections.

    Why do they rave about it?

    I googled it this morning, and it looks like the half-life of Testosterone Propionate is only 24 hours.

    That means if you are injecting daily, 24 hours later you'll be at your half-life. It seems to me it's more of a sawtooth pattern than a consistent level.

    On the other hand, with Cypionate , you are still riding the peak values of the previous 4 or 5 daily injections (depending on the study), and the dose that dropped to it's initial half-life is only 1/7th of your weekly dose. It seems to me that would provide much more consistent levels than Propionate .

    Although there haven't been any studies that I know of, and it's only conjecture on my part, it seems logical to me that Cypionate is the way to go. But I have an open mind. If you have more information about Propionate, I would love to hear it.

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    I believe the half life of prop is 48 hours. They use 35-50mg every 36-48hours and theyre trough levels are VERY high. Im a new user so I cant submit a URL but check them out if it at all interests you. (I'm not doing that protocol myself, just thought you might like it considering your already doing ED)

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    You may be right. It looks like the Propionate half-life is longer than I said.

    But they're injecting 36-48 hours instead of daily, so they'd be running into similar problems. And 36-48 hours aint daily.

    35-50mg is much larger than my daily dose of 15mg. And don't forget there's hCG on top of that. I prefer to keep my injections small if I can.

    Thank you for the information. I'll look around and see what I can find. Always happy to learn more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OingoBoingo View Post
    Please remember that I'm just starting out, but libido is improving daily, more energy than I've had in years, and stamina in the gym is through the roof.

    Maybe it's too much information but this morning's orgasm was staggeringly electric. Like getting tazered but in a good way. I haven't felt like that since I was 19.

    I'm intentionally trying to take things slow, but I see progress.

    It's always possible that how I feel might be a placebo effect, but no way the smell of my gym clothes is just in my head.
    No better place to be than Thailand when you have a high libido. Thats where I was about 6 months after starting HRT thank god.

    Maybe you have not felt that way since you were 19 because this morning she was 19? hehehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rjay View Post
    No I'm not self medicating but my doctor is very uneducated in the matter. Im just with him for reliable medicine and bloodwork until I can find a new doctor, hopefully in the near future.

    Regarding starting the hcg and T at the same time what if sides occur, how will I know which is the cause? Do most people who do both start them at the same time?
    I know this is an old thread but I am constantly astounded at how Doctors are so damned uneducated in matters of TRT and AAS I general. These are medical doctors! And they don't know crap. If I see another once a month 200mg Test-c TRT protocol I'll.... rant quietly in my mind.

    Some of what passes for TRT is downright dangerous to body and mind.


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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grappler13 View Post
    I know this is an old thread but I am constantly astounded at how Doctors are so damned uneducated in matters of TRT and AAS I general. These are medical doctors! And they don't know crap. If I see another once a month 200mg Test-c TRT protocol I'll.... rant quietly in my mind.

    Some of what passes for TRT is downright dangerous to body and mind.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Amen, they set my brother up every two weeks and i straightened it up to every 3.5 days.

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