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Thread: Switch from Subq to IM-4 week BW update

  1. #1
    jch3131's Avatar
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    Switch from Subq to IM-4 week BW update

    Hey guys, after my last BW I was unhappy with the results. Well the doctor switched me from subq to IM injections and things look alot better now. I am doing 50mgs every MWF, 300iu or HCG on the days between shots (Tues, Thurs, Sat). I can feel my libido getting better and I have a better sense of well being. My energy is still low and still curious if its bc my blood counts are still on the high end. I last donated on 7/18 and cant donate again until 11/7. Still havent figured out the best AI protocol. I took .5mgs of anastrozole 2 weeks before the test bc I was feeling estro sides. Take a look and tell what everyone thinks.

    WBC- 5.8 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL 01
    RBC- 5.50 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL 01
    Hemoglobin- 17.3 12.6-17.7 g/dL 01
    Hematocrit- 50.5 37.5-51.0 %

    Thyroid Panel With TSH
    TSH 1.170 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL 01
    Thyroxine (T4) 7.2 4.5-12.0 ug/dL 01
    T3 Uptake 32 24-39 % 01
    Free Thyroxine Index 2.3 1.2-4.9 01

    Testosterone, Free/Tot Equilib
    Testosterone , Serum 902 348-1197 ng/dL 01
    Testosterone,Free 27.24 HIGH 5.00-21.00 ng/dL 02
    % Free Testosterone 3.02 1.50-4.20 %

    Insulin -Like Growth Factor I 219 98-282 ng/mL 02

    Estradiol, Sensitive 31 3-70 pg/mL

  2. #2
    Joco71 is offline Senior Member
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    How long did you do sub Q ? How long has it been that you switched to IM ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joco71 View Post
    How long did you do sub Q ? How long has it been that you switched to IM ?
    I was on SubQ for a little over 10 weeks. Been on IM for 4 weeks. Feeling a lot better on IM

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    Joco71 is offline Senior Member
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    How do you do your IM needle size and what is your injection site? Just wondering because I started IM First 3 shots Then went Sub Q for the last couple weeks. But I feel like with sub Q I dont feel the test as much as I did with IM. I had PIP with IM but the sub q is very comfortable. With that said I may go back to IM to get what I pay for from the test. Was this you experience as well I have no BW to prove that its based off how I feel.

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    What day was the blood drawn for this test result? What was your subq protocol and bw results? you are injecting a good bit of test and hcg quite often and i would guess with this current protocol you would have similar results subq.

    imo everything looks ok except for crit...might want to talk to your doc and get a script for donating sooner than november.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joco71 View Post
    How do you do your IM needle size and what is your injection site? Just wondering because I started IM First 3 shots Then went Sub Q for the last couple weeks. But I feel like with sub Q I dont feel the test as much as I did with IM. I had PIP with IM but the sub q is very comfortable. With that said I may go back to IM to get what I pay for from the test. Was this you experience as well I have no BW to prove that its based off how I feel.
    I inject with a 29g 1/2 in needle into my delts. No pain no problem. Subq takes longer to absorb and get your levels up from what I have read. Being new to TRT I think it would be less of a hassle for me to get dialed in with IM and see how I react. Then maybe one day if needed I will make the switch to Subq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifted1 View Post
    What day was the blood drawn for this test result? What was your subq protocol and bw results? you are injecting a good bit of test and hcg quite often and i would guess with this current protocol you would have similar results subq.

    imo everything looks ok except for crit...might want to talk to your doc and get a script for donating sooner than november.
    This draw was on a monday morning before any shots, so my last test shot was on friday and my last hcg was on saturday. No shots on sunday.

    Below is from my last thread and shows my prtocol and my results. Subq does take longer to get the results you want and many here love it. For me being new to trt me and my doctor both thought it better to go with IM first to get myslef feeling better and get a better and quicker idea of what I need.

    This is my 8 week BW update. I will post the 4 week blood work and this 8 week blood work to compare.

    4 week blood work 7/16/2014

    20 mg test cyp ED subq
    100iu HCG ED
    .5 mg Adex EW

    RBC 5.83 (4.14-5.80) x10E6/uL
    Hemoglobin 18.3 (12.6-17.7) g/dL
    Hematocrit 54.3 (37.5-51.0) %
    TSH 1.430 (0.450-4.500) uIU/mL
    Thyroxine T4 7.4 (4.5-12.0) ug/dL
    T3 uptake 32 (24-39) %
    Free Thyroxine Index 2.4 (1.2-4.9)
    Total Testosterone 546 (348-1197) ng/dL
    Free Testosterone 16.60 (5.00-21.00) ng/dL
    % FT 3.04 (1.50-4.20) %
    Estradiol Sensitive 17 (3-70) pg/mL

    The doctor told me to donate blood and also cut my Test dose in half to 10 mg ED subq. I donated double red blood cell (420ML total blood). I also cut out the adex completely but that lead to some nipple pain so I went on .5 mg EOW. I have been feeling tired, no strength, ED, Low libido, just all around horrible.

    8 week blood test 8/15/2014

    10 mg ED test cyp subq
    100iu ED HCG
    .5 mg adex EOW

    RBC 5.35 (4.14-5.80) x10E6/uL
    Hemoglobin 16.9 (12.6-17.7) g/dL
    Hematocrit 49.4 (37.5-51.0) %
    TSH 1.720 (0.450-4.500) uIU/mL
    Thyroxine T4 7.6 (4.5-12.0) ug/dL
    T3 uptake 33 (24-39) %
    Free Thyroxine Index 2.5 (1.2-4.9)
    Total Testosterone 318 (348-1197) ng/dL
    Free Testosterone 9.54 (5.00-21.00) ng/dL
    % FT 3.00 (1.50-4.20) %
    Estradiol Sensitive 18 (3-70) pg/mL
    DHT 22 (30-85) ng/dL
    DHEA sulfate 217.2 (138.5-475.2) ug/dL
    Prolactin 7.0 (4.0-15.2) ng/mL

















    http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...-subq-trt.html

  8. #8
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    i think the 4 week subq bw was headed in the right direction, but your doctor made the wrong choice cutting your T dosage in half to try and lower your crit. actually those total/free numbers are fairly close to my 6 week lab results from 50mg test/250iu hcg subq every 3.5 days.

    imo you should have increased test by 20mg/wk (Kels advise to me and what I did actually) and donated double reds to lower crit. Either way you are on the right track and I think you could achieve these results with whatever delivery method you prefer...just get those crit levels down brotha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifted1 View Post
    i think the 4 week subq bw was headed in the right direction, but your doctor made the wrong choice cutting your T dosage in half to try and lower your crit. actually those total/free numbers are fairly close to my 6 week lab results from 50mg test/250iu hcg subq every 3.5 days.

    imo you should have increased test by 20mg/wk (Kels advise to me and what I did actually) and donated double reds to lower crit. Either way you are on the right track and I think you could achieve these results with whatever delivery method you prefer...just get those crit levels down brotha!
    I definitely feel a lot better. I just need to figure out IF i need an AI and the best protocol for it.

    I have been working out of town lately and found a donation center different from mine back home and I went in, they asked in I had donated double red blood cells in the last 16 weeks and I told them a small white lie so I was able to donate today. So in 8 weeks when I get back in my home town I will donate again lol. Hopefully this will put me in a position where a typical 8 week whole blood donation will keep my crit in the 45s. Thanks for your input Lifted!

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    It seems to me that most respond better to IM. Am I correct on this? Just from reading the board im seems to increase total and free more than the same or more of sub q

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasondd1 View Post
    It seems to me that most respond better to IM. Am I correct on this? Just from reading the board im seems to increase total and free more than the same or more of sub q
    Subq protocols are still somewhat new and not many people have taken a leap to that side as of yet. I know there are quite a few people here that are on that protocol and absolutely love it for many different reasons. I have read many threads from people that actually took the time to make a study on IM vs SQ and concluded that they were getting higher levels with fewer Mgs on an IM injection. Although, I have seen articles from people that were the other way around. I dont think it would be right as of now to say the majority respond better to IM injections, everyone seems to respond to it differently. Some people may not be willing to put in that extra time it takes to absorb through subq.

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    Everyone's different. There are many on this forum that swear by subq. I've been doing subq for about eight months or so and have had good success with it. It's definitely easier than IM for me. I'm going to try IM for a while and do BW to see how I do. It's really a personal choice. Works for some and not for others. But then hrt is like that. Some need 150 mg or 200 mg where many of us do well with 100 mg. do whatever works for you.
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    I switched to subq 3 weeks ago and much prefer injecting this way. The main reason I changed was to control E2 levels and less AI. BW coming in another month or so.

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    I agree with Beethoven. Just choose what delivery method works best for you and stick with it...you will figure out what it takes to get optimal levels eventually.

    It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacemon View Post
    I switched to subq 3 weeks ago and much prefer injecting this way. The main reason I changed was to control E2 levels and less AI. BW coming in another month or so.
    I did the same a while back. Going to do an experiment to see what the actual difference is for me between IM and subq.

  16. #16
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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    SQ is proven effective but there are some guys that just don't seem to respond to it quite as well:

    Subcutaneous administration of testosterone. A p... [Saudi Med J. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

    There is no need to inject 3 times per week unless a hyper-excreter. Two times is sufficient. If you have a verified E2 problem just add in the lowest possible dose of adex 24hrs after each (two) injections and retest in a month.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Joco71 is offline Senior Member
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    Kelkel is .5cc 250mg/ml of test 2x per week. Will this work ok for sub q with insulin needle 30g 5/16 length. Your wisdom please!

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    The norm for SQ seems to be no more than 60 to maybe 75mgs per injection. Lumps can develop. The amount your proposing is 125mgs per injection and is too much, imho.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Thank you sir !!

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