Tweaking protocol, advice needed!

[Rjay]

Hey guys, so everythings been going great with my doc I met with her again to discuss how the last month has been (currently on 120mg/test split 2x/week, with 600iu split 3x/week with roughly 50-75mg DIM/day). After agreeing things are getting better but some improvement is still welcome we decided to up my overall hcg dose to 900iu/week and test to 140mg/week which I can assume will put me at close to ideal numbers. My doc said she doesn't mind if I stay on my current injection protocol but is also open to me going to more frequent injections but said she would leave it up to me. Currently this is what my protocol looks like:

M
T 200iu hcg
W
T 60mg test
F 200iu hcg
S
S 200iu hcg, 60mg test

Overall energy, mood,and libido are doing well BUT I notice on Sunday my energy crashes a bit Im thinking due to E2 conversion. SO Im wondering, due I stay on this with my increased doses OR do I move to something like HCG day 1 Test day 2 repeat in order to keep things more stable? Im doing IM test injections so EOD is probably as frequent as Im willing to go, but hcg is on the off day so technically that would be every day.

[2Sox]

If you are going to inject every day, might as well use an insulin syringe, do it SQ, and load your hCG and T into the same syringe.
Consider 16mg or 18mg/day of T. Add in the hCG at whatever dose you want. I do 125iu/day

[Rjay]

I started out subQ but my doc switched me to IM. I thought about that but Ill have to bring it up with her. I found I had to heat the T up to get it out of the insulin syringe, but hcg is best cold how do you do it?

[Lifted1]

hcg is water based so it loads easy in the 31g insulin syringe cold. I recently started using a 31g insulin syringe for my test also (hcg first, testosterone second) and it loads "drip by drip" and takes about a minute for 50mg at room temperature. You might consider a M/W/F protocol, split everything as evenly as possible and do Hcg/Test in the same shot. Less injected at once, less e2 spike.

[2Sox]

Yes, talk with you doctor but I'd suggest YOU tell her what treatment plan you'd be more comfortable with. As the saying goes, it's your body and your health.

ALWAYS draw the hCG first, then the T. There is however a special technique to then draw in the T Cyp. Insert the needle in to the rubber stopper, pull.....and be patient. It will load. I know. I do it this way every day.

BTW, Lifted's suggestions are good ones.

[Rjay]

Thankfully my doc is very open minded, she is willing to let me choose as long as I keep to the weekly dosages we discussed. I can't decide where to go myself though haha. 2sox how do you like doing ED? Would you ever change it or do you consider it to be the only way to go? Lifted what does your protocol look like, looking ripped in your pic btw good shit.

[Lifted1]

Protocol was every 3.5 days Tuesday/Friday 350iu Hcg and Wednesday/Saturday 70mg Testosterone , but I recently switched to a M/W/F protocol to try to alleviate e2 symptoms without AI. I use Wednesday as a bump day and do the smallest Hcg/T doses on this day.

thanks for the compliment brotha!

[Rjay]

Hmm thats an interesting protocol actually Im assuming you do subq? How come you didn't decide to go more frequent?

[2Sox]

Thankfully my doc is very open minded, she is willing to let me choose as long as I keep to the weekly dosages we discussed. I can't decide where to go myself though haha. 2sox how do you like doing ED? Would you ever change it or do you consider it to be the only way to go? Lifted what does your protocol look like, looking ripped in your pic btw good shit.

I wouldn't change daily dosing. I'd recommend it for everyone. It's SO easy - whatever your schedule is. Do it while you're having your morning coffee. Since a daily dose is so small, it takes no time at all to load. I advise hCG first because oil is lighter than water. It will always float to the top of any container. So if you overdraw your hCG it's difficult to push it back it since the T will have already floated to the needle end - which is the top of the "container".

There are many reasons I like daily dosing. First and foremost, you have less trouble with E2 conversion. MUCH less. Then there is the fact that you have basically very stable levels compared to once or twice a week injecting. I take Aromasin /Exemestane at 12.5mg every 6 days and I'm good. Very good. But of course everyone is different and each has to find his own way. One of the things I learned here is that there is no such thing as one size fits all.


About drawing: We know that it takes a little more force to draw the T into the insulin syringes. So if you do it the other way (hCG first, T second) you'll see when you insert the same needle with T inside already into the hCG vial, you'll automatically start drawing with the same force which leads to inevitable overdrawing of hCG. I stopped doing it this way immediately when I saw this.

[Rjay]

Cool thanks for the info I sent my doc an email asking what she thinks of this idea, I agree that it does seem like the best way to go, I hate the energy drop an E2 spike brings on for me it affects my mood as well. What injection spots work best for you?

[Rjay]

Do you ever warm up your bottle of t to get it to draw easier?

[2Sox]

Cool thanks for the info I sent my doc an email asking what she thinks of this idea, I agree that it does seem like the best way to go, I hate the energy drop an E2 spike brings on for me it affects my mood as well. What injection spots work best for you?

Geez. Anywhere you have a layer of fat or loose skin. Abs, thighs, love handles, even pubic area.

[kelkel]

What are your current numbers prior to changing your protocol? T, FT and E2...
I'd be cautious raising both T and HCG simultaneously. That small 20mg jump in Test can sometimes cause a dramatic increase in T. It doesn't move up in equal percentages...
What makes you think your having such a large spike in E to make you tired? You may be tired, but I seriously doubt your protocol is causing it. You're human. We get tired.

Example: If I dose at 60mg twice per week I run in the 900's or so. If I up it to 70 twice per week I'm in the 1400's to over 1500.

[Rjay]

My doc got me to do a saliva test, my bio available T was 250pg/ml (141-342) and e2 was 2.2 (<2.5). It seems I crash hardest on injection days and more so if I take hcg with it as well. Prior to being on DIM to control e2 I constantly had the wiped out feeling i get sometimes after taking hcg and t on the same day. DIM cleared it up nicely on a day to day basis and drastically increased my energy and mood except for what I just mentioned. Thats a crazy jump in numbers you get! Im getting more testing done in roughly 2 weeks so Ill be able to tell if anythings out of wack. Im going to do saliva tests on 4 seperate days:thu,fri,sat,sun so I can see how my T and e2 vary from day to day and how hcg and cyp individually vary those numbers giving me a good idea of how to move forward

[Lifted1]

Hmm thats an interesting protocol actually Im assuming you do subq? How come you didn't decide to go more frequent?

Yes subq. Honestly, I don't want to pin any more frequent than I have to while optimizing my levels. IMO M/W/F will definitely keep your level very stable while reducing e2 better than an every 3.5 day protocol.

[Rjay]

Yea I agree lifted BUT I dont want to inject hcg and T on the same day, seems to increase my e2 a bit too much so thats one thing Im really trying to plan around

[Lifted1]

i guess you could throw Hcg in tuesday/thursday and do a monday~friday protocol, but If you're injecting less of both at the same time, it might not spike e2 as much.

[Rjay]

Thanks for your advice man, I dont really want to inject every day either. I will have to do some playing around but I like your idea of three days per week with one 'bump day'. Im looking forward to getting the 4 day test done I will be able to make a more educated guess once I see my e2 range, ill also try to see how well DIM works for controlling my e2 at different doses.

[Lifted1]

no problem brotha. eat plenty of broccoli and include cashews in your diet as they both help lower estrogen naturally.

update this thread with your findings and your new protocol once you get it sorted.