Low T, Pregenenolone Steal, Esptein Barr Virus...

[ItalianPride]

Hey All, still trying to figure out what is going on with my body since 2010 when i used Anavar and Prop for 6 weeks.

I trained for a while until i crashed * fatigue * in 2012 of May. I been to Natural Doctors A4M doctors and all they want is your money. This chiropractor actually pin pointed what is going on but i honestly cant afford him at the moment. I was curious what you guys thought of my issues.

I am 27 years old
5'11 190 - 200 lbs

I discovered i have Epstein Barr Virus and it took over my body. Lots of fatigue but i am getting better. HCG makes me feel better but if i train i still fatigue. EVERYTHING gets sore when i train or work out accept my quads. Its been like this since 2012. Could anyone on this forum tell me who to see or what to do to fix this issue? Maybe X Ray? i Asked so many sports med doctors and theyre like protein or something stupid. i wouldnt train for months and go lift * squats * and not be sore the next day. Its a different kind of burn when i do quads. I was thining since i am a sprinter on a bike that ive used my quads so much the parasite that i have is stealing all my nutrients and my quads arent getting any to heal???

Here is what this doc said.

Couple of things going on, Monocytes and eosinophils are functionally high, 9% and 5% respectively could be indicative of a parasite and/or food/environmental sensitivity, You white Blood cells are functionally low as well at 4.9 which again could be consistent for a chronic parasite. DHEA for your age is low, while blood cortisol is elevated. You are in a pregnenolone steal phase, where your DHEA supply is going towards cortisol production. Acute stress, GI inflammation, that parasite, and other issues, not blood sugar cause it looked pretty good if you indeed did fast for the test. Interesting, your saliva test weren't elevated, nor were they extremely low. Again, both suggest an "adapted response" to stress. So to answer your question: is this adrenal fatigue? No, it is a stage 2-3 maladapted low reserve to stress, with a pregnenlone steal, and perhaps some kind of infections driving Monocytes/Eosinophils
Your free testosterone is low. However, total testosterone, LH, and FSH are all normal, so your not necessarily having a signally primary problem in the Hypothalamus/pituitary, which signal the release of testosterone. It's more secondarily. Plus, these are blood values, I like much more the saliva values of testosterone, LH, and FSH. I also noticed your liver enzymes are slightly elevated as well. This is where hormone production predominately takes place. Fix these first.
ou have some sluggish kidneys its seems too. Listen these are mostly functional ranges not laboratory ranges. So a lot of doctors will miss these. Meaning, you're are suffering, and I'm going over it with a fine tooth comb. Another thing, is your total triglyclerides in relationship to cholesterol is low, about 30%, should be between 40-60%. When its this low, perhaps an autoimmune condition is going on. When I have an autoimmune patient, I'll typical try to fix the fundamentals. Blood sugar levels, an infections, an anemias, liver issues, kidney issues, get that person off gluten, dairy, and corn.

[ItalianPride]

If anyone has any Input on my condition or any questions. Feel free to comment. It sucks i had to spend my 20s with no enthusiasm on life.
Thanks in advanced guys

[2Sox]

Sorry to hear you are so unwell. Epstein Barr is a common virus related to herpes and it can wreak havoc on your energy - which apparently it is. I'd suggest you look into antivirals, if you haven't already. Have you considered Valcyclovir as a treatment for this virus?

Consider finding a good endocrinologist.

[Heapsreal]

I have been through something similar and still am, since 2002, doesnt give you alot of hope, but u can get better and improve for sure.
google the chronic fatigue syndrome road map, this has plenty of good info on testing and treatment.

It can be very relapsing and remmitting type illness where u can function at 95% for a while and then crash into a mess being in bed all day.

I would look at also getting other herpes viruses tested like cmv and hhv6. Your abnormal immune tests make it likely that its possible ebv could be reactivating. Dont fall for the usual from docs that its just a past infection because u dont have igm antibodies, they really dont know if u have a viruses thats reactivating or not.

I suggest get a lymphocyte subset test done and cd8 t cells being high is an indication ebv/cmv/hhv6(all glandular fever/mono type viruses) can be an issue. Also an natural killer function tests, not a natural killer cell numbers, generally this is low in cfs/me patients and is more evidence that these viruses could be reactivating.

After all that the only way to know is to use antivirals, famvir seems to have good effect again all those viruses to certain degree, your also using the evidence from your testing to make an educated decision to trial antivirals. It can take 3-6 months to feel better unfortunately.

The hormone dysfunction can be because u have a chronic illness, maybe try to lower cortisol which will help sleep and help recovery. High cholesterol can be from the pregnenolone steel or from viral infections steeling cholesterol, so the liver ups its production to make up for it.

You will gets some goo info on phoenix rising amd the cfs road map.
You will find many docs and specialist with leave you even more clueless, best to get on a cfs forum and ask people who they see in your area etc.

good luck

[2Sox]

^^^It's very kind of you to respond to the OP with so much detail. Unfortunately, I found it difficult to follow most of what you said because of the use of so many abbreviations. Do you think you can edit your post to make it clearer? Thanks.

[ItalianPride]

He doesnt need to make it clear man. He knows what hes talking about and thanks for reply 2Sox but after u saying go see an endo , that tells me right there that you dont know what these docs really are about.

Heapsreal, i talked to a retired doctor that doesnt have much time anymore to consult with people but he took some time to help me with my issues through email. he says i have reactivated mono and the best thing to do is rebuild the mitocondrial with strength training and alot of sleep. to rebuild the muscle energy and ATP. i tried that and i fatigued after a couple weeks. im not sure if thats my answer.

im going to def google the cfs roadmap. this all happened when my test got shutdown. so weird?

[2Sox]

He doesnt need to make it clear man. He knows what hes talking about and thanks for reply 2Sox but after u saying go see an endo , that tells me right there that you dont know what these docs really are about.

It's likely that Heaps very well knows what he's talking about. But if I and others don't know what he's talking about, it's more difficult for us to offer help. And that is, after all, what this forum is for. So I'd suggest you drop your attitude (unless I'm reading you wrong) and give us a hand with this. Maybe if all this was made clearer, there would be more than 6 replies to this thread.

[Bonaparte]

It's likely that Heaps very well knows what he's talking about. But if I and others don't know what he's talking about, it's more difficult for us to offer help. And that is, after all, what this forum is for. So I'd suggest you drop your attitude (unless I'm reading you wrong) and give us a hand with this. Maybe if all this was made clearer, there would be more than 6 replies to this thread.

His point was that if you can't follow along, then you don't know much on the topic and have little advice to offer. Hepsreal didn't use any unusual abbreviations, just the standard ones that are always used in place of the whole 20 letter word.

CMV= cytomegalovirus
hhv6= human herpes virus 6
IgM= Immunoglobulin M
CD8 = cluster of differentiation 8 OR CD8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know shit about the Epstein-Barr virus and associated abbreviations, but I've got mad Google skills.

[2Sox]

His point was that if you can't follow along, then you don't know much on the topic and have little advice to offer. Hepsreal didn't use any unusual abbreviations, just the standard ones that are always used in place of the whole 20 letter word.

CMV= cytomegalovirus
hhv6= human herpes virus 6
IgM= Immunoglobulin M
CD8 = cluster of differentiation 8 OR CD8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know shit about the Epstein-Barr virus and associated abbreviations, but I've got mad Google skills.

Thanks for looking these up and doing the legwork for all of us. And you make a good point that if we can't follow along we likely can't offer much help.

Here's the point: If you want others to be useful and to learn enough to be useful, you don't make the job more difficult by using terms that many may not know the meaning of. You don't assume people know what you are talking about or put people in a position of doing homework just to understand what you are talking about. IMO, it's unkind to do this - and self defeating. I'll give an example: I taught science for thirty years. If I came into the classroom tossing around abbreviations and technical terms without first giving rudimentary lessons - while assuming my students knew what I was talking about - what kind of learning experience would have taken place? When a teacher does that his only purpose is to show off and feel superior to his students and gloat in his students' lack of knowledge. At best it's poor teaching.

We don't need that here.

[ItalianPride]

My bad man, just dont like the MD thing. All they want is your money. Medicine = cure symptoms not the root problem. And they dont even care about your health at all. Ive seen some people actually get misdianosed and then more symptoms and get allll f'd up from a stupid MD.

[2Sox]

My bad man, just dont like the MD thing. All they want is your money. Medicine = cure symptoms not the root problem. And they dont even care about your health at all. Ive seen some people actually get misdianosed and then more symptoms and get allll f'd up from a stupid MD.

I hear you. But it's not good for you or anyone else to make generalizations about everyone in an entire profession. Doctors are just people, and just like all people they are flawed. Some are good, some are bad but they are still people who happen to have a huge responsibility. We've all met some who have been incredibly skilled and caring. It's up you - each of us - to use your best mind to evaluate every health care provider you meet and be a good critic them when the opportunity arises. It's not useful or efficient to dismiss the entire profession wholesale. In my view, it just sets you up for continuous disappointment. IMO, this is not a wise position to put yourself in - unless there is something you like about being angry and disappointed.

[Heapsreal]

Sorry about the abbreviations but i guess its like coming here and people using abbreviations like AI or dbol and we take it that most people understand. I did mention herpes viruses like mono/glandular fever which i thought would be familiar to most. Like beginners on these types of forums, i guess i expected people to do some googling, those who it effects generally do google further. I did go back and edit things after the first reply, that i thought would make it more helpful.

I will generalise here about doctors and treating cfs, most dont understand it and think its a form of depression, this can be a secondary symptom but not always present, its probably more related to autoimmune/immune deficiency/chronic infection, its not black and white but very grey. Its similar to seeing a GP about TRT, most arent as knowledgable about it as people on this forum and it can be hard to locate a good TRT doc. Its probably 50 times harder to find a doc who understands cfs. We cant expect doctors to know everything, but it would be a good doctor who can tell his patient he doesnt understand something instead of bluffing his way through.

A good forum on cfs/me is Phoenix Rising, it can be daunting trying to understand everything and many fall into a variety of subsets which complicates things. The cfs road map can help you rule out some obvious things and help go after abnormalities found. I would like to say there is a cure but for the majority its about managing symptoms and infections etc and pacing your activity. Pacing can be dam hard with this illness especially if your use to pushing yourself in the gym etc. You will find those that struggle the most with this were former athletes. It also takes time to be attuned to your own symptoms etc.

Most wont really understand unless they have it themselves or a relative close to them has it, but this thread is here now and hopefully if someone stumbles across it they can pick up some ideas.

@ItralianPride good luck.
Im on the phoenix rising forum if u want to pm me there or here if its easier.
cheers!!