Need help with my TRT question...

[mike11d11]

I've been taking testosterone cyp for about the last 3 years from my dr do to low T levels. He has basically been telling me there is no problem with taking the test cyp every week for the rest of my life which i find that hard to believe and that is why i've been doing alot of research over the last few months on trying to reverse my issue if possible. From the blood test he's taken he has determined it is 2ndary hypogonadism, which is my pituitary gland not sending the LH signals to my guys to produce my own Testosterone and said there is nothing we can do about that problem?? I started doing research online about testosterone and realized this is the same stuff bodybuilders are taking and realized it turns off natural testosterone in them as well, but they some how learned what helps turn it back on. I actually have a couple questions I was hoping someone could assist me with.

1. Is there anything that can be taken to help get off the testosterone for a bit to kick back on natural testosterone and get my pituatary gland working properly? For the last 30 days i have tried stopping the test cyp and have been taking HCG and Clomid (2 weeks) and i feel perfectly fine like my own test is working. From my research HCG acts as if the body is sending LH signals so i don't think it is really helping with the core issue for my pituitary gland not being able to send the signals my body needs.

2. If i'm going to be taking the test cyp i was contemplating taking another anabolic steroid with it to get better results in the gym like Deca . I posted it in another forum and they suggested getting my TRT under control but wasn't exactly sure what that means if there is no solution for the issue above. Would Deca be a good choice to start with in combination of test cyp, i've seen several examples like the novice cycle II on this site. And would you suggest any other things i could be doing while off the test cyp in conjuction with the HCG?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[bullshark99]

Mike,

You will be hard pressed to find others that disagree but before you start messing with Deca you need to get your TRT program/protocol all dialed in. This would include T, HcG , and more than likely an A.I.
Post all your BW for more responses

[Beethoven]

Mike,

You will be hard pressed to find others that disagree but before you start messing with Deca you need to get your TRT program/protocol all dialed in. This would include T, HcG , and more than likely an A.I.
Post all your BW for more responses

Agreed. If you're trying a restart, the last thing you should consider is anything that will shut you down. If your quest fails and you're back on TRT and have everything dialed in then yes, otherwise no.

[kelkel]

How old are you Mike?
Was an MRI performed?
Was there anything else on your pre-TRT blood work that would have been suppressive to your natural test production. Hypothyroid, prolactin, etc.
If you were properly diagnosed then coming off test would usually only result in going back to your normal, crappy levels of test.
Yes, test is the same stuff BB-ers take. It's exactly the same thing your body used to make on it's own. It's a wonderful thing for us. Imagine life without this advantage....
You can always try a restart with clomid and nolva, both SERMS that will help to stimulate your pituitary to begin functioning. If, in fact, it will.
Know that HCG is suppressive of LH function so taking both HCG and clomid at the same time is not appropriate nor beneficial.
HCG only mimics LH, it does not initiate a natural pulse of it.
You feel fine as the HCG is stimulating test production. Basically HCG Mono-therapy.
If you plan on continuing this course of action stop the HCG and run clomid by itself. Then you'll eventually see if the stimulation works. Then the question is will it hold a higher level when you stop?

Like both guys said above. Either come off and try to restart or accept TRT and dial in your protocol via proper BW, HCG and an AI if needed. Once that is done then and only then should you consider a cycle. And that cycle should simply be more testosterone . Read the "Successful First Cycle" sticky thread in the AAS Q&A Forum.

Welcome Mike.

[mike11d11]

I'm 34 years old and started having symptoms of low T at about 31. I'm pretty fit guy been an athlete all my life never really getting to out of shape that I would think cause something crazy to happen in my body to cuase the low T. I'm about 215lbs right now and 15-16% bf. The only thing i can think that possibly caused this was me taking pro-hormones when i was younger around 19-20, not sure why it took over 10 years to affect me but now i'm feeling it. Here is the latest BW from my endochronoligist.

Name Value Reference Range
TESTOSTERONE ,TOTAL,MALES 401 241-827 ng/dL
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 11.0 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.51 4.20-5.80 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 15.5 13.2-17.1 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 48.9 38.5-50.0 %
MCV 88.7 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 28.2 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 31.8 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 13.8 11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 254 140-400 Thousand/uL
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 7260 1500-7800 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 2860 850-3900 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 770 200-950 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 110 15-500 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 0 0-200 cells/uL
NEUTROPHILS 66 %
LYMPHOCYTES 26 %
MONOCYTES 7 %
EOSINOPHILS 1 %
BASOPHILS 0 %

I typically took about 50mgs of test cyp a week but probably about the last 30-45 days before this test i was taking about 100mgs week because i was getting better results in the gym and was just feeling better. These test are always run 7 days after my last injection first thing in the morning before 10am. The last 2 test my results where 200 or less and that was when i was taking 50mgs. I wasn't worried about upping the dosage because this is what my dr wanted me to take in the first place.

So I think you helped me figure out what i need to do to kick on my natural LH signals. So correct me if i'm wrong, a good course of action now should be stop the HCG now (been on it for 30 days with no test cyp in system) and now i need to take some nolva and clomid for 4 weeks? How long after the nolva and clomid should i wait to get a blood test to see where i stand naturally?

Here's another question, if say my natural testosterone starts producing again like it should would it be stupid to try and take a cycle properly using my new knowledge of doing proper PCT afterwards? I really do enjoying hitting the gym and seeing gains, at least the gains that i was getting by only taking the 100mgs of test cyp was amazing for me.

Thanks again for the tremendous knowledge and help, can't thank you guys enough!

[kelkel]

100mgs per week sounds much better. That's a normal starting dose. Now if that dose was split to 50mgs every 3-4 days you'd have much more stable levels and better E2 control. Food for thought.
Yes, if you're going to try a restart (as you think you were not properly diagnosed) then yes, stop the HCG and 3 days later initiate your SERM protocol with Nolva and Clomid. Something similar to this:

Nolva: 40/40/20/20/20/20
Clomid: 100/50/50/50/50/50

A normal pct for guys on cycle is around 4 weeks. I'd extend yours as you've been shut down for 3 years. Honestly, I'm not that optimistic about this working for you but if it clears your conscience, so be it.

Yes, it would be stupid. Why on earth would you go through the trouble of restarting (if even possible) to only shut yourself down once again? You need to make a decision Mike. Also consider giving blood. Your HCT is edging up.

[mike11d11]

Yes I ended giving blood twice now which got my red blood cell count back to normal. I'm not sure what your break down for the Nola and clomid is or means 40/20/20 etc.. Is that how many mgs per week or per day?

[mike11d11]

100mgs per week sounds much better. That's a normal starting dose. Now if that dose was split to 50mgs every 3-4 days you'd have much more stable levels and better E2 control. Food for thought.
Yes, if you're going to try a restart (as you think you were not properly diagnosed) then yes, stop the HCG and 3 days later initiate your SERM protocol with Nolva and Clomid. Something similar to this:

Nolva: 40/40/20/20/20/20
Clomid: 100/50/50/50/50/50

A normal pct for guys on cycle is around 4 weeks. I'd extend yours as you've been shut down for 3 years. Honestly, I'm not that optimistic about this working for you but if it clears your conscience, so be it.

Yes, it would be stupid. Why on earth would you go through the trouble of restarting (if even possible) to only shut yourself down once again? You need to make a decision Mike. Also consider giving blood. Your HCT is edging up.

Ok just out of curiosity say you are right and my natural testosterone never kicks back on like it should, what would a typical cycle and pct and recovery time look like in that scenario. The normal protocol for someone without issues is cycle > pct > then few weeks for body to restore to natural functioning order. In my case if i can't restore the natural part I would just got back to 100mgs of test until i'm ready to do some sort of stacked cycle if i decide to go that route. Or is the pct even necassary (nolva and clomid) if that function is to restore natural test signals for LH..