Issues with Test Cyp/HCG Routine

[One Way Step]

Hello All

A little background; I was diagnosed with hypogonadism at age 13. My endocrinologist gave me test cyp from age 13-16 to get through puberty. Worked great. Got taller, got hairier, p3n!s got bigger, and I literally had erections all the time.

I stopped the test cyp shots at age 16 and began experiencing problems with my body failing to produce the necessary hormones. I went on HCG which worked very well; kept me slim and got my s3x drive back in order.

Eventually the HCG stopped working properly so I went off that too and got by with ED medicine. Fast forward to age 21 and I go back on test cyp. Keep upping my dose because nothing is working. Eventually at 1000mg every two weeks which is causing all types of sides but not improving my dead s3x drive.

I lowered the dose way down to 500mg every few weeks and eventually incorporate HCG into the mix. For a while it worked well. I was on 400mg test and two shots of HCG every two weeks. But my inconsistency with shots and additions/subtractions to counteract how I was feeling or any issues led to this not working again.

For the past year I have been on 200mg test and one HCG shot every two weeks which worked well although my s3x drive was weak. I would get by with ED medication. Now the 200mg test and one hcg shot are not doing the trick either and my sex drive is gone. I recently added arimidex (0.5 mg every other day).

Any suggestions on what I should do to correct all of this and find a proper routine?

[BigPimpin76]

I would personally advise you to keep your blood levels more stable by injecting 100-150 mg wkly.
You have been carrying your body to a rollercoaster ride and it has been trying to keep at homeostasis but you wont let it by altering the dose!
I would also advise in reading into Nebido injections! It seems to benefit a lot of people on this board.
I am also on Nebido and have found a good feeling of balance.
Im sure other Bros a going to chime in with their input
Best of Luck and educate yourself more on TRT

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[One Way Step]

Thanks for the advice bro.

Do you think I should split the 100-150mg dose into twice a week doses (e.g., 50mg every tuesday and friday)?
Also do you think I should up the HCG to twice a week? I am a little naive when it comes to determining proper calculations of the hCG I take but I mix 200ml of bac water into a 10,000iu HCG vial then inject 50mls using an insulin syringe.

[BigPimpin76]

Thanks for the advice bro. Do you think I should split the 100-150mg dose into twice a week doses (e.g., 50mg every tuesday and friday)? Also do you think I should up the HCG to twice a week? I am a little naive when it comes to determining proper calculations of the hCG I take but I mix 200ml of bac water into a 10,000iu HCG vial then inject 50mls using an insulin syringe.

I would chillax a bit with the HCG for a while.
Get used to wkly injections of twice a week starting at 100-125 mg split x2 a wk.
See where that gets you.
At firts you may not need an Ai, if you do use i would advise to use Aromasin . Also do BW!!!! Thats your best compass!
Read up on NEBIDO on this site, lots of reads.
It may be something for you as well.
Cheers Bro

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[Lifted1]

Bp gave you some good advise on more frequent dosing to help balance you out. You could do 2xwk for your testosterone (50mg every 3.5 days), but you should be injecting 250iu's of Hcg 2xwk minimum. You could do the test/hcg together in the same syringe to simplify your protocol...just load the hcg first.

Also, you need to get some blood work done 4 weeks after you pick a routine/protocol and stick with it. Then you will know what adjustments to make instead of just guessing.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Thanks for the advice bro. Do you think I should split the 100-150mg dose into twice a week doses (e.g., 50mg every tuesday and friday)? Also do you think I should up the HCG to twice a week? I am a little naive when it comes to determining proper calculations of the hCG I take but I mix 200ml of bac water into a 10,000iu HCG vial then inject 50mls using an insulin syringe.

I don't use HCG so I could be wrong but...
By my math you are injecting 2500ius per shot. You should be doing about 250ius twice a week.

[2Sox]

Some good advice so far. Post up some recent blood work so we can all see what's going on. Curious to know what the original cause of your low T. Can you fill us in?

Also, what is meant by "the hCG stopped working properly"? Doesn't sound scientific. Please explain.

I'd advise you definitely continue your hCG dosing. I'd suggest 750iu/week broken up any way you like. DON'T stop for many reasons. Read the "sticky" post on this forum for a good primer on hCG.

As has been stated, two times weekly dosing of T Cyp (or more often if desired) yields more stable blood levels. Find out how your estradiol is and start out on Aromasin , if needed. When the time comes, you can discuss dosing here.

By the way, your doctor knows NOTHING about correct TRT protocol - or he wouldn't be dosing you every two weeks. (This scenario has been the subject of countless posts on this forum.) This could be a large cause of your symptoms - along with an excessive estrogen spike - especially at the high doses of T you have been taking.

My prediction is this: If you dose more often, continue hCG, and get your estradiol under control, you'll have to sleep on your back and will become very interested in sex in no time at all.

[bullshark99]

2sox and the others may be spot on with there advice as is usually the case, however, without BW anything! Tossed your way is nothing but a guess. You do present a unique scenario for this board as in your young age and the dosage you were at one point injecting. I seem to be lately "defending" people injecting 150mgs or higher as many think this is overkill. Personally I do not and have been at this level a long time with no sides and within clinical range, however, you at one point were pumping in a pretty significant dose. Regardless, I would not comment one bit on your scenario without seeing blood work
My friend, I can only imagine the frustration you have dealt with thru your teenage years! Wish you all the best, please follow up and share with us blood work. If you have none (recent) consider it one of the best financial investments you will make.....

[One Way Step]

Thanks for all the replies.

To answer some questions...
1) Started TRT at age 13 for hypogonadism
2) When I say the HCG "stopped working properly" I mean that, for whatever reason, I lost my stable maintenance dose and was unable to get back to it. Looking back on it, I was (incorrectly) overusing the HCG in a desperate attempt to boost my s3x drive.
3) For as long as I've been on HCG I have been taking my doses at 2500iu, from once to three times a week. And yes I agree with you guys, my doctor hasn't been much help in getting my body back on track and seems to offer the same answers (more/less test, more/less HCG shots, ED pills, etc).
4) I have an appointment with my endocrinologist in January so I will get lab work done then once I have been on my routine for a while.
5) Speaking of my endocrinologist, he is the same one that I have been seeing since age 13. I live in a rural area so he is the only option around. I have traveled to nearby large cities to see endos but they haven't provided me with any different information. To be honest, you guys are more helpful than all the doctors I've seen.
6) The frustration was, and is, unreal.

Okay so back to my routine; I've concluded that the best thing for me to do at this stage (without having BW) is to do two test cyp shots and two hcg shots per week, probably a Monday and Thursday kind of deal. I will also be taking 0.5mg amiridex every Mon, Wed, Fri.

I just need to figure out now what doses of test and HCG to use. The HCG is the biggest mystery to me right now; all of you guys are suggesting doses that are much smaller than I've ever taken. I'll have to think about the test cyp to see if more/less would be best.

Again, thanks all!
-One Way Step

EDIT: I know I am ignorant to it but could somebody explain how I should mix the HCG and BA water to get these suggested doses (250iu, 750iu, etc). The only way I have known how to do it is by mixing a vial to have four 2500iu shots in it. I will admit I am not caught up to date with the lingo for HCG.

[Lifted1]

np brotha. i learned everything i know from this site so im just paying it back.

I would suggest staring with 60mg of testosterone 2x/wk if doing subcutaneous injections or 50mg 2x/wk intramuscular. Take your hcg the same day as your testosterone to simplify things. I would not run ai until you pull blood 4 weeks from new protocol to see if you actually need it. Even if you did run ai, your suggested dose is way too high.

To reconstitute your hcg in a way to obtain accurate/easy measure, use 1ml of bacteriostatic water per 1000iu of hcg. (5000iu hcg vial would use 5ml of water) Then with a 1ml insulin syringe, every .1 = 100iu

[One Way Step]

I have 10,000iu vials and use 1mg insulin syringes for BA mixing and for injections. Specifically, here is the exact medication that I receive in my prescription:

Just so I understand this correctly (like i said I'm pretty ignorant about HCG and want to make sure I do this right), I should put 10ml of BA water into the HCG vial. At that point I can draw out appropriate doses. 250iu would be .25ml on the syringe. 750iu would be .75ml on the syringe.

If I was using 250iu then this concoction should yield 40 doses of it. Am I correct with this or am I way off?

[Lifted1]

yes mix the whole 10ml vial of bac water into the hcg vial.

yes .25ml=250iu and you will have 40 doses

[One Way Step]

Glad I'm starting to get it. Thanks bro.

I'm thinking my routine is gonna begin like this; 75mg Test Cyp twice a week, 250iu HCG twice a week, 0.5 anastazole twice a week.

Is there any issue with taking all three medications on the same day? Was thinking Monday and Thursday.

Also if my days are gonna be Monday and Thursday should I start this upcoming Monday or wait until Thursday for the medication in me to get out of my system (somewhat).

Again, you guys are awesome! Glad I found this page

[dreadnok89]

Hcg really makes my estrogeN go wacky. When that goes wacky you will have problems

[BigPimpin76]

What I am suspecting here is that you are self administering TRT without any supervision from a Doc correct? Self administration is not bad at all, many of us do it, and its because of some Dumb ass Docs who know jack!
So I am thinking you jumped on the TRT situation too quick with some miserable results.
Yet on the other hand you are not alone in this journey !! The good news is that by following this forum you will find knowledgable Bros that will help you out plenty. Read up, stick around and ask questions and people are going to help!!! I started out a year ago with this issue and learned quite a bit and yet I have a lot to learn! Every day you will find that things will make more sense!!!

IS THAT RIGHT BROS?

Again, I wish you the best

I have 10,000iu vials and use 1mg insulin syringes for BA mixing and for injections. Specifically, here is the exact medication that I receive in my prescription: <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154360"/> Just so I understand this correctly (like i said I'm pretty ignorant about HCG and want to make sure I do this right), I should put 10ml of BA water into the HCG vial. At that point I can draw out appropriate doses. 250iu would be .25ml on the syringe. 750iu would be .75ml on the syringe. If I was using 250iu then this concoction should yield 40 doses of it. Am I correct with this or am I way off?

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[One Way Step]

Thanks man.

My endocrinologist allows me to self administer at home, as well as lets me alter doses if needed. Now I'm starting to see that the limited things he's taught me have been wrong.

Looking forward to correcting all of this!

[BigPimpin76]

Start by correcting this first:
Or you aren't listening to his advice and playing around with Doses.
Or

I advise you strongly to find a new Doc. I am sure other will agree. Its your call and your health

Thanks man. My endocrinologist allows me to self administer at home, as well as lets me alter doses if needed. Now I'm starting to see that the limited things he's taught me have been wrong. Looking forward to correcting all of this!

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[One Way Step]

The main issue that I have is available resources; he is the only endocrinologist within a 50 mile radius.

[BigPimpin76]

The main issue that I have is available resources; he is the only endocrinologist within a 50 mile radius.

Ok then stick around and do more reading!!!

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[2Sox]

I have 10,000iu vials and use 1mg insulin syringes for BA mixing and for injections. Specifically, here is the exact medication that I receive in my prescription:

Just so I understand this correctly (like i said I'm pretty ignorant about HCG and want to make sure I do this right), I should put 10ml of BA water into the HCG vial. At that point I can draw out appropriate doses. 250iu would be .25ml on the syringe. 750iu would be .75ml on the syringe.

If I was using 250iu then this concoction should yield 40 doses of it. Am I correct with this or am I way off?

Save you water. (No pun intended.) You can mix 4mL of water into the 10,000iu vial. If you want to inject 250iu, just draw up 0.1mL into a 1cc insulin syringe. In fact, to do SQ you ought to get a supply of them.

[One Way Step]

Save you water. (No pun intended.) You can mix 4mL of water into the 10,000iu vial. If you want to inject 250iu, just draw up 0.1mL into a 1cc insulin syringe. In fact, to do SQ you ought to get a supply of them.

I ended up going with this mixing method and then drawing 0.1ml.

Now that my vial contains 40 doses, this should theoretically last me 20 weeks. The HCG vial states to discard it after 8 weeks. Should I just use a new vial every two months or could I stretch the vial use to 3-4 months?

Also, today I started 80mg test, 250iu HCG, and 0.5 anastazole for twice a week (Mon and Thurs). Do you think 500iu of HCG may be too low? I know its hard to say since I don't have my BW results yet.

[2Sox]

I ended up going with this mixing method and then drawing 0.1ml.

Now that my vial contains 40 doses, this should theoretically last me 20 weeks. The HCG vial states to discard it after 8 weeks. Should I just use a new vial every two months or could I stretch the vial use to 3-4 months?

The general consensus around here regarding how long reconstituted hCG will last seems to be this: The amount of potency lost over several months is minimal. If your stones are still plump, there is no worry. However, I would suggest you next get 5000iu vials in order to eliminate this concern.

[hawk14dl]

I can't believe everything I read. Unbelievable, what your Dr has done.

Anyways, I have one important bit to mention. I noticed you once said you were going to take .5 mg armidex twice a week. I feel like that's entirely too much. If anything, take .25mg.

I'm taking 80mg test 2x weekly and 350iu hcg 2x weekly. My e2 is in check without an Ai at all.

Most protocols start with 100mg/we test (50mgx2) and 250iu hcg 2x a wk. No Ai to begin with unless you're predisposed to gyno. After 6wks, blood work well tell you if you need to add an ai or change dosing.

But if you take .5 mg adex twice a week on this dosage, you'll probably crash your e2 and feel miserable

[One Way Step]

Thanks for the advice.

I just took my first dose of everything today (80mg test, 250iu HCG , 0.5 arimidex ) and my sex drive immediately crashed. Here we go again...

The last dosage I took was of 200mg test and 2500iu hcg last wednesday.

[hawk14dl]

Highly likely it was the adex.
A lot of guys take their ai the day after injection. That's when test peaks, and the ai is fairly rapidly acting.

I'd say take your test/hcg on Thursday (mon/Thursday is typical) but skip the ai. Next week, take .25 the day after injecting.

This can be a rough transition, but consistency is what trt is all about. Stick with the program and you'll be fine

[One Way Step]

Highly likely it was the adex.
A lot of guys take their ai the day after injection. That's when test peaks, and the ai is fairly rapidly acting.

I'd say take your test/hcg on Thursday (mon/Thursday is typical) but skip the ai. Next week, take .25 the day after injecting.

This can be a rough transition, but consistency is what trt is all about. Stick with the program and you'll be fine

I'm certaintly familiar with how rough it can be in my years of being on trt. Appreciate the advice with the anastazole.

[APIs]

Something doesnt sound right. OP is all over the place with dosages & appears to be self-medicating with a severe lack of knowledge. A thousand milligrams of Test Cyp bi-weekly - really? No blood work to show? What Endo would write such a protocol? No offense, but stop playing Doctor & find a competent TRT specialist...

[BigPimpin76]

X2 what I said in the beginning when I started posting!
Anyways, we have all done our mistakes!
Lets just help him out to the right direction

Something doesnt sound right. OP is all over the place with dosages & appears to be self-medicating with a severe lack of knowledge. A thousand milligrams of Test Cyp bi-weekly - really? No blood work to show? What Endo would write such a protocol? No offense, but stop playing Doctor & find a competent TRT specialist...

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[One Way Step]

All doses I've taken, including all the ones written above, were all from my Endo. And I agree, I've been very unhappy with his service.

[2Sox]

Thanks for the advice.

I just took my first dose of everything today (80mg test, 250iu HCG , 0.5 arimidex ) and my sex drive immediately crashed. Here we go again...

The last dosage I took was of 200mg test and 2500iu hcg last wednesday.

As API said, you've got to settle down to one protocol and not be all over the map - and find a good doctor. You've gotten many suggestions so far.

Keep it simple. If you are injecting twice weekly you may want to try taking your 250iu of hCG the day before each shot. Arimidex is VERY strong stuff and will crash your E2 in no time if you take more than you need. Develop a healthy respect for this medication. Consider Aromasin instead. Whatever the case, if you're using this med try dosing .25mg the day after each shot and see how you feel. And keep to ONE protocol. If you want to change anything, change one thing at a time and keep to it for at least four weeks to see what changes in how you feel.

[thewarrior8845]

one way step, when i started trt i was on 100mg test, 250iu x2 per week, and .25 adex every other day. felt good but my sex drive sucked. ive experimented with my dosages and ive found that i dont need hcg or adex. i just take 50mg twice per week and im feeling great. my sex drive i on point. why dont you start with the testosterone at a lower dose (100mg) and see how your body reacts? do blood work and adjust from there or add another medication (adex, or hcg). and stick with one program for at least 2 months. like others have said if you keep changing your dosage your never going to give the medicine a chance to work.

[One Way Step]

Okay so I managed to see a new endo (had to travel 1.5 hours). He said that I should do either 400mg test every two weeks in one of two forms; 400mg shot every two weeks or 100mg shots twice a week. He also took my bloods.

He left me a message today saying my test was 480 and my estrogen levels "were okay." He also suggested going up to 500mg if I felt the 400mg wasnt working, and to discontinue HCG .

Now I used to do 500mg twice a week and did not get the results I wanted, mainly with my sex drive which was low. It also caused some facial swelling. But this was with a straight 500mg shot; perhaps breaking it up to 125mg shots twice a week will change the outcome.

I am not sure why I am having such difficulty obtaining a healthy sex drive, especially with all the trial and error that has been done with my other endo over the years. I am leaning towards trying 125mg but am not too optimistic.

[2Sox]

Okay so I managed to see a new endo (had to travel 1.5 hours). He said that I should do either 400mg test every two weeks in one of two forms; 400mg shot every two weeks or 100mg shots twice a week. He also took my bloods.

He left me a message today saying my test was 480 and my estrogen levels "were okay." He also suggested going up to 500mg if I felt the 400mg wasnt working, and to discontinue HCG .

Now I used to do 500mg twice a week and did not get the results I wanted, mainly with my sex drive which was low. It also caused some facial swelling. But this was with a straight 500mg shot; perhaps breaking it up to 125mg shots twice a week will change the outcome.

I am not sure why I am having such difficulty obtaining a healthy sex drive, especially with all the trial and error that has been done with my other endo over the years. I am leaning towards trying 125mg but am not too optimistic.

It seems like you haven't read the suggestions here in your own thread. Or not payed attention to them. If you want the advice of the members here, I think you should show you have gained value from it. What is your intention?

And what is your opinion of the advice this new Endo gave you - based on what you have learned here already? I think it's important for you to express this.

I feel you are still too all over the place and haven't made up your mind about what actions you are going to take with your health. And we still haven't seen any blood work. Without that we cannot be as useful as we'd like to.

[One Way Step]

This new endo wants 250mg test a week (two shots of 125mg) and no HCG . This is obviously different from the suggestions of 100mg test a week and some HCG that was presented here.

Certaintly not saying anybody is right or wrong, but truth be told I take your advice over his since you guys have the first hand experience of dealing with these medications. I guess all I am trying to say is that I am conflicted and confused as to what I should actually do.

Sorry I don't have the BW numbers; my endo left this on a voicemail and I was unable to reach him back today.

[One Way Step]

Here is my bloodwork from a few weeks ago;

TSH, Ultrasensitive 2.40 uIU/ml
Free T-4 1.15 ng/dl
T-3 Uptake 37.5%
T-3 (Total) 1.14 NG/ML

LH <0.1 mIU/ml
Prolactin 5.6 ng/ml
Estradiol, serum 40 pg/ml
Testosterone 490ng/dl

The new endo that I have been seeing wants me on 250mg test with no AI or HCG . He says all levels are normal and he doesn't see any reason for why I would be having a low sex drive.

As you can see, both this new endo and my old endo are of no help. I have read a lot more into TRT so I am a little more knowledgable as to how to determine a routine (I'm sorry if it appeared that I was not listening to advice here in previously threads, I was just confused between what I was reading here and my endo's bullshit).

In the past, I have attempted low dose test injections (100mg per week) and they did not work for me. I had low energy, no sex drive, and actually gained weight and lost muscle.

[OingoBoingo]

The new endo that I have been seeing wants me on 250mg test with no AI or HCG . He says all levels are normal and he doesn't see any reason for why I would be having a low sex drive.

As you can see, both this new endo and my old endo are of no help. I have read a lot more into TRT so I am a little more knowledgable as to how to determine a routine (I'm sorry if it appeared that I was not listening to advice here in previously threads, I was just confused between what I was reading here and my endo's bullshit).

In the past, I have attempted low dose test injections (100mg per week) and they did not work for me. I had low energy, no sex drive, and actually gained weight and lost muscle.

Now that you're more knowledgeable, why not propose a routine to your doctor? It worked for me!

Everyone is different, but I wouldn't feel right at an E2 of 40.

[One Way Step]

I suggested adding adex and HCG and he said that it was unneccessary.

This was the new endo I saw. My old one (who I have seen since age 13) would be supportive of this routine, but he himself is no help either in terms of discussing other methods of fixing my sex drive beside adding/lowering test.

These are my only two endos within a 90 min drive of where I live so I am stuck on that end. But my old doctor, if I find something that works such as a combo of test + HCG + adex, he would be okay with that.

[OingoBoingo]

I suggested adding adex and HCG and he said that it was unneccessary.

This was the new endo I saw. My old one (who I have seen since age 13) would be supportive of this routine, but he himself is no help either in terms of discussing other methods of fixing my sex drive beside adding/lowering test.

These are my only two endos within a 90 min drive of where I live so I am stuck on that end. But my old doctor, if I find something that works such as a combo of test + HCG + adex, he would be okay with that.

Given the choice, I might stick with your first endo.

Finding the right dose might be all you need. Everyone is different, and sometimes it takes a while before seeing benefits in the bedroom.

E2 can also play a part. In my case, too high or too low, and The Mighty Sequoia isn't at his best.

What's your DHT level (anand range)?

Remember: It's not about high numbers; it's about balance.

[One Way Step]

Not sure my DHT numbers; everything that he tested is what I posted.

I'm definitely going to stick with endo #1, but I'm on my own to find a routine. Thinking 250mg test, 500iu HCG & 0.5mg Adex every week.

The main issue I'm having is what doses of HCG and Adex to use. You think the above ones should work or should I increase them?

[OingoBoingo]

My advice is to go slow.

If your previous routine was 125mg per week, I would change it to 60mg twice weekly, and test again in 8 weeks. Then, depending on blood work and how you feel, if you want to titrate up, increase each dose by 10mg.

Pinning Testosterone twice a week, I'd take 100IU hCG daily.

If you are not experiencing any high E2 symptoms, let it ride for now. It's much better to take Anastrozole when needed instead of taking too much. And just 0.5mg of Anastrozole packs a punch!