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  1. #1
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Urgent! Crash after heavy cycle, Low T, Testicular atrophy.

    I am in dire need of some advice, I ran a very heavy cycle under the supervision of my " personal trainer ". I am aware that what I was running is just plain stupid for many reasons but it is over and done with and I am at the stage where I NEED some serious help. Im going to tell you my story as well as I can and as quickly as I can so please bare with me. Im currently almost 22 years of age, I for the first time in my life started going to the gym in November of 2013. After working out and dieting for two months I felt the best I have ever felt. My trainer introduced me to the world of steroids and after doing very little research myself he re assured me that I could confide in him to lead me in the right direction.
    I started by running,
    Week 1-4 TestCyp -250mg - 2cc + 50mg/Daily Anadrol + Oral Tren ( 1cc of TestCyp in each shoulder)
    Week 4-8 TestCyp -250mg - 4cc + 50mg/Daily Anadrol + Oral Tren ( 2cc of TestCyp in each shoulder)
    Week 8-12 TestCyp - 250mg - 5cc + 50mg/Daily Anadrol + Oral Tren ( 2.5cc of TestCyp in each shoulder)
    ( Mind you 5cc is a full syringe )

    Anyway I will continue my story by telling you that by the 12 week I started feeling really sick and I couldn't even make it to the gym anymore, I remember being in bed for about a week thinking I had some sort of flu. I immediately stopped taking any of the steroids considering I was nearing the end of the cycle anyway. After that things went down hill I couldn't go to the gym and finish my exercise without feeling sick and exhausted. Eventually I just stopped going. My trainer told me he has no idea as to what could possibly be causing this, I saw my general practitioner ran blood tests and everything came back fine. My trainer didn't recommend any PCT's, and out of my own knowledge I ran some Nolvadex . I don't think it was run at the proper time but I had no knowledge about any of this at the time. Its been 11 months since I came off and I have had nothing but problems, I have not been to the gym this whole time, I have lost any gains made during my time of training, and Ive had almost every symptom of low testosterone out there. My life has been a living hell.

    In the recent months I have seen a hormone specialist, but he has only done Saliva tests to determine I have low testosterone my estrogen levels are apparently fine. He has prescribed me a topical cream and I myself ordered some HcGenerate to help kick my nuts back in action ( Im pretty sure Im suffering from Testicular Atrophy. ) Ive been taking this Testosterone topical cream for about 2-3 months now and the HcGenerate for about a week. Ive seen minor improvement but nothing close to "feeling normal" again.

    Any form of knowledge would be very much appreciated, thank you all for your time,
    I feel like I've been a prisoner in my body for the last year.

  2. #2
    ojm3 is offline Associate Member
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    Bud I hope u get it worked out! You should kick that trainer square in the balls! He's put you on a path you should have never been on! Your way too young for juice and had no training or diet experience at all. 60 days isn't shiit. I'd try to get a hold of some clomid. you need something to stimulate natty production. Creams and gels are going to keep your balls not working.

  3. #3
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Considering it has been almost a year Im not sure if running any Pct's will do anything at this point? Im so confused at to which direction to go in, the specialist I'm seeing has not been able to help me in any way ...

  4. #4
    ojm3 is offline Associate Member
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    Time for a new doctor. Maybe ask Bros round the gym who their doc is...either way clomid inspires natty production but at a year the point might be moot.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengnote View Post
    Considering it has been almost a year Im not sure if running any Pct's will do anything at this point? Im so confused at to which direction to go in, the specialist I'm seeing has not been able to help me in any way ...
    At your age, I would try a proper PCT. You don't have anything to lose if it doesn't work, but plenty to gain if it does.

  6. #6
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Im starting to think your right..

  7. #7
    bullshark99 is offline Member
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    Sorry to hear of your dilemma, with age does come wisdom but that does you no good right now. First, I would get (regardless of money) the best docter available and get a FULL panel of BW done. None of this non sense saliva test checking to tael T. There is so much more at play that could of potentially been damaged, temporarily or unfortunately permanently. Hopefully it's not the ladder.
    Next I would beat the shit out of the PT for fvcking your health up when he clearly doesn't have a clue, no PCT, please! Don't know how this works but would even speak to an attorney to see if you have any recourse. Yes, I know younwillingful took the drugs but it a heroine dealer sells to someone and they overdose and die, the dealer goes to the "big house". If perm damage can be determined you may have a case.
    Nevertheless, you need to get to the bottom of what's going on and that can only be accomplished with thorough blood work.
    Only 21 years old, take comfort in knowing you are not alone, just a very poor decision. Best of luck, hope you find the root cause.

  8. #8
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    no point going to a lawyer to do what? sue someone for giving bad criminal advice to commit a crime?

    try the clomid restart protocol , google ""htpa restart"" get what you need and do a course , also and i hatetoi say it but go to an endo or an anti aging clinic- if you cn convince the dr to get you on these pharma quality pct drugs you could come back to normal, but i doubt it- your body took 22 years to find its equilibrium, and after a year off its all up shit creek withought a paddle. good luck and keep us posted.

  9. #9
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Thank you, I have already looked into running some Pct's to name them both Clomid and Nolvadex . Im not sure Hcg is a good idea. Regardless I will definitely look into the "hpta restart" you have mentioned and I greatly appreciate your help. I am also going to look into seeing a endo and getting a full panel of bloodwork done before I start anything. I will keep up everyone updated as to what happens next. Once again, much appreciated.

  10. #10
    bullshark99 is offline Member
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    Was basically just venting with the attorney thing but if someone can sue and win because the coffee was too hot it wouldn't surprise me one bit in this hyper sensitive liberal society that someone can file a civil suit and when claiming someone was practicing medice without a license.
    Anyway, only venting, poor advice in hindsight.

  11. #11
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    From the knowledge I have gathered over the last couple of days I have been told to run HCG alongside a AI like Arimidex for about three weeks.
    A 1000iu a week for three weeks, does anyone have any knowledge to share about this ?

  12. #12
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    FONZY007 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengnote View Post
    From the knowledge I have gathered over the last couple of days I have been told to run HCG alongside a AI like Arimidex for about three weeks.
    A 1000iu a week for three weeks, does anyone have any knowledge to share about this ?
    That was the old way to do it, I'm on TRT so I can't comment to much, but most these day use an AI and HCG during the cycle so you prevent from crashing hard

  13. #13
    Bio-Active's Avatar
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    You need to get some labs run and see what is going on. More than likely yes your testosterone levels are low but you need to determine if your lh function is working correctly or whether you are suffering from testicular dysfunction before you start a restart

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bio-Active View Post
    You need to get some labs run and see what is going on. More than likely yes your testosterone levels are low but you need to determine if your lh function is working correctly or whether you are suffering from testicular dysfunction before you start a restart


    Wouldn't you think he should do a restart regardless? He most likely is shut down from the AAS usage

    After my first use I never recovered to normal I was low at around 150ng/ml

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FONZY007
    Wouldn't you think he should do a restart regardless? He most likely is shut down from the AAS usage After my first use I never recovered to normal I was low at around 150ng/ml
    more than likely he will need to do a restart but it's important to determine why his endocrine system is failing to function correctly

  16. #16
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bio-Active View Post
    You need to get some labs run and see what is going on. More than likely yes your testosterone levels are low but you need to determine if your lh function is working correctly or whether you are suffering from testicular dysfunction before you start a restart
    Do exactly this ^^. Get the first set of blood work in the Finding A Doc sticky thread. Determining where the problem lies will help determine how to hopefully correct it, if possible. Don't run HCG at this time as it suppresses LH function. Also, don't worry about the title of the doctor. You just need one who understands hormones and quite honestly, endo's would not be high on my list.....
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  17. #17
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    If that is the case would seeing my Gp and specifying my situation and what area's I want tested in be sufficient?

  18. #18
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    A GP can order BW just like any other doc. Just use caution how much info you relinquish to him as you don't want things in your permanent record.
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  19. #19
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Alright, thanks !

  20. #20
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Also is there any specific things you could recommend I test for? I know of Testosterone , Estradiol, DHEAS, FSH, and LH.

  21. #21
    Bio-Active's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengnote
    Also is there any specific things you could recommend I test for? I know of Testosterone, Estradiol, DHEAS, FSH, and LH.
    get a full hormone panel

  22. #22
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
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    Check out the Finding a Physician sticky for the list of specific tests you will want to get.

  23. #23
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Thanks, I really do appreciate everyone's opinion as well as their knowledge. I can't thank you enough Kelkel, your thread on finding a physician answered any questions I may have had in regard to my testing. Ill keep everyone up to date with what happens, as well as my test results.

  24. #24
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Ive gotten all my BW done, the results all came back " in range ". If everything seems to be fine, than why do I still feel this way? Anyway could you help me as to how to post the results so everyone can take a look, maybe you can offer me some knowledge seeing as how these doctors can't..

  25. #25
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengnote View Post
    Ive gotten all my BW done, the results all came back " in range ". If everything seems to be fine, than why do I still feel this way? Anyway could you help me as to how to post the results so everyone can take a look, maybe you can offer me some knowledge seeing as how these doctors can't..
    "In range" is way to liberal an interpretation. Post up your results with ranges. Everything isn't necessary but at least throw up the important ones.
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  26. #26
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    Just type them in; for example,

    E2 27 Range 11 - 44
    Total Testosterone 850 Range 350 - 1150

    For the most part we're only interested in the tests included in the sticky mentioned above, which may save you some typing.

  27. #27
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    CBC AND DIFFERENTIAL
    HGB 161- RANGE ( 135-175 ) g/L
    HCT 5.37 ( 4.30- 6.00 ) 10**12/L
    MCV 88 ( 80- 100 ) fL
    MCHC 339 ( 310- 360 ) g/L
    RDW 13.1 ( <15.6 ) %
    PLT 251 ( 140- 450 ) 10**9/L
    WBC 5.8 ( 4.0- 11.0 ) 10**9/L
    NEUT 2.8 ( 1.8- 7.5 ) 10**9/L
    LYMPH 2.4 ( 1.0- 4.5 ) 10**9/L
    MONO 0.4 ( 0.0- 1.1) 10**9/L
    EOS 0.2 ( 0.0- 0.7 ) 10**9/L
    BASO 0.0 ( 0.0- 0.3 ) 10**9/L
    NEUT% 47 %
    LYMPH% 41 %
    MONO% 7 %
    EOS% 4 %
    BASO% 1 %
    CALCIUM 2.38 ( 2.10- 2.60 ) mmol/L

    GLUCOSE FASTING
    Glucose, fasting 4.9 (3.3- 6.0 ) mmol/L

    HEMOGLOBIN A1C ( HBA1C )
    Hemoglobin A1C ( HBA1C ) 4.8 ( 4.3- 6.1 ) Recommended target HbA1C 7.0% or less for males and non pregnant females greater than 12 years old.

    Here is the first of three pages of results.

  28. #28
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    LIPID BATTERY
    Patient fasting for 12 hours
    Cholesterol 3.92 ( <6.20 ) mmol/L
    Triglyceride 1.29 ( <1.70 ) mmol/L
    HDL Cholesterol 0.97 (<0.90 ) mmol/L
    LDL Cholesterol 2.36 mmol/L
    Total Chol/ HDL Ratio 4.0

    Magnesium 0.91 (0.70- 1.00 ) mmol/L

    Phosphorus 1.11 ( 0.80- 1.45 ) mmol/ L

    PARATHYROID HORMONE
    Intact PTH 1.8 (1.4- 6.8 ) pmol/L
    Calcium 2.38 (2.10- 2.60 ) mmol/L

    URINE MACROSCOPIC
    Color Unremarkable
    Turbidity clear
    pH, urine 7.0 ( 4.5- 8.0 )
    Specific Gravity 1.023 ( 1.005- 1.030 )
    Protein Negative (NEG)

  29. #29
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    URINE MACROSCOPIC (CONTINUED)
    Glucose Negative (NEG)
    Ketones Negative (NEG)
    Hemoglobin, urine Negative (NEG)
    Leukocytes Negative (NEG)

    Cortisol, AM 513 (120- 620 ) nmol/L
    Estradiol 72 ( <200 ) pmol/L
    FSH 2.4 ( 7.0 ) U/L
    LH 2.9 ( <12.0 ) U/L
    Prolactin 9.8 (<21.0 ) ug/L
    Testosterone , am 12.7 (10.3- 29.5 ) nmol/L

    TSH
    TSH 3.38 ( 0.20- 4.00 ) mU/L

    Everything is there guys.

  30. #30
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    12.7 total test has tanked- at 22 i would expectyou to be around the mid/high 20's.

    go to another dr- technically your dr is right - you are normal - for a man between 19-90 ( you hover around the 85 year old level.) Even an endo crinologist would be hard to convince to treat you properly unless you find the right one.- try an anti aging dr maybe?

  31. #31
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    Yea tell me about it, no wonder I feel so "low". I have seen three different doctors, two being Gp's and the third a hormone specialist. They have been running tests over the last year and neither of the Gp's seem to think there is anything wrong with me because of this "range" nonsense. The hormone specialist prescribed me topical cream testosterone which done absolutely nothing, after three months I stopped taking it and I actually felt better when I was off of it. Im pretty sure I can exclude testicular atrophy due to the fact that I am still after all producing testosterone to some degree within the ranges provided by health care professionals. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone. I was personally thinking of running a low cycle of test with proper dosage as well as HCG and whatever PCT required but I'm not sure I want to do steroids again considering what happened. Any suggestions are much appreciated, at this point I'm pretty much self medicating myself with the help and knowledge of those on this site. Thanks guys.

  32. #32
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    Are Testosterone and hCG controlled substances in your country?

    I don't think many will recommend doing it yourself. Much better to find a knowledgeable doctor who can help you.

  33. #33
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    What do you mean by controlled substances? To be honest I'm not sure where to start looking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengnote
    Yea tell me about it, no wonder I feel so "low". I have seen three different doctors, two being Gp's and the third a hormone specialist. They have been running tests over the last year and neither of the Gp's seem to think there is anything wrong with me because of this "range" nonsense. The hormone specialist prescribed me topical cream testosterone which done absolutely nothing, after three months I stopped taking it and I actually felt better when I was off of it. Im pretty sure I can exclude testicular atrophy due to the fact that I am still after all producing testosterone to some degree within the ranges provided by health care professionals. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone. I was personally thinking of running a low cycle of test with proper dosage as well as HCG and whatever PCT required but I'm not sure I want to do steroids again considering what happened. Any suggestions are much appreciated, at this point I'm pretty much self medicating myself with the help and knowledge of those on this site. Thanks guys.
    Running a low dose cycle of test will shut you down even further... Making it worse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengnote
    What do you mean by controlled substances? To be honest I'm not sure where to start looking?
    He says is it legal to get it from pharmacy without script

  36. #36
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    No it isn't legal to purchase from a pharm

  37. #37
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    I'd stay off testosterone and consider running a proper pct.
    I'd also look into your thyroid further. Your TSH is high (more modern range is .3 - 3.0) which can be indicative of hypothyroidism, which leads to hypogonadism. Test your TSH, FT3, FT4, RT3 and Antibodies and you'll have a much better picture.
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  38. #38
    Bengnote is offline New Member
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    What would running a proper pct do for me at this point? Im going to have everything you recommended above tested as well ill keep you updated.

  39. #39
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Well, you could investigate your thyroid first and correct any issues there if needed. If all that's good then I'd consider a pct as one last attempt to stimulate better endogenous production. If that doesn't work then you have a choice to make. Sometimes simply time will help to restore levels.
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