Test levels not coming back after PCT.

[Terax]

Hi all,


I'm 45, 5'9" & weigh 210 pounds. My Test levels before I did my 1st cycle 2 years ago was 374.


On my 2nd cycle, I did 400mg a week of a Test blend for 12 weeks. My last shot was 4 months ago. My PCT was...

Clomid - 100mg 3 days. 50 mg 1st week & 2nd weeks, 25 mg 3rd & 4th week.

Nolva - 20 mg 1st & 2nd week, 10 mg 3rd & 4th week.

I had my levels tested after 8 weeks & my Total Testosterone was 342. My doc said this was a little low & asked if I wanted a referral to a specialist. Sure, I thought I could get a script for some Test. Sign me up. I was sent to a urologist who wanted nothing to do with TRT for me but performed another blood test just for the hell of it. Got the results today & my Free Test is 2.8 & Total Test is 113. The doc is supposed to call me back, but I'm not sure what I want to do. If he wants to put me on TRT for the rest of my life, I don't know if I want to do that. Y'know, shut myself down permanently. I'm not even sure if I can get HPTA & balls restarted at this point. I had planned on starting my next cycle in a few weeks, but I'm not sure what I wanna do at this point. Any thought, advice, re-assurances, or corrections?

Thanks

[Terax]

The nurse called me & said my levels are really low & the doc prescribed Clomid & that will get me back to normal. I'm supposed to take 15 mg every other day. I wonder if he's on to me? Lol

[Bio-Active]

Trt is a big choice. It's a lifetime commitment. Take your time before deciding and get a full hormone panel done. Your test levels were pretty low before you cycled at 374

[kelkel]

Do you know your LH & FSH levels currently?
Did you run HCG on your cycles?

Nothing wrong with running clomid as your doc suggested. See what level you achieve and then determine whether you want to come off to see if you hold a better level. At 45 though it could simply be time for some form of TRT. Be it clomid, Test, etc....

Outcomes of clomiphene citrate treatment in young hypogonadal men. - PubMed - NCBI

The benefits and risks of testosterone replacement therapy: a review

[Far from massive]

One thing to keep in mind is that levels fluctuate (particularly after any serious illness etc.) so this may be a large part of the reason for the recent super low reading. However if after taking clomid for a while and then allowing some time for a return to stasis if the numbers are still similar to what they are now you should give serious consideration to TRT as your unlikely to be happy walking around with those values at your age.

[OingoBoingo]

Check out the Finding a Physician sticky for a list of tests you'll want to get.

[Terax]

Ok, so I found a doc shopped & found one who prescribed me 200 mg a week of Test Cyp. It's still a little un-nerving to me that I'll be sticking myself multiple times a week for the rest of my life, but I'm tired of feeling like crap with my Test levels in the low 100's. At the end of a 12 week cycle I'm always so sick of sticking myself, but I just gotta deal. The decision is made.

Over the last 15 months I've stockpiled quite a few bottles of Test so I plan on taking 400 mg a week for a while. In the next day or 2 I'm going to order some HCG & some Nolva as an anti-est. On the Nolva page on this site it basically/kinda says research indicates 20 mg is the does to run along side Test. So my plan is 20 mg of Nolva & 500iu of HCG X2 week. If that needs tweaking, I'm open to suggestions.

I've read that receptors get "clogged" after being on Test for long periods & it's not as effective as it once was for this reason. Even though I'm gonna be on TRT long term, should I take 4 to 6 week breaks every 12 weeks to give my receptors a break/keep a tolerance to Test from happening, or is this theory just BS? EDIT: I now know it's just BS.

[kelkel]

Terax there's so much wrong with what you said above:

1. Why 200 mg per week? Just guessing? That's about the maximum dose. Always best to start low and titrate up based on BW. You avoid sides this way....
2. Try a Sub-Q injection protocol. Much easier for some and just as effective for smaller doses (twice or more per week injections)
3. 400 mg per week is not TRT, it's a cycle. How will you explain that to your doc when he has you submit blood work in a few months?
4. HCG is great but you should talk to your doc about this as well if having a good relationship is in your future. 250 IU's twice per week is enough.
5. Nolva is not an anti-E. It's a serm. Learn the difference. It will do nothing to control your estrogen levels which surely will go through the roof.
6. Receptors don't clog and breaks aren't taken from TRT. Your bodies endogenous production doesn't just suddenly return to normal.
7. If you're going on TRT then go on TRT. Get dialed in and do things properly. Then if you choose to cycle you can do so on occasion.

[Low Testosterone]

Just an observation - you had low testosterone levels before you ever started using anything. When you say test levels not coming back after PCT, the question would be coming back to what? What did you expect?

Also, there's no such thing as clogged receptors. That's internet bro myth. If it were true, the testosterone your body makes, well your body would adapt to that too. This is not a knock against you at all, just a general statement, how things like this get started much less become almost internet fact amazes me. The age we live in I guess.

[Terax]

Terax there's so much wrong with what you said above:

1. Why 200 mg per week? Just guessing? That's about the maximum dose. Always best to start low and titrate up based on BW. You avoid sides this way....
Yeah, the doc said that was the max dose he could give me per week.

2. Try a Sub-Q injection protocol. Much easier for some and just as effective for smaller doses (twice or more per week injections)
Never tried that method, I'll do some research on that. I thought Test needed to be in the muscle.

3. 400 mg per week is not TRT, it's a cycle. How will you explain that to your doc when he has you submit blood work in a few months?
Yes, it is a cycle. The very accommodating doc basically gave me what I wanted with few questions asked. I'm not due to see him for 6 months (I've got refills to last me). He said as long as I bring in my blood work from my work physical to put on file, he wasn't concerned with doing blood work.

4. HCG is great but you should talk to your doc about this as well if having a good relationship is in your future. 250 IU's twice per week is enough.
I don't wanna seem like a demanding patient & ask him for more right now. I'll definitely bring it up at my next visit.

5. Nolva is not an anti-E. It's a serm. Learn the difference. It will do nothing to control your estrogen levels which surely will go through the roof.
Yeah, you're right. After re-reading the Nolva page, I interpreted the anti-gyno traits as anti-estrogen. I have stocked up with 3 bottles of Forma Stanzol which I thought would be illegal in 2015, but see it's still available.

6. Receptors don't clog and breaks aren't taken from TRT. Your bodies endogenous production doesn't just suddenly return to normal.
Everything you read on the Internet isn't true? Ok, gotcha on that. That's a common misconception at my gym & I'll spread the word.

7. If you're going on TRT then go on TRT. Get dialed in and do things properly. Then if you choose to cycle you can do so on occasion.

But doing the right thing is hard & the wrong thing easy! This doc is not a specialist in TRT, but said with my levels so low, that 200 mg a week shouldn't put me out of normal range. I do plan on going back to my family doc to get my levels checked in a few months. I was planning on starting a cycle at the beginning of the year but the doctor visits sidetracked that. My plan was to 400 for 12 weeks, then do 200 TRT for 12 weeks, & repeat.

[Terax]

Just an observation - you had low testosterone levels before you ever started using anything. When you say test levels not coming back after PCT, the question would be coming back to what? What did you expect?

Also, there's no such thing as clogged receptors. That's internet bro myth. If it were true, the testosterone your body makes, well your body would adapt to that too. This is not a knock against you at all, just a general statement, how things like this get started much less become almost internet fact amazes me. The age we live in I guess.

My pre-cycle levels were in the upper 300's. I was expecting to get back to that, but my levels were in the low 100's after my PCT.

Yeah, myth busted. I'll start spreading the word at the gym, but I'm sure most people will tell me I'm wrong. Lol

[kelkel]

But doing the right thing is hard & the wrong thing easy! This doc is not a specialist in TRT, but said with my levels so low, that 200 mg a week shouldn't put me out of normal range. I was planning on starting a cycle at the beginning of the year but the doctor visits sidetracked that. My plan was to 400 for 12 weeks, then do 200 TRT for 12 weeks, & repeat.

Just use your head and understand that you should get dialed in on a TRT protocol so you know what it does to your body first and foremost. Meaning learning what if any AI you may need, the effect your dose has on your hemoglobin and hematocrit (research polycythemia) as it's relatively common for those on TRT, let alone a cycle to have to give blood. All this requires repeat blood work. Your doc giving you 200 mgs per week is fine but it does not mean you need that much. I'm written for the same amount but only use 60 - 70 mg's twice per week. It keeps my numbers where I want them and I'm good long term at that dose. It also allows me to save some for a rainy day as well.

TRT is about your health, long term, so keep that in the back of your mind please. Also you can click on the AR-R banner at the top of the forum and check out their ancillaries. HCG is also available if you look around a bit.

[Low Testosterone]

My pre-cycle levels were in the upper 300's. I was expecting to get back to that, but my levels were in the low 100's after my PCT.

Yeah, myth busted. I'll start spreading the word at the gym, but I'm sure most people will tell me I'm wrong. Lol

I understand, but getting back to 300 isn't much of an accomplishment, simply meaning it's still a very low level. At 300 you'd be lucky to have a free level that's NOT in the low single digits.

As for your PCT, it's only been 4 months. Any regain of what production you naturally have the ability to possess, 4 months isn't a very long time. It can take an average man a full year to fully recover from a cycle, even with what's often and inappropriately referred to as "Proper PCT." I don't say that as an anti-steroid guy, I'm not. But I do think many have a vast misunderstanding and far too much faith in PCT than they should.

[Low Testosterone]

But doing the right thing is hard & the wrong thing easy! This doc is not a specialist in TRT, but said with my levels so low, that 200 mg a week shouldn't put me out of normal range. I do plan on going back to my family doc to get my levels checked in a few months. I was planning on starting a cycle at the beginning of the year but the doctor visits sidetracked that. My plan was to 400 for 12 weeks, then do 200 TRT for 12 weeks, & repeat.

You don't need a doctor that's a TRT specialist. Most who claim this specialty do so by simply saying it. The best doctors for TRT are simply ones that have taken the time to understand it. It's not a difficult thing to understand, it's probably one of the simplest categories of medicine there is, but like anything you still have to take the time to learn and understand it.

[Terax]

Just use your head and understand that you should get dialed in on a TRT protocol so you know what it does to your body first and foremost. Meaning learning what if any AI you may need, the effect your dose has on your hemoglobin and hematocrit (research polycythemia) as it's relatively common for those on TRT, let alone a cycle to have to give blood. All this requires repeat blood work. Your doc giving you 200 mgs per week is fine but it does not mean you need that much. I'm written for the same amount but only use 60 - 70 mg's twice per week. It keeps my numbers where I want them and I'm good long term at that dose. It also allows me to save some for a rainy day as well.

TRT is about your health, long term, so keep that in the back of your mind please. Also you can click on the AR-R banner at the top of the forum and check out their ancillaries. HCG is also available if you look around a bit.

Wise words. I admit that once I made the decision to go with TRT, I'm anxious to jump right in & stop feeling like shite. A year ago when I had my yearly work physical, my blood work was ok (hemoglobin and hematocrit levels were both at the high end of the normal range). Since I was in the middle of a 400 mg Test/week cycle, I assumed I was good for another year. It sounds like once a year blood work isn't gonna cut it.

I often tell people that when I was 35, I thought I had my stuff together. Now at 45, I know I was an idiot 10 years ago. & though now at 45 I feel I mostly have my stuff together, it means at 55 I'm gonna look back & say "Damn, I was such an idiot at 45". Of course, I need to keep myself alive & healthy to reach 55 to do that. Thanks for the reality check.

[kelkel]

No worries. It's what we're here for as most of us have been there and done that as well.

[Terax]

I understand, but getting back to 300 isn't much of an accomplishment, simply meaning it's still a very low level. At 300 you'd be lucky to have a free level that's NOT in the low single digits.

As for your PCT, it's only been 4 months. Any regain of what production you naturally have the ability to possess, 4 months isn't a very long time. It can take an average man a full year to fully recover from a cycle, even with what's often and inappropriately referred to as "Proper PCT." I don't say that as an anti-steroid guy, I'm not. But I do think many have a vast misunderstanding and far too much faith in PCT than they should.

This is true, & though I didn't feel great at 374, it was a whole lot better than I do now at total 113/free 2.8. I was just hoping to get back to 374-ish for 3 months & then do another cycle. Didn't work out that way.

Wow, that blow's the lid off the 'time on = time off' rule for me. Lot's of good knowledge dropped on me today. Thanks.