Anastrozole

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 09:11 PM

Been on TRT for 5 years .No issues till now.Doc said estradiol was maxed so he put me on a estrogen blocker for 3 months.The last month my bloodwork showed it worked.Dropped it to 1 point over the low range.Friggin no good ,been bloated an constipated for a month.Thought it was gastro related or having gut issues.Nope hormones are jacked.Re doing blood work.From what i read to low on estradiol bad.To much not good either.Also side effect on E blockers are constipation.
All hormones have to be working right i assume.I looked up hormonal bloat an aromatose came up.

**Bio-Active** · 02-28-2015, 09:23 PM

How much Adex does he have you running?

**JRFitness01** · 02-28-2015, 09:50 PM

I'm interested in bio question as well I mean I feel like normally you wod have to take well over a mg every day for your levels to drop like that

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 09:53 PM

He had me on 3 months 4 weeks 3 times ,4weeks 2 per week 4 weeks 1 per week tapering down.The first week of the last month i bloated up an got extremely constipated.Blood tests revealed it worked but it was way to low.Iam still slightly bloated now.My digestive system was jacked for the last 3 weeks . i still feel iam not 100 percent.Still have mild bloat an digestive system is like 60 percent.

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:01 PM

1mg tabs
I think he should have started me out on 1 month only an do blood work.

**Bio-Active** · 02-28-2015, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by falcon954

1mg tabs I think he should have started me out on 1 month only an do blood work.

yeah that's way to much dex. Most start at .25 mg eod or .5 2xew

**ppwc1985** · 02-28-2015, 10:06 PM

You don't need that much, my e was in the 90s and 1/4 tab twice a week brought me into normal.

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:15 PM

i tell ya never again.Might find a new doc.

**Chauffeur** · 02-28-2015, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by JRFitness01

I'm interested in bio question as well I mean I feel like normally you wod have to take well over a mg every day for your levels to drop like that

Not at all man. We see people around here pretty frequently who crash their E2 on seemingly small doses of Adex.

Obviously it's going to depend on the individual as well as their protocol, but Adex can bottom out your E2 pretty easily...and quickly.

If it's taken when its not needed, it won't take much to cause a problem.

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:25 PM

how long or does your hormones sort things out on their own or do i take something?Crash to low with these symptoms an digestive issues.Does the body re adjust itself?

**Chauffeur** · 02-28-2015, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by falcon954

how long or does your hormones sort things out on their own or do i take something?Crash to low with these symptoms an digestive issues.Does the body re adjust itself?

Yes, your estradiol value will bounce back once the Adex has worked its way out of ya.

If you could provide some information about your TRT protocol and post some bloodwork that would be helpful for us to figure out how much Adex you may need...if any at all.

**JRFitness01** · 02-28-2015, 10:37 PM

I'm prone to gyno so I take 1mg a day to help prevent and revers the little knots I mean they aren't noticeable I can feel the little knots under my nips

**JRFitness01** · 02-28-2015, 10:40 PM

That's interesting I always thought it was quite normal but I hadn't done as much research as I should have because I'm prescribed the 1mg a day but that's good to know

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:47 PM

ESTRONE, SERUM (33 )12-72 PG/ML Final 02

ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM 01/13/2015 (#8168494, Final, 1/8/2015 4:14pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
ESTROGENS, TOTAL (100 ) 40-115 PG/ML Final 02

ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE, SERUM 01/13/2015 (#8168488, Final, 1/8/2015 4:14pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
ESTRADIOL, SENSITIVE (8 ) 3-70 PG/ML Final 02

TESTOSTERONE , SERUM (1039) 348-1197 NG/DL Final 01

**Chauffeur** · 02-28-2015, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by JRFitness01

I'm prone to gyno so I take 1mg a day to help prevent and revers the little knots I mean they aren't noticeable I can feel the little knots under my nips

Holy shit man. That's the highest dose I've ever seen for somebody on TRT...by a long shot.

Where does your E2 sit on a dose like that? I can't imagine that it's much higher than zero.

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:52 PM

i feel the blocker worked an converted more estrogen to max out my test.

**Chauffeur** · 02-28-2015, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by falcon954

ESTRONE, SERUM (33 )12-72 PG/ML Final 02

ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM 01/13/2015 (#8168494, Final, 1/8/2015 4:14pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
ESTROGENS, TOTAL (100 ) 40-115 PG/ML Final 02

ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE, SERUM 01/13/2015 (#8168488, Final, 1/8/2015 4:14pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
ESTRADIOL, SENSITIVE (8 ) 3-70 PG/ML Final 02

TESTOSTERONE, SERUM (1039) 348-1197 NG/DL Final 01

So this is on how much testosterone and how often? And how much Adex and how often?

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:54 PM

Been off it .I have new bloodwork coming in 3 days.Hopefully my estradiol is up.

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:55 PM

150mg every other week.I think should go lower an run 100mgs every week

**falcon954** · 02-28-2015, 10:59 PM

discontinued adex over a month now

**Chauffeur** · 02-28-2015, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by falcon954

Been off it .I have new bloodwork coming in 3 days.Hopefully my estradiol is up.

Originally Posted by falcon954

150mg every other week.I think should go lower an run 100mgs every week

Originally Posted by falcon954

discontinued adex over a month now

That protocol is a mess man, seriously.

Why did your doctor put you on Adex in the first place? How high was your E2 and how many days after your last injection were the labs drawn?

**falcon954** · 03-01-2015, 09:34 AM

My doc had seen it creeping up over the last year.Last blood draw to put me on was late summer,readings maxed on estradiol.

**Beethoven** · 03-01-2015, 10:22 AM

If you're on 150 mg every other week that's 75 mg a week. You should not need Anastrozole at all let alone the dosage he was giving you. I think you should be looking for another Dr. It's no wonder you crashed you E2. Guys on cycle don't even dose that high. The hcg makes my E2 go up and I only take .5 mg a week. If I didn't take hcg I wouldn't even need Adex.

**falcon954** · 03-01-2015, 10:47 AM

No Hcg here.I have never been on hcg my whole time on TRT.Iam looking for new doc for sure.Again why over a year was it climbing to max?

**falcon954** · 03-01-2015, 10:48 AM

Or why was my estradiol climbing slowly over a year?I probably should have lowered my dosage at that point.Iam not a doctor but just thinking out loud.

**kelkel** · 03-01-2015, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by JRFitness01

That's interesting I always thought it was quite normal but I hadn't done as much research as I should have because I'm prescribed the 1mg a day but that's good to know

Normal if you have breast cancer...

**Beethoven** · 03-01-2015, 12:08 PM

I don't know . You're dosage isn't that high. If you are overweight you may aromatise more, you did say you are dosing testosterone cypionate at 150 mg every other week?

**falcon954** · 03-01-2015, 12:13 PM

Does this look like iam fat?

**Beethoven** · 03-01-2015, 12:20 PM

Find another Dr that knows hormones and you'll see a big difference .

**OingoBoingo** · 03-01-2015, 09:50 PM

Have to agree that you're not getting the best medical care. It would be good for you to find a doctor who not only understands Testosterone and Anastrozole, but also hCG . They're out there, and you just have to find them.

If you cut your dose in half and inject weekly, not only will your Testosterone levels be more stable, the lower Testosterone spike after injecting should cause less of an E2 spike.

Injecting twice weekly or even daily should reduce spikes even more so.

Anastrazole does a good job lowering E2, and a little goes a long way. I take a 1mg tablet, and use a pill cutter to cut it into four 0.25mg pieces. Using my high E2 symptoms to determine how often to take Anastrozole, when I first started TRT I was taking 0.25mg Anastrozole about every eight days. Over time (and supplementing with Zinc) my frequency dropped to about every 12 days.

There are lots of E2 threads on the forum. Have a look around, and you'll learn a lot!

**falcon954** · 03-05-2015, 08:35 PM

Just got a new doctor here in phoenix an will start hcg soon.Yayyyyyyyyyyyy.

**falcon954** · 03-06-2015, 06:19 PM

Well just got my bloodwork back and its not good.Estrogen 40-115 mine is 203.
203............................................... .....WTF?

**Chauffeur** · 03-07-2015, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by falcon954

Well just got my bloodwork back and its not good.Estrogen 40-115 mine is 203.
203............................................... .....WTF?

Total estrogen is somewhat of a meaningless test for men on TRT. Estradiol (E2) is the form of estrogen that we care about...and can easily treat if it's too high.

Talk to your doctor about having your estradiol tested instead. Preferably via the sensitive assay, as its designed to accurately measure the low levels of the hormone that are found in men.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-07-2015, 02:00 AM

^^^^^ What he said!

**falcon954** · 03-07-2015, 12:36 PM

ESTROGEN, TOTAL, SERUM 03/05/2015 (#8507534, Final, 2/24/2015 4:08pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
ESTROGENS, TOTAL (203)............................... 40-115 PG/ML High Final 02
RESULT NOTE FASTING NO

ESTRADIOL, ULTRASENSITIVE, SERUM 03/05/2015 (#8507532, Final, 2/24/2015 4:08pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
ESTRADIOL, SENSITIVE (51.2).......................................... 8.0-35.0 PG/ML High Final 02

ESTROGEN FRACTION PANEL 03/05/2015 (#8507531, Final, 2/24/2015 4:08pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
ESTRONE, SERUM (85 ....................) 12-72 PG/ML High Final 02

AGE MALE FEMALE
0 - 5 YEARS 18 - 53 19 - 46
6 - 7 YEARS 17 - 48 17 - 44
8 - 9 YEARS 20 - 54 31 - 70
10 - 11 YEARS 21 - 49 28 - 68
12 - 14 YEARS 17 - 44 57 - 140
ADULT 12 - 72 SEE BELOW
FEMALE: FOLLICULAR PHASE 37 - 138
MID-CYCLE 60 - 229
LUTEAL PHASE 50 - 114
POST MENOPAUSAL 14 - 103

ESTRADIOL 46.4 7.6-42.6 PG/ML High Final 01

ROCHE ECLIA METHODOLOGY

RESULT NOTE FASTING NO

METHODOLOGY: LIQUID CHROMATOGRAPHY TANDEM MASS SPECTROMETRY(LC/MS/MS)

RESULT NOTE FASTING NO

TESTOSTERONE , TOTAL, SERUM 03/05/2015 (#8507530, Final, 2/24/2015 4:08pm)
Report Result Ref. Range Units Status Lab
TESTOSTERONE, SERUM (984)............................................. ... 348-1197 NG/DL Final 01
COMMENT: TESTM Final 01

ADULT MALE REFERENCE INTERVAL IS BASED ON A POPULATION OF LEAN MALES
UP TO 40 YEARS OLD.

RESULT NOTE FASTING NO

Blood tests from this week.

**sparverius** · 03-07-2015, 05:25 PM

That would be way too much E2 for me. But the important thing is how you feel. Too low or too high can cause emotional, libido and erection problems.

**lovbyts** · 03-08-2015, 03:18 AM

I know before you were using 150mg every 2 weeks and thinking about going to 100mg week of test. What did you decide to go with? If you are taking 100mg weekly it may be to much for you.

Are you using HCG now? That is known to also have an effect on E2 but has more benefits than not so it's always recommended to use an AI but not 1mg a day like you were on before. .25mg should work nicely but of course you wont know until you get blood work again.

**falcon954** · 03-08-2015, 08:02 AM

New doc iam guessing is putting me on hcg ,50-100 mg a week an a small amount of arimedex.

**2Sox** · 03-08-2015, 10:55 AM

Good that you found another doctor. And lots of good advice above.

According to how you look and also your age, I'd say you can very definitely get you E2 under control. I'd suggest you consider dosing both your T and your hCG at least twice a week. Perhaps at 40mg T, 2x/week and hCG at 250iu 2x/week - to begin. You may also want to consider doing both subcutaneously. All this would help to keep E2 down.

By the way, anastrozole/Adex is not the only medication out there. I suggest you look into exemestane/Aromasin . MUCH gentler and controls E2 just as well without the side effects of Adex. I took both and much prefer exemestane. I only take 1/2 pill/week (12.5mg).

Many men here eventually find that after awhile and after adjusting their protocol, they no longer need an AI. Take a deep breath and be patient, and you'll see it will work out.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-09-2015, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

By the way, anastrozole/Adex is not the only medication out there. I suggest you look into exemestane/Aromasin. MUCH gentler and controls E2 just as well without the side effects of Adex.

The claim of less side effects with Exemestane than Anastrozole can not be supported by the studies I have read.

I have read about three clinical trials for Anastrozole (each with over 3,000 participants followed for almost 60 months) and one clinical trial for Exemestane (just over 1,000 participants followed for a shorter time), and found that the types of side effects and percentage reported were striking similar. However, if we accept the idea that lower doses might cause fewer side effects, and consider that the clinical trials used roughly 14 times the dose of Exemestane than we might use for TRT purposes, and a whopping 28 times the dose of Arimidex , it's easy to deduce that considering the doses we use for TRT one is twice as likely to experience side effects using Exemestane.

What we really need is an independent study (not paid for by either drug manufacturer) comparing Anastrozole and Exemestane head to head.

We have just that in a double-blind phase III study with 7,576 participants followed for five years that found that although Exemestane was just as effective as Anastrozole, Exemestane was associated with more cases of acne than with Anastrozole, and with more cases of elevated levels of liver enzymes and bilirubin. It's important to note that like the clinical trials mentioned above, doses used in this study was also 14 times the Exemestane one might take for TRT purposes, and 28 times the Anastrozole.

To illustrate my comment above about the list of side effects being strikingly similar: In the double-blind study with 7,576 participants, there were 3,761 side effects attributed to the use of Exemestane, and 3,759 side effects attributed to Anastrozole. Strikingly similar indeed. Then again, if we assume that sids effects would be less with lower doses, and consider the doses used in this study was 14 times the Exemestane one might take for TRT purposes, and 28 times the Anastrozole, it is quite easy to see that there would be considerably less side effects with Anastrozole.

Not all drugs work for all people, so it's good to have a choice. If Anastrozole doesn't work, or one is suffering from side effects, try something else. There are choices out there.