Does Aromasin stunt growth?

[bassmasterzac]

I understand that it is a steroid , and I also understand that estrogen is what fuses growth plates. Theoretically, wouldn't Aromasin be beneficial for growth since it works two ways? Or would it cause negative feed back loops if used too long?

[lovbyts]

No aromasin is not a steroid and neither is estrogen.

Its only benificial to growth by stopping excess testosterone to convert into estrogen.

Read some of the sticky notes at the top.

[bassmasterzac]

No aromasin is not a steroid and neither is estrogen.

Its only benificial to growth by stopping excess testosterone to convert into estrogen.

Read some of the sticky notes at the top.

Oh, I read it was a "steroidal ai" must have been a bad source.

When I say growth, I mean height (I think you're referring to muscle growth) and will do thanks man

[lovbyts]

No I meant growth plates also.

[Simon1972]

I understand that it is a steroid, and I also understand that estrogen is what fuses growth plates. Theoretically, wouldn't Aromasin be beneficial for growth since it works two ways? Or would it cause negative feed back loops if used too long?

Aromatase Inhibitors to Augment Height: Continued Caution and Study Required
This study says it may help in extending the growth period during puberty, never heard of it before, but then again never looked for it, if you are a teen I would steer clear, just because of the lack of knowledge. How old are you?

[Low Testosterone]

You're right in that it is a steroidal AI but that's not the same as saying it's an anabolic steroid . There are hundreds of classes of steroids on earth, anabolic androgenic is merely one class.

As for the original question, I don't see how this would apply to a fully grown adult.

[lovbyts]

100s of classes of steroids ? Not according to the media.

[Low Testosterone]

100s of classes of steroids ? Not according to the media.

Are you talking about the same media that guaranteed us the new health care system was golden and that the idea of a caliphate was laughable at best? If so, if that's the brilliant media you're referring to then I stand corrected

[lovbyts]

Are you talking about the same media that guaranteed us the new health care system was golden and that the idea of a caliphate was laughable at best? If so, if that's the brilliant media you're referring to then I stand corrected

Thats the one. The one that thinks our supreme leader lays golden eggs.

[Beethoven]

Thats the one. The one that thinks our supreme leader lays golden eggs.

Um, not exactly golden, more like rotten.

[2Sox]

What was the question again??

[bassmasterzac]

Alright, I'm 20 years old and I'm going to get my growth plates checked. My projected height was 5'11 and I'm far from that, so I either stunted my growth, or I'm going to have a very late one. I'm also the shortest guy on either side of the family (even considering that my mom's side is Italian). My dad and his brothers all break 6' easy, I think my dad is 6'2. My grandpa is 5'10.

I didn't mean for it to be an anabolic , as much as I would love to run a cycle, I'd rather wait until at LEAST age 25 and until I max my natty potential first. I'm not interested in using it for muscle gain, but for height.

I've read a decent amount of research on stane and I was convinced it would be a much better option then say adex to take long-term (6-12m) but then I read somewhere that it was a "steroidal" ai, so I automatically thought it could potentially stunt growth. I tried and tried to find if it did or not, but to no avail. Technically, I would assume that it doesn't since it lowers estrogen, SHBG, and raises IGF-1 and free/total test levels. If anything, it sounds like a dream to run, though I am aware of the infamous estrogen crash.

I also understand that it is estrogen that fuses the growth plates and I wish I knew that before I cycled clomid. I only did it for 30 days and I dropped it shortly after I found out it could potentially cause harm. Do you think that would close my growth plates? It was 50mg ED.

I'm also running pregnenolone (I just started today to try it out), can that stunt my growth? I know it can turn into estrogen, but if I were taking an ai natural or not, it shouldn't be too problematic at low doses right?

[Simon1972]

a few things,
1. you used clomid without reserching it.
2. you are now using pregnenolone without first reserching it...

the horse has bolted and you seem like a shoot first ask questions later kind of kid,
stop taking sh!t and expect the forum to dig you out of a hole as a matter of urgency and take some responsibility for your life. You seem like a smart kid- but you are over anxious for christ sake you started taking pregnenolone without doing your homework.

its like you know the answer but are hoping for a different/fake one to suit your position.

stop taking prenenolone, be honest about what you did in the past, and start researching- took me years before i did anything.

hope will not help, we need facts and for you to stop playing games with your body.

[bassmasterzac]

Well said. I'll be sure to do more research and stop taking preg until I do. I also don't plan on taking clomid again.

So, do you think 1 month of clomid would have closed my growth plates? I've read half the studies say that it doesn't stunt growth, and the other half say it does. In theory it makes sense that it could potentially stunt growth, but isn't the clomid's estrogen a very weak form?

[Simon1972]

i dont know, clomid stops estrogen binding with the estrogen receptors but doesnt stop estrogen being produced, so you may have increased the amount of estrogen in your body- that may have fused your plates. At your age its probably too late either way.

You needed an aromatase inhibitor, (exemestane, femara) Prevents estrogen production
instead you used a serm. ( doesnt stop estrogen production- instead prevents estrogen attaching itself to receptors.

the study i posted above only mentions AI's

different functions my friend

[bassmasterzac]

i dont know, clomid stops estrogen binding with the estrogen receptors but doesnt stop estrogen being produced, so you may have increased the amount of estrogen in your body- that may have fused your plates. At your age its probably too late either way.

You needed an aromatase inhibitor, (exemestane, femara) Prevents estrogen production
instead you used a serm. ( doesnt stop estrogen production- instead prevents estrogen attaching itself to receptors.

the study i posted above only mentions AI's

different functions my friend

Yeah, unfortunately I just found a post on meso with bloodwork and the dudes estradiol doubled (from 27).

Well, shit, how unlikely is it that they aren't fused? I'm barely taller than my mom... and she is short. I never got a second growth spurt, I've been the same height since middle school. Thing is, I was always ahead of my age in puberty, but never did I succeed in height, I was always on the short end.

I've read so many stories where guys grow taller than their parents or at LEAST close to their dad's height, but my dad is 8-9 inches taller than I am. I've also heard of plenty of stories of people growing past age 20, in more rare occasions even over 5 inches worth of a growth spurt.

All the research I've done and I still can't figure out a reason why I haven't grown . I can deal with being 5'6, but I feel like I'm being robbed since my projected height was 5'11 and I'm nowhere near my pops. And lets be honest here, who the hell would want to be 5'6 if they had the choice? It does have its perks, though.

And yeah, I shouldn't have used clomid, but it DID help me a lot and my test levels did show up very low. I know I should have done more research before I went on it, but the urologist could have at least warned me, instead he tried to push TRT on me (didn't warn me on that either) and told me clomid will shrink my boys and make me infertile, instead.

Right. I do know that AI's can prolong growth by keeping the plates open longer, that's why I want to run exemestane. I just couldn't find anywhere IF it could potentially stunt growth instead since it works differently than non-suicidals.

I'm currently running liquid stane at 25mg, but will taper down to 12.5mg very soon, maybe even 6-8mg. I don't know if it's bunk or not, I do get some bad hot flushes after taking it which I don't mind and I've noticed an increase in appetite which I haven't felt an appetite in ages.

[Simon1972]

how long have you been running liquid stane? what other drugs are you taking? its time you gave us a quick rundown of what you took, age you took it and what you are taking now in full detail- dont leave anything out and dont try hiding anything. you seem to be taking a new drug with every post.

[bassmasterzac]

Alright, will do.

Durgs:

- When I was a kid, I was taking ADHD stimulants - I was diagnosed at age 7 or 8. I tried basically every single one but only took them for a year or two as I would never eat on them.

- Tobacco since late age 16, 1 can a day, vaped 36mg, and smoked a few packs here and there.

- Age 17 took benadryl every night. Maybe 4-6 months. Dosed 150-175mg.

- Halfway through my senior year (17-18) I was prescribed my medication again, Vyvanse 30mg.

- I started drinking regularly at age 17, almost every day after graduation (18), I would also wake up and binge at least once a week. At age 19 I started significantly lowering my consumption because I wanted to maximize my gains. I've been sober now for 6-8 months aside from the occasional drinking such as New Years.

- Smoked bud occasionally at age 17, by graduation (18) I smoked fairly often, but it was light use. I never bought any, though, my friends just smoked me out, so I never binged on that. Have not smoked in 6-8 months other than occasional use.

- Age 19 was prescribed my ADHD medication again. I took a little over a months worth of adderall spread out (bad idea I found out). I did not exceed my prescribed dose, except once or twice. I also would cut them in half more often than not.

- Age 19 took l-trytophan for a month (along with random vitamins like magnesium)

- Age 20 took flonaise 4 sprays on and off for about 3 months (it's a corticosteroid so I added it)

- Age 20 >1 month ago took clomiphene 100mg loading for first two days, 50mg ED for a total of 30 days.

- Age 20 4 days ago started taking liquid stane. Initial dose was 12.5mg, now have bumped up to 25mg.

- Age 20 2 days ago took pregnenolone 25mg sublingual and 50mg sublingual 2nd day (have now stopped preg)


My current stack:
Liquid Stane - 25mg ed with fatty meal
Fish oil - 1.8g ed
Borage oil - 1g ed
Vitamin D - 15,000 iu ed (tapering down eventually) (have blood work for vitamin D)
Zinc gluconate - 25-50mg before bed ed (weak bio availability)
Orange Triad MV - 3 pills ed (half dose)
Melatonin - .5mg at night ed (guess I should add I used to take it often at 5-15mg doses for about half a year age 19)

That's all that I'm currently taking other than snuff tobacco (1 can every 2-4 days) which I will be quitting very soon to pursue a firefighter career.

[Simon1972]

current stack:
Liquid Stane - 25mg ed with fatty meal ( cut down to 12.5 EOD for 3 months max)
Fish oil - 1.8g ed ( keep taking)
Borage oil - 1g ed ( keep taking)
Vitamin D - 15,000 iu ed (tapering down eventually) (have blood work for vitamin D) ( too high take 5000 IU daily- your current usage is toxic)
Zinc gluconate - 25-50mg before bed ed (weak bio availability) (keep taking )
Orange Triad MV - 3 pills ed (half dose) ( expensive multivitamin- keep taking or find cheaper)
Melatonin - .5mg at night ed (guess I should add I used to take it often at 5-15mg doses for about half a year age 19) ( cut this out completely- learn to sleep by turning off all light and computer screens 4 hrs before bedtime 9-10pm)

Quit the following immediately: Tobacco, flonaise, marjuana, vynase.

Vynase shuts down testosterone production and delays puberty- this could be your biggest issue right there- also you are treating your body like you hate it, stop dumping crap into it , every chemical has a reaction.

marjuana efffects testosterone.

time to clean up your act and clean your body- eat a decent diet and cut out sugar completely.

if there are any other drugs you have ommitted- stop taking them also.

be a man, and stop waiting for drugs to fill the void when you abandoned using willpower.

after genetics, your height is attributable to how well you treat your body- if its too late- bad luck, do the best with what you now have.

[OingoBoingo]

current stack:
Vitamin D - 15,000 iu ed (tapering down eventually) (have blood work for vitamin D) ( too high take 5000 IU daily- your current usage is toxic)

It is true that doses above 10,000IU daily have higher occurrences of higher Calcium in the blood or urine, but I haven't heard these levels characterized as "toxic."

Dr. Bruce Hollis says, “There is no sense to taking less than 10,000IU of Vitamin D a day.” I don't know if I would take more than that, but took 10,000IU daily for 6 months and had no problems.

If you would like to learn more, check out YouTube: Results of a Prostate Cancer/Vitamin D Trial: Effectiveness Safety Recommendations - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrU1yrmNIqc

Lots of good Vitamin D information on YouTube!

[kelkel]

Vynase shuts down testosterone production and delays puberty

Simon do you have any solid studies on this topic? Very interested in it but I've never read anything I've considered substantial. I'm familiar with the mechanism by which amphetamines can inhibit test production but never a solid link to vyvanse. Appreciate anything you can give. PM if you like.

[OingoBoingo]

I should add that acute hypercalimica starts off at a minimum of 46,000IU per day taken for weeks - Dr Reinhold Vieth - Treatment & Toxicity -- Benefits and dangers of supplementing with Vitamin D. Dr Reinhold Vieth - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIDWA9-cGdY

[bassmasterzac]

I did plan to cut down within a week or two to 12.5mg at the most. I just flipped shit when I found out that clomid could fuse my plates, so I tried to treat that ASAP. Can you tell me why you think 12.5mg for 3 months maximum? I did notice that the study you posted, AI's were administered for up to a year. They also used dosages of 25-50mg ed.

Also, my bad. I don't think I was specific enough. I am not currently taking any amps, flonaise, and I quit smoking bud for good, will be quitting tobacco in 2 weeks.

I took vyvanse for a total of a few months tops. It is a d-amp, so it is essentially adderall (the one proven to stunt/delay growth), but with an enzyme that prevents breakdown. I'm glad you mentioned that, though. I was thinking about starting my amps again because they help me a lot, but now you made my decision easy.

Anyways, real solid advice man. I needed a little, cold splash of reality. I'm trying to get my head back in the game. I appreciate it.

Oingo, if higher doses of vitamin D increase calcium, wouldn't that be beneficial for growth? I do eat a lot of cholestrol (like eggs) and drink a lot of milk. If not, I'll drop my dosage down to 10k.

I'd like to know what you guys think.

[OingoBoingo]

Get your Vitamin D checked. Once Vitamin D levels hit 125 nmol/L, Calcium levels flatline. Hypercalcemia starts with Vitamin D levels of around 225/250 nmol/L.

My reason for the post above was to tell you that you can easily go above 10,000IU of D3 daily for reasonable long periods of time without fear of Hypercalcemia.

Is there a reason for thinking you might have low Calcium?

If you are interested in optimum nutrition, I urge you to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVQmPVBjubw

In the lecture, Dr. Bruce Ames shows a list of essential nutrients. Copy the list, and spend some time comparing how your diet and multi-vitamin stacks up.

On the bodybuilding forums there are a lot of Orange Triad fanboys that like to argue that Orange Triad is better than Animal Pak. Orange Triad isn't available in Bangkok (AFAIK) so I've never compared the two. Animal Pak is indeed available here, and I've found that it compares well with Dr. Ames' list; some simple supplementation is all it takes to close the deal.

It's important to understand that not everything on Dr. Ames' list needs to be supplemented; for example, Vitamin K - DON'T TAKE VITAMIN K! EAT MORE GREEN LEAFY STUFF!!

I try to get most of my nutrients from diet, but for the hard to find stuff a good multi-vitamin is killer.

[Simon1972]

Simon do you have any solid studies on this topic? Very interested in it but I've never read anything I've considered substantial. I'm familiar with the mechanism by which amphetamines can inhibit test production but never a solid link to vyvanse. Appreciate anything you can give. PM if you like.

No solid studies, mostly anecdotal (on forum posts i looked up (testosterone +vynase), but i assume the wont be any studies forthcoming . - i drew a link to amphetamine and testosterone, i would expect the link would stand with this drug also..wouldnt it?

Could Vyvanse cause Blood testosterone decreased - eHealthMe.com

[bassmasterzac]

Okay, good to know. I'll continue to take 15k and taper down in a couple months to 10k.

Well, I didn't actually think I had low calcium levels until you mentioned it. I just looked up the symptoms and it doesn't seem too crazy to think that. Then again, I have strong, but small bones and I have done GOMAD on a couple occasions. I'm wondering if this is the cause of my unknown muscle twitching that I experience everywhere on a constant basis.

I'm watching it right now.

Yeah, that's where I got the idea to use OT. I usually use Opti-men, but OT does come with joint support and digestion which I needed, and it also has better quality vitamins (I don't know if compared to AP). AP is mad expensive.

That's funny because I was just thinking about supplementing K2, I'll be sure to up the veggies.

Thanks man.


Simon, why did you suggest capping stane out at 3 months? Does it eventually start affecting lipid profiles?

[OingoBoingo]

Alright, I'm 20 years old and I'm going to get my growth plates checked. My projected height was 5'11 and I'm far from that, so I either stunted my growth, or I'm going to have a very late one. I'm also the shortest guy on either side of the family (even considering that my mom's side is Italian). My dad and his brothers all break 6' easy, I think my dad is 6'2. My grandpa is 5'10.

I'm also running pregnenolone...

Get your Vitamin D levels checked as low levels can cause many problems including stunted growth.

Quit experimenting with stuff. You run the risk of causing other problems at your age that you really don't want.

[kelkel]

No solid studies, mostly anecdotal (on forum posts i looked up (testosterone +vynase), but i assume the wont be any studies forthcoming . - i drew a link to amphetamine and testosterone, i would expect the link would stand with this drug also..wouldnt it?

Could Vyvanse cause Blood testosterone decreased - eHealthMe.com

Not sure it would stand. I want to hope "not" as the make-up of individual drugs, even of the same sub-type do differ, and doc's dole this out quickly. I did happen to see that study and discounted it due to the low volume of affected participants. Just too many variables in life to pin point it directly to Vyvanse in that study, imho.

Interesting stuff Simon. If you run across more let me know please. I'm very interested as my son was on it for a short period of time.

[lovbyts]

Im glad I didnt start using Vyvance or any ADD/ADHD meds until I was in my mid 40s. I was also already on HRT so I should be safe.