Vitamin D or Hrt

**Simon1972** · 06-06-2015, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by ruffcute

Shit, that was what I suspected. Do you think I should up my dose slightly or keep it low to show him my results. I have to see him in 4 weeks and will be doing bloods again just before that so in about 3.5 weeks.

This guy is from an anti aging clinic. He's the cautious type, which wasn't so bad before. Do you think I should just take the dose and show him the numbers in a few weeks?

take the dose- dont adjust it- when you see him tell him you feel terrible - see if you can google dr crislers protocol
http://www.*************.com/publications.html
- print it out and discuss it with him. tell him you would like your levels at the high normal levels- if he cant help find another anto aging dr- typically they will do what you ask- this one doesnt seem to know what he is doing-

one question- can you confirm you havent made a mistake? 50 mg a week? or is it twice a week?

**ruffcute** · 06-06-2015, 11:47 AM

Thanks I will do that. I can confirm that it's 50mg per week, it's also written on the prescription label for the test cyp. That's also what he told me. I hope he ups it, I don't want to be feeling shitter than I already do.

I also picked up some insulin syringes for supplies, they are the ones that the needle doesn't come off. Can I use those to draw and inject with the same one? I don't want the needle blunt so thought I'd ask. I have others anyway. The insulin is a 30g needle.

**Simon1972** · 06-06-2015, 11:35 PM

30g its what i use at the moment, it might be slow to fill and inject.

im going to go 29g soon to spped up flow- best to fill the vial with the same amount of air as you take out. eg 0.5ml of air and draw out 0.5ml of oil. i use the same syring for draw and inject . it might sting with that amount of oil- you may have to spread it over two injection sites.

i would ask your dr for a 250mg/ml or 200mg/ml test cypionate alternative testosterone to your current 100mg/ml.

you need to inject alot of oil to get your dose and i dont thinks it neccesary.

find a comfy couch and inject away

**lovbyts** · 06-07-2015, 12:45 AM

Wow, surprising a doc from an anti aging clinic would give you that low of a dose but as Simon says, give it a try and let him know how you feel. If he does not work out then maybe try a fertility doctor. I had good luck with the one I visited. He was up to speed on TRT, HCG and estrogen.

**ruffcute** · 06-18-2015, 11:22 AM

Thanks guys, I took your advice and injected with a 29g needle.
A quick update on things. I took my first shot on Saturday the 6th June, I was super nervous but after your guys advice it helped and I injected that night. I feel better already, little more energy, better mood for sure and more sexual desire. I do feel it tapering off before the next shot and kind of get a little more tired.

I have to adjust the day I inject a little as I have my follow up with my doctor in the beginning of July, and have to get blood work done for him so that the results are with him before the appointment.

What day in the 7 day period between injections should I get my bloods done? The doctor said around middle would be good.

What I'm planning on is this:
1st shot - Saturday 6 June - taken
2nd shot - Friday 12 June - taken
3rd shot - Thursday 18 June - will take today
4th shot - Thursday 25 June
Bloodwork Monday 29 June
Appointment with doc a few days later.

If I take my shot on Thursday 29 and then get my bloods done the Monday after, so 4 days later. Would that be good to show my levels, or is it too early and I should wait 5 days. I still have time to adjust my shots to earlier days, but I cant change the day I have my bloods or my appointment.

Im also hoping that me moving my days up by a day isn't going to increase my levels too much in my blood so that the doctor thinks Im on the correct dose. Im hoping that as I need to take it so frequently the effects of me moving the days forward by 1 in the first few weeks shouldn't show in the results.

**bullshark99** · 06-21-2015, 04:28 PM

Short version here, do yourself a favor and SKIP the shot all together on the 29th and get your bloods done the following Monday. 50mgs per week will prob do you more harm than good, you are shutting off your natty and at that ridiculous low dose you may find yourself lower than you already are.
I wouldn't risk the possibility this Dr thinks you are in normal range if you pin on the 29th.

**Simon1972** · 06-22-2015, 04:42 PM

I'd stick with the 25th.

I would also take 40 mg instead of the 50mg . So you will ensure a low reading..
Alternatively take 50mg on the 24th and get bloods on the 29th...you need to show low so he will prescribe adequately. Unfortunately he seems too cautious, so you may have to fudge it a little.

At your appointment tell him you feel very lethargic right before your next needle, he may take that info along with low test results and prescribe an increase in the testosterone .

**ruffcute** · 06-29-2015, 10:43 AM

Thanks guys, sorry for the delayed reply, I had a few other things on my mind recently and wasn't able to get back to you sooner.

I took the shot on 25th and will delay the bloods until tomorrow morning, hoping the delay will help fudge it as you mentioned Simon. How many days before the bloods should I tell the doc I took the shot, 3? instead of the actual 5.

What was on my mind was I was told last week by my regular doctor that one of the tests that I did - prescribed by the endo who suspected Vitamin D deficiency, was a test for Celiac's disease. They tested my Tissue Transglutaminase Antibody IgG and it was really high. They believe I have Celiac's disease, I even got them to redo the bloodwork just incase and it was still high. If this is true this is a big change for me.

I was very tired before but a few months ago I found that I was taking naps and falling asleep everywhere and it came from my inability to sleep properly due to my enlarged tonsils that had become even more enlarged recently (which Im having removed in a few months) they caused me sleep apnea and I have to use a machine until I have them removed. Now all of a sudden this. Firstly I have no clue how that's possible, as I had no symptoms - no vomiting, diarrhea or constipation, nothing that really explains why I would have this without any symptoms. The only reason they tested me for this was because of my sleepiness and low vitamin D.

Just thought Id mention this, not sure or expecting you guys to know much about this, but its one bitch to now live with. They have to put a scope in my intestine and take a biopsy to be sure if I have it but with the blood tests they have they say they are 99% sure I do. If you guys can shed any light on this it would be a god send. But again this isn't the forum for it so please ignore as this may be totally unrelated to the HRT, but just incase it was, was why I put it down.

**Arete** · 07-01-2015, 08:52 PM

This is my first post just getting into finding out about TRT since I have very low test at 42 from my last blood work. I have been eating a lower carb higher fat diet and studying a lot on how to naturally increase test levels primarily through diet. This is how I have come to know about Celiac and am responding.

Eliminate grains from your diet primarily those containing gluten. This would be wheat, barley, oats and the such. Corn is a different gluten but eliminate it as well. Rice can still be consumed for your carb needs but possibly plan to eliminate it as well. Do this for a couple of week minimum and I would also suggest eliminating all processed oils(vegetable, corn and seeds oils) and use only saturated or mono like grass fed butter, coconut and avocado. The grass fed butter will help to heal the gut wall for celiac. Look up Weston a price and or paleo with Celiac and the digest the info just like we are doing here with Anabolic 's, fitness and over all well being. I also use Marks daily Apple as a resource. Pay attention and re introduce something like bread and see how your gut feels after being off it for a couple weeks. If you have celiac it will upset and bloat your stomach.

On vitamin D my HRT doc wants a level of 70. I have been taking 10000 IU daily for 6 months and was still at 62. I read that it should not be taken with magnesium if you use that as a supplement. It is fat soluble so it should be taken with some sort of fat. I usually have mine with breakfast and dinner and the kind I get from Amazon uses either MCT oil or olive oil since SOY can also be bad for gut problems. From what I have read you really can't over do vitamin D until 40000 IU. Also need some Vitamin K which is in green veges. Life Extension A-D with kelp is a good one I found.

Hope this gives you a little insight before you let doctors do something to extreme. Food heals and rebuilds us just have to find out which ones we may need to eliminate or add.

**ruffcute** · 07-03-2015, 12:06 PM

Thanks for the useful advise Arete.

I have already changed most of my diet to gluten free. Iam keeping some gluten in there they need me to be eating it for them to go in and do the scope and biopsy. But I'm eating a lot healthier now.

Back to my HRT, I met with my doctor and he looked at my levels from the last blood test, he said my Testosterone was 7 (on a range from 2-20, I have to confirm need to check the range thats written) and that I need to increase my dose. He said his ideal would be for me to get to 8-12.

So to get the increased number he asked me to increase the dose to 60mg a week. I told him I wanted to split the dose so I had less up and downs and also increase it a little more to 40mg each shot. So 80mg a week. I told him I would rather cut back down the dose than have to slowly increase, if it was too high. He was ok with it and I took my first 40mg shot yesterday.

I hope this will be a better dose for me, its an increase of 30mg overall a week. What do you guys think. Is it acceptable?

**bullshark99** · 07-04-2015, 05:51 AM

My guess is that will get you a little higher, in range but on the lower end. Most/Many of use strive to be in the top quartile. As I posted to you #46, I really would of skipped that last shot on the 25th, there would be no discussion rt now.
BTW, still think you can do better with a different physician.

**ruffcute** · 07-04-2015, 12:04 PM

I know, but I didn't know if it was going to be too obvious if I had just skipped the shot altogether. I think the doctor I'm with is just overly cautious, but when I said I want to increase it over what he said, he didn't really stop me he just cited caution. I could fudge the next blood a little by taking a smaller dose, which is going to be in a month's time.

I called the Hoffman centre, that guy wanted to see me for $750 for the first consultation and then if I needed it, yes if, he would then put me on a plan for a yearly cost of $3000-$5000. As you can Imagine, I asked what he was planning on spending the money on. Apparently the current testing isn't great. So he takes blood, urine and saliva tests, and they cost a lot apparently lol. And then apart from that I would just see him now and then for follow up. What a crook.

That's what made me hesitant to change doctor right now, as he's doing his job kinda ok so far and I'm getting it increased to levels that it needs to be, another month won't kill me in the scope of things. My next bloods are in a month. If he hadn't increased it just now that would have been different.

**ruffcute** · 09-18-2015, 04:13 PM

Thought I would update this thread as I had all my stats on here already.

I spoke to my doctor and I have been on 100mg of test cyp per week now for about 2 months. I split these and inject 50mg twice a week. This dose seems to work well for me and I feel all the benefits. The doc also gave me a prescription for the stronger test Cyp (200mg/ml), so now I only have to inject 0.25ml every injection.

He recently also just gave me a prescription for Hcg as I had asked for it and let him know that me and my wife will try again for another baby in about 6 months. I wanted to check the dosage with you guys. He has asked for me to inject 1000UI doses twice a week. And from what I remember, he wants me to be on for a month, get off for a month and then again on for a month. But I need to double check that.

Is 1000UI twice a week too high a dose? In the end of the month that would equal to 8000UI. He has given me a prescription for a 10,000UI/10 ml bottle. The bottle cost me $160, so if I'm using 8,000 a month, that would be $160 per month.

Its pretty costly for me as the drug plan I have doesn't cover fertility medication. I also know that the shelf life of hcg is pretty small so its not like I would be able to keep it a long time in the fridge. But if this was $160 over 3 months or something that would be no issue. but $160 every month is a lot, especially when I wanted to keep it up later as well just to make sure my balls don't shrink.

On a side note, what do you guys do for Hcg? How long do you keep it in the fridge and should I look at alternative sources instead of the pharmacy.

**kelkel** · 09-18-2015, 06:09 PM

Take a look at the sticky at the top of this forum re HCG . Regarding the use of HCG in TRT the dose he's suggesting is absolutely not necessary. Search up Dr. Crislers HCG Update paper and get your doc a copy if he's the type that's receptive to it. 250 iu's two or three times per week is plenty. If using a reasonable dosage there's absolutely no reason to come off of it. Zero.

He wrote you the script but insurance won't cover it? Maybe you can ask your doc to write a simple "Letter of Medical Necessity" to your plan administrator. Know that on most HCG Package Inserts it lists "Hypogonadic Hypogonadism" as a use for it. If all that doesn't work I'd use an overseas pharmacy where you'd pay maybe a fifth of that cost. Mix it with 4ml Bact Water and pull back to the 10 on your slin pin for 250 iu's.

Shelf life of HCG is very misunderstood. It will begin to minimally lose potency after a period of time but that's all. It does not suddenly go bad. I'm scripted for mine and use it for 60 + days before I refill. Never an issue.

**2Sox** · 09-23-2015, 05:57 PM

I agree completely with Kel's comments above. I have hCG in my fridge for months and there is no problem. Overseas is the way to go for hCG. A 5000iu vial, with shipping, costs approximately $18. PM me if you'd like to know where I get it.

BTW, I take 700iu/week. Works just fine. hCG forever for any man on TRT.

**ruffcute** · 09-30-2015, 04:39 PM

Much appreciated Kel. I did check out the sticky but only realized what they were talking about when you posted it and I understood what a slin pin was. Now its clear. Meant to post earlier but had my tonsils removed and been in agony. FYI never ever get them removed, the pain is unthinkable.

So I have been taking 250ui's of the hCG twice a week now since you posted and I can feel the nuts kicking into action. I definitely need to speak to my doc and get his shit right. You mentioned that it might lose some potency, so do you think its worth increasing it from 10 on the slin pin to may be 11, for the second month, and 12 for the third month. Just a thought.

How many months have you kept yours in the fridge for 2Sox, just so I have an idea?

**kelkel** · 09-30-2015, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by ruffcute

Much appreciated Kel. I did check out the sticky but only realized what they were talking about when you posted it and I understood what a slin pin was. Now its clear. Meant to post earlier but had my tonsils removed and been in agony. FYI never ever get them removed, the pain is unthinkable.

Tonsils removed as an adult must really suck! I had mine yanked as a kid and can remember taking them home in a plastic container and then into school for show and tell and them burying them in my parents back yard. No shit!

**ruffcute** · 09-30-2015, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Tonsils removed as an adult must really suck! I had mine yanked as a kid and can remember taking them home in a plastic container and then into school for show and tell and them burying them in my parents back yard. No shit!

Oh man I don't know what to tell you. I was on Oxycodone every 4 hours from the day of the surgery. Even at night every 4 hours or you wake up from the pain screaming. And it only just takes the edge of the pain away so you can keep swallowing ice water. I cannot believe the pain that came with this. No eating for a solid week as its too painful and then soups only. I wish that on no one.

**2Sox** · 10-01-2015, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by ruffcute

Even at night every 4 hours or you wake up from the pain screaming. I cannot believe the pain that came with this.

I was five years old and I still remember the pain. And no pain killers were given that I recall.

The medical community usually doesn't go in for this procedure anymore. Why was it necessary for you?

**Far from massive** · 10-01-2015, 05:07 PM

Just to add to the thread,

Low vitamin D will not cause low testosterone ...However it will cause symptoms similar to those seen in cases of low testosterone . So for sure take vitamin D as needed in sufficient quantity to increase your blood levels to normal. I would try a completely different brand just to make sure the one you had taken previously was not bunk.

As to the whole injection deal, while subq works great for many there is no reason to be getting knots in the muscle from injecting test E or C in the amounts used in TRT therapy. I would also suggest switching to a new brand of Test E or C and then simply inject your shots twice per week. If the doc prescribes 100mg per week and your test is 200mg/ml then that means each injection is going to be .25 mls....believe me if the gear is good, then this will be completely pain/lump free if heated to body temp and injected slowly.

Footnotes. Stable blood levels of vitamin D will take many months to be achieved, however if you are taking it sublingually (under the tongue) you should start feeling better in a week or two tops.

Good luck, FFM.

**Simon1972** · 10-01-2015, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by ruffcute

Oh man I don't know what to tell you. I was on Oxycodone every 4 hours from the day of the surgery. Even at night every 4 hours or you wake up from the pain screaming. And it only just takes the edge of the pain away so you can keep swallowing ice water. I cannot believe the pain that came with this. No eating for a solid week as its too painful and then soups only. I wish that on no one.

i had mine taken out last year along with the uvula and skin between both the tonsils 1/4 inch wide to open up my throat,

take ibuprofem- pain was bad but manageable- stay away from oxy- it doesnt do anything- ibuprofen takes inflamation down and makes it managable- i still have 14 tabs of oxy out of 20 prescribed.

i reccomend everyone take out tonsils- as we get older it helps with sleep apnoea and snoring. its not too bad- its just pain. pain is temporary.

**ruffcute** · 10-02-2015, 02:53 PM

Actually that was it, for some reason my tonsils grew back in Feb and stayed large, to a point I felt like I had golf balls in my mouth. They were nearly touching. It made me get sleep apnea and I didn't want to wear that mask everynight to bed. It use to fall off or I use to unconsciously take it off or switch the machine off in my sleep.

Doctor told me to keep away from the ibuprofem for another week incase it thins my blood and makes my throat bleed but the healing is going good so I might just slip one in here and there in a few days to help ease the pain.

Tonsil removal without painkillers must be so much pain. I cant believe they did that before. Im sure childbirth would have hurt less, especially as your adrenaline kicks in and helps the women get through it. Tonsil removal is drawn out pain over weeks.

Back to the TRT, Im still taking my Vit D tablets, so hopefully that is improving. Will try to get it checked next blood test. But something I forgot to mention and ask about was, last time I saw my doctor he mentioned that my Estrogen levels had risen over my range and wanted me to bring them back down. Not sure what I can do to achieve this. He gave me a product called Chrysin, which apparently should help but from what I read up on wiki it said that there is not enough evidence that it does this.

He mentioned last time that he might have to give me the cancer drug that reduces the Estrogen, didn't mention the name or the dose but said he might have to prescribe it next month. Any thoughts on what I can do. Im taking the 0.50mg shots twice a week Subq. Does Subq create more Estrogen by any chance? or should it make no difference.

**kelkel** · 10-02-2015, 05:34 PM

Certain supplements (Dim, Zinc, Copper, etc) can have an effect on E2 levels, but no where near the same as prescribed AI's. Instead of me spouting off read this write up:

Ancillary Reference Guide

**ruffcute** · 10-02-2015, 09:39 PM

Thanks Kel that was an interesting read. So do you think something like Exemestane would be a good fit for me, as it seems to be the mildest, as I'm not on a cycle am using the test for HRT.

Doc was mentioning about the more potent ones last time I was there, he has a trainee and told them that the estrogen blocking drug they have would drop it to 0. So I'm guessing he was talking of the potent ones. Would you happen to know a dose that could be comfortable for me considering I'm on 100mg over a week. The reference guide mentioned doses for cycles based on a much higher test usage.

Seeing doc next week so will hopefully take this info in so he doesn't put me on anything stupid. And also won't blow my wallet away either.

**kelkel** · 10-03-2015, 12:30 PM

It may be. 2Sox loves it. I use adex if needed as I like the half life. Don't let your doc scare you with his talk of dropping your E2 to zero. A well thought out protocol followed with BW will alleviate this worry. Just because adex comes in 1 mg tabs (unless compounded) doesn't mean you take the whole damn thing!
I'd really have to see BW with ranges to give a better opinion. Without it the best advice is to start with the lowest possible dose of whatever you choose and re-test your E2 in about 4 weeks.

**ruffcute** · 10-08-2015, 09:25 AM

Thanks Kel, I will speak to the doc about that today.

On another note there might be something else I need to speak to him about too. I honestly havnt felt any sexual desire in the last few days. I did my regular shot on Monday and did the hCG too, but this is weird.
Could the rising Estrogen be suppressing my drive?

**kelkel** · 10-08-2015, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by ruffcute

Thanks Kel, I will speak to the doc about that today.

On another note there might be something else I need to speak to him about too. I honestly havnt felt any sexual desire in the last few days. I did my regular shot on Monday and did the hCG too, but this is weird.
Could the rising Estrogen be suppressing my drive?

Yes, but don't let that get in your head. There are way to many variables in libido. On top of that, you're human and libido will never stay "perfect" when you factor in life's stresses.

**ruffcute** · 10-08-2015, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Yes, but don't let that get in your head. There are way to many variables in libido. On top of that, you're human and libido will never stay "perfect" when you factor in life's stresses.

Your right. I was working pretty hard over the week.

I saw the doctor and he had checked my estrogen for the bloods I did a few days ago. I was at 143 on a range from 0-160. On the higher side but he said that as I wasn't over that he wouldn't be able to prescribe me the AI for now. I have to see him again in a few months and so will get it rechecked then. Unless you guys think I should order it online if possible and take a low low dose to keep the estrogen in check.

**kelkel** · 10-08-2015, 07:38 PM

I'm assuming it was not a Sensitive Assay?

**ruffcute** · 10-12-2015, 04:42 PM

Shit no it was not, I wasn't sure what that was until I searched for it on the forum. I don't remember it being listed on the form as an option. Or is this something that's usually added in in the additional tests section that's open to the doctor writing things in?

I have a blood test due at the end of this month again so if I can mark it on the form I can get it done.

**kelkel** · 10-12-2015, 05:38 PM

What lab do you use?

**ruffcute** · 10-13-2015, 01:27 PM

Its just the Calgary lab service that does it for me. Through general healthcare. I have attached the form though incase that helps.

**ruffcute** · 10-20-2015, 11:32 PM

I think something might be wrong, the only thing I have changed recently is the introduction of hCG . But my erections have been weaker and desire and libido is way down. No fun with the wife for a while either now as I never feel it. I'm so confused. I will do a sensitive estrogen test in a week. Any ideas if that's what could be it?