Blood work

**ermasta** · 04-16-2015, 07:47 PM

So I got my results back and instead of talking about the white elephant in the room they want to put me on Lipitor 40 cause of my cholesterol. Maybe the doc is more concerned about my heart than my test. I swear I produce cholesterol like a damn tree. I do not eat fatty foods or sweets but im basically screwed because of my family history.

Male 5'7"
167lb
18% body fat...I don't look fat at all but w/e

Lipid panel
Cholesterol total 229 H
HDL 29L
Trigly 166 H
LDL 167 H
Chol/HDLC ratio 7.9 H
NON HDL Cholesterol 200 H

TSH 2.85 0.40-4.50
T4 free 1.0 0.8-1.8
T3 free 3.3 2.3-4.2
Estrogen total serum 172.7 60-190
IGF I LC/MS 216 52-328
DHEA 292 70-495
FSH 2.5 1.6-8.0
LH 3.7 1.5-9.3
Prolactin 18.8 2.0-18.0
Test FR and Total (LC/MS/MS 371 250-1100
Free test 84.2 35.0-155.0
Vitamin D 29L 30-100

Supplements I currently take:
Vitamin D 2000 < started to take it b4 the test
Glucosamine
MSM
Citruline
arginine
lysine
dhea 50mg
omega 3

**ermasta** · 05-01-2015, 08:49 AM

No comments, opinions, auggestions? To be honest I was a bit ticked off when i posted yesterday. I go in for a test count and come out with a cholesterol issue.

I have dropped that 230 to 195 before so i know i can do it again. What got to me is that the test score was not brought up at all, not to mention the prolactin levels...

Oh well lets see what happens.

**kelkel** · 05-01-2015, 10:13 AM

How old are you?
You'll be fine on Lipitor.
Keen an eye on your thyroid. Any TSH over 2 should be looked at. A more modern TSH scale is .3 - 3.0 and you're near the top. If TSH is high and T4 low it can be indicative of hypothyroid which can/will suppress testosterone levels big time. Do some research at Stop the Thyroid Madnessâ„¢ - Hypothyroidism and thyroid mistreatment please. Hypothyroid causes hypogonadism.

Your prolactin is at the top of the scale. Elevated prolactin will suppress testosterone as well. Elevated prolactin is sometimes indicative of a prolactinoma, which is a small microadenoma (tumor) located on your pituitary. I'm not taking that leap and saying that's the case but be aware and speak to your doc about it. Dopamine agonists will bring that down quickly which in turn can elevate T levels.
Total T is low and your FT is in the lower half of the range as well. Fix the above first before you consider T therapy.
Up your D to at least 5K and test it again at your next BW.
Make sure your DHEA is micronized.

If it were me I'd speak to your doc about a more thorough thyroid test for hypothyroidism and also look into your prolactin level. An MRI is the route to rule in/out microadenomas if you and your doctor decide to go that route.

Let me know your thoughts and what you do. Sorry I missed your initial post.

kel

**ermasta** · 05-01-2015, 02:31 PM

Hello Kelkel,

I knew i forgot something..Im 43 years old.

I am going to take your advice and have a convo with the doc about the thyroid levels and prolactin as well.

I think that the doc is just really worry about the cholesterol since it kinda pops up in a big way.

Ill get on the lipitor asap to calm my love ones nerves and chill on the trt.

Also, just changed to a diferent dhea brand..it has good reviews, so lets see.

Thank you so much for helping me!

**kelkel** · 05-01-2015, 08:10 PM

dhea.com (McPherson Brand) is very good and made a big difference for me. It's more expensive which sucks, but worth it.
If your doc's concerned about your cholesterol then request to pull a VAP or NMR Auto Profile. This will break down your LDL particles much further and really give you a good picture of what's going on inside. I use it every time now and it's made a big difference for me in structuring my supplements / diet to achieve my goals.

https://www.lef.org/magazine/2007/5/...e-01?checked=1

**ermasta** · 05-01-2015, 09:41 PM

Yup, I am setting up an appointment with the doc. I am highlighting and writing notes on my test results to make sure I do not forget to ask. I will be asking the doc questions based on your input/advice to see how he feels about it and hopefully formulate a plan of attack in which we both agree on. I thought he had asked for the VAP test but guess not...they did pull 10 of those damn tubes full of blood.

I would post the full BW but I cant seem to be able to copy and paste it here. I just wrote down what I thought was the most important numbers.

Also, I did see your VAP results (congrats)and I am currently following your cholesterol experiment thread. This is one of the reasons I was a bit put-off about taking the Lipitor when I can follow your protocol...I am was waiting on your new results since you had stopped taking the RYR lol...And I am scared that the Lipitor might kill my sex drive (hope I don't get that side).

Thank you so much for your help Kelkel

**kelkel** · 05-02-2015, 07:04 AM

No worries ermasta. Hope it all works out for you.
And yes, I'm a bit anxious about where I'm going to land on the particle density list. I'm just hoping to be able to stay off the RYR as it tastes horrible.

**ermasta** · 06-12-2015, 06:07 PM

So, I just had my visit with the Doctor and conversation went well. It's all about baby steps right....We spoke about my cholesterol and I guess I am stuck since it's a hereditary thing. Just got to keep taking the Med and keep a watch on my liver for any changes while on it.

He is not to concerned about my TSH, He will revisit the issue if I score high on my prolactin levels again.

Also, he recommended an OTC T booster to see if my levels change at my next blood work. If not, then I will be placed on a low dose of hcg .

VAP is in order on my next BW and he ,mentioned that my IGF levels were low.

Damn , I had to really dissect my post because of the site's spam software....sorry , I hope I made sense.

Thanks,
Ermasta

**ermasta** · 12-10-2015, 09:06 AM

Hello again,

So I just got my VAP results back and I am not to happy. Ready to say screw it and just finally realize that this is a for the rest of my life issue.

Cholesterol Total = 155 (huge improvement for the last test)
HDL Cholesterol = 33 (improvement)
Triglycerides = 86 (Huge improvement)
LDL- Cholesterol = 105 (Improvement)
Chol/HDLC ratio = 4.7 (improvement)
Non - HDL Cholesterol = 122 (improvement)

So far so good right? Well...

LDL Particle = 1326 = Moderate
LDL Small = 347 HIGH
LDL Medium = 325 HIGH
HDL Large = 3325 High

Apo lipoprotein B = 86 86 Moderate
Lipoprotein(a) = 14 Optimal

Doc wants me to start slow release N-pan and COQ10 daily. I have no issues with that other than his office personnel suck and it takes about a month to get results back. I have yet to receive the rest of my BW results to see where my test is back.

I almost snapped on him in front of his apprentice the last time we met. This fool is by the numbers when it comes to test results parameters. Some of these test ranges are controversial and this doctor does not have a grey area. For example, I brought up my TSH levels and he gave me this story that my numbers are in range because I am in range according to Quest parameters...well, this is a hugely debatable number and I referenced a leading doctor and board member.

His response? Oh you don't know what you are saying and where are you reading this from....W/E.. I am just upset and I am ranting..

I will update the rest of the BW once I get it from the Docs office today. Lets see how long they will take to release them....

**kelkel** · 12-10-2015, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by ermasta

So, I just had my visit with the Doctor and conversation went well. It's all about baby steps right....We spoke about my cholesterol and I guess I am stuck since it's a hereditary thing. Just got to keep taking the Med and keep a watch on my liver for any changes while on it.

Mine is definitely hereditary as well. Sucks.

He is not to concerned about my TSH, He will revisit the issue if I score high on my prolactin levels again.

Good

Also, he recommended an OTC T booster to see if my levels change at my next blood work. If not, then I will be placed on a low dose of hcg .

Oh hell no, to both. Many otc boosters can actually suppress T levels. Research anything you take in this realm. Low dose HCG? WTF! HCG by itself (dosage dependent) will suppress your LH function. It mimics it so your body senses this and slows down production. HCG Mono Therapy is a form of TRT.

VAP is in order on my next BW and he ,mentioned that my IGF levels were low.

IGF = getting older

Damn , I had to really dissect my post because of the site's spam software....sorry , I hope I made sense.

Thanks,
Ermasta

In bold...

I'll look at your VAP tonight. Got a doc appt myself this afternoon and tomorrow afternoon.

**bullshark99** · 12-10-2015, 04:02 PM

Wow, as usual Kel is correct. Be careful with the OTC T booster, many of those suppress! Disappointing a MD doesn't know better but certainly not surprising?

**ermasta** · 12-10-2015, 07:33 PM

Couldn't edit so ill add the rest of the tst here:

TSH = 1.00 (0.40 - 4.50) down from last tst..guess we can rule out thyroid?
T4, free = 0.8 (0.8-1.8) dropped
T3, free = 2.9 (2.3-4.2) dropped
V12 = 729 (200-1100) didn't test for it last time
Tst total = 324 (250-1100) great it keeps dropping
Free tst =73.5 (35.0 - 155.0) another drop
Vit D = 49 improvement

I took the OTC booster for a month and stopped since I didn't feel anything. Total waste of money but I had to try. I really need to reach that magical 25 posts because I cant even type the word V i t a m i ne lol

Thank you Kelkel in advance!

**ermasta** · 12-10-2015, 07:38 PM

Tell me about it...but you would think they know since he is a doctor, right. Disappointing indeed.

**kelkel** · 12-10-2015, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by ermasta

Hello again,

So I just got my VAP results back and I am not to happy. Ready to say screw it and just finally realize that this is a for the rest of my life issue.

Cholesterol Total = 155 (huge improvement for the last test)
HDL Cholesterol = 33 (improvement)
Triglycerides = 86 (Huge improvement)
LDL- Cholesterol = 105 (Improvement)
Chol/HDLC ratio = 4.7 (improvement)
Non - HDL Cholesterol = 122 (improvement)

So far so good right? Well...

LDL Particle = 1326 = Moderate
LDL Small = 347 HIGH
LDL Medium = 325 HIGH
HDL Large = 3325 High

Apo lipoprotein B = 86 86 Moderate
Lipoprotein(a) = 14 Optimal

Doc wants me to start slow release N-pan and COQ10 daily. I have no issues with that other than his office personnel suck and it takes about a month to get results back. I have yet to receive the rest of my BW results to see where my test is back.

I almost snapped on him in front of his apprentice the last time we met. This fool is by the numbers when it comes to test results parameters. Some of these test ranges are controversial and this doctor does not have a grey area. For example, I brought up my TSH levels and he gave me this story that my numbers are in range because I am in range according to Quest parameters...well, this is a hugely debatable number and I referenced a leading doctor and board member.

His response? Oh you don't know what you are saying and where are you reading this from....W/E.. I am just upset and I am ranting..

I will update the rest of the BW once I get it from the Docs office today. Lets see how long they will take to release them....

Your panels pretty much mirror my new ones. They are really that close. My LDL Particles went from good to bad in the six months without RYR. My doc knows the protocol I've followed and said to get back on the RYR as it's the lesser of two evils compared to statins. He really emphasized that my overall numbers are not bad and a statin's just not needed at this time. I will force myself to use it again, dammit.

Caveat, and what needs to be considered when it comes to my individual results is that I still train as a bodybuilder. With that comes the use of some substances that can impact lipid values. In other words, it can be a self-inflicted wound. We'll see. I'll post more in depth in the Chol Thread when I've got the time.

Back to your numbers. Aside from the particle break down they really are not that bad at all, imho. I'm curious what your LDL-R is as it's a big inflammation marker. Also did they give you a range or just a category for your Lp(a)? Optimal is great as an elevated Lp(a) is a big risk factor. Also know that our particle size is important but it's not the "end all and be all" of cholesterol. The whole picture needs to be evaluated like you are doing with the auto-profile. Read this study as it will ease your mind:

Statins Do Not Decrease Small, Dense Low-Density Lipoprotein

And there's nothing worse than a doc that lives off of lab ranges only without factoring in the person, lifestyle, etc.

**ermasta** · 12-10-2015, 10:18 PM

Well, I like to think that I train hard (BUT) not like you lol. I split the Lipitor pill in half to 20mg daily and I am going to have to try the RYR. I mentioned RYR to the Doc and he told me not to do it because they are probably made in China, like I give a shit as long as it lowers my cholesterol. Guess he wants me connected to the phama friends.

They did give me a range:
Lp(a) = 14 (Optimal <75) (Moderate 75-125)(High >125) so I am fine here.

LDL Pattern B which is high.
LDL Peak size Angstrom =213.9 (A >222.5) (N/A 218.2-222.5) (B <218.2)

I don't see the LDL-R numbers in my test results.

Going to take my testasterone issues to a specialist. I don't think this Doctor is knowledgeable on the matter.

Kelkel, thank you so much for taking time off your busy life to help us noobs out. I really appreciate you and the rest of the team.