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  1. #1
    Simon1972's Avatar
    Simon1972 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    feeling crappiola

    guys, swapped over from 150 mg of test cream daily to 63mg of SUBQ test E every 3.5 days (twice a week) and just feeling low and lethargic .

    its been 10 days on this new protocol- and i dont feel better that the creams.

    noticed im not producing as much oily skin as i did on creams and my acne on the shoulders has subsided since injecting.

    at a loss- i didnt realise creams were as it now appears more potent than subQ pinning- id like to continue with pinning as its less work and mess, but at a loss as to why im feeling less than before.

    does this sound plausable?

  2. #2
    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    With test E, as is a long ester, I would wait minimum 4 weeks before making a final conclusion of the protocol.

  3. #3
    Simon1972's Avatar
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    good point- just plotted a graph- thinking of front loading ( next pin) double dose to bring my levels up and then continuing on the 63mg twice a week protocol thereafter.

    sound like a plan??

  4. #4
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    When I switched from gel to IM injections I continued with the gel for about 3 weeks after starting injections. My theory was it would keep my levels up while the injections were building in my system, and it seemed to work because I didn't feel any different during the transition.

  5. #5
    Simon1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter35 View Post
    When I switched from gel to IM injections I continued with the gel for about 3 weeks after starting injections. My theory was it would keep my levels up while the injections were building in my system, and it seemed to work because I didn't feel any different during the transition.
    Thanks Baxter, appreciate your response. I decided take two shots of 63mg in two days and then go back to my bi weekly protocol (Tues pm and sat am). I actually injected my second day shot 30mins before I read your post.
    How much is your weekly dose? Have you noticed any difference long term on pinning?

  6. #6
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    I'm at 120mg/wk (60x2). It took a couple rounds of blood work to find that dose, but I've been there quite a while now and I feel great. I pin IM, so idk how that dose would compare for subq but I don't think its that much different in the long run. I never really felt any difference btw gels and shots. I feel good on both, but shots are more convenient to me than using gel every day.

  7. #7
    Joco71 is offline Senior Member
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    How long have you been on injections? If less than 4 weeks time is your culprit.

  8. #8
    Simon1972's Avatar
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    Yeah only 2 weeks, after I read the responses it makes sense. After my two pins two days running I'm starting to feel much better. Might jump on a week of creams for the remaining 2 weeks while I wait for stable levels to kick in.

  9. #9
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    Just ride it out man. You'll feel better soon and there's no reason to throw your hormones for a roller coaster

  10. #10
    Roger11 is offline Member
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    Unless your using Reandron(TEST U) that requires a front loading phase to reach maximum peak blood levels then frontloading is a waste of oil, on paper sure it looks like it works but theoretically it doesn't. Its rubbish. Don't waste your time doing this.

    Just like when people are on cycle and say im going to frontload 2 grams of eq or tren or deca , whats the point. I see none.


    Just continue on your protocol for as long as you can and pull bloods, make sure you keep your protocol consistent, it took me a long long time to fix my protocol up I went through about 2-3 different ones until I found one that I feel best on/function great on. And I didn't frontload haha.

    Give it time mate, good luck

  11. #11
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Interesting advice from the guys above.
    Expect to feel a bit off until things level out.
    Several of the top docs in TRT (Crisler) are proponents of an initial "double shot" or front load to initiate TRT.
    You'll be fine Simon. Patience.
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  12. #12
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    Yeah it is hard when you feel like garbage. Taking your cream the first week or two sounds reasonable, but at the same time you don't really want your levels to get too high, it will also mess with your perception of things to a degree. Same with that double pin. When I was on Subq I had to increase my dosing pattern to EOD in order to feel right on it. My T levels ended up lower with the same dose by going subq, and I felt like it took longer to build up in the system. I'm going to suggest picking a protocol and just sticking with it min 4 weeks, 6 weeks would be better with subq to get an idea where your levels actually are at.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Interesting advice from the guys above.
    Expect to feel a bit off until things level out.
    Several of the top docs in TRT (Crisler) are proponents of an initial "double shot" or front load to initiate TRT.
    You'll be fine Simon. Patience.
    I don't think front loading is a bad idea, especially for someone just starting, but I wonder if they should go about it differently. your existing test levels endogenous will drop off after the injection, but will contribute to your total levels initially, I think you need the boost a bit further into it, and personally think evening it out with a second shot between first and second doses or second and third doses if dosing twice a week, would be a better option, and avoid excessive peaks, and then troughs associated with just starting.

  14. #14
    Simon1972's Avatar
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    thanks for the posts guys- Seonage, ive been on creams for 5 months now so its not a drop in endogenous test causing issues i dont think, i really appreciated the feedback from you all- im feeling a bit more normal today and have decided to use cream on top of the pins- half dose per day for the remaining 5 days- id rather come down from a peak than spend more time down in the trough- after that im sure it will take a few days to stabilise and i will maintain protocol for a few weeks and wait to level out.

    so far its on the improve.

  15. #15
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Update this Simon. It's interesting to hear how people do when switching protocols like this.
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  16. #16
    Simon1972's Avatar
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    ok, feeling average but stable decided 3 days ago to increase dosage to 0.3 ml from the 0.25 i was injecting.

    this equates to 150mg a week total testosterone Enanthate injected-(75mg tues pm-sat am) a rise from the 125mg i was taking.

    the tell tale signs of oily scalp has come back which to me, is a sign im at least at near the same serum level i was on, when i was on the 150mg test cream daily.

    so far feeling mood has lifted- i will wait for a few more pins to decide it i need any more movement on dose.

    my math works out as follows:
    injected 150mg week test e @72% active=108mg week
    test cream suspension 150mg day @10% absorption= 105mg week

    so pretty close- unless the absorption varies up or down- seems to be close judging by the way i feel.

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