Starting with Low Dose TRT

**macmathews** · 06-09-2016, 08:28 AM

Stats

40 Yrs Male - 6'-3" 245lbs BF = 20% ( I think ) I workout alot..
have been serious in the gym for a little better than 20 Yrs..

In 2012 had a major depressive episode where my Doc found Total test at 125 ng/dl
I realize now that I was WAY over stressed , Barely sleeping ( 2 hrs a night tops )
Doc put me on Test E which I took for about 14 months.. Started at 200mg week and dropped it to 100mg/wk after a few months
I starting feeling better but not great at about the 1 year mark and decided maybe I should try and get OFF now..

Ended up stopping with clomid PCT only.. never took any HCG althought I did take clomid on and off during TRT.. (doc recommended)
in 2014 I got blood work with Total T being at about 450 but Free T a bottom of scale.. SHBG =23
I noticed strength and libido were down and I still had Test left so I started on my own again at 120mg/wk split in 2 injections..

I stopped this at the 6 week mark due to extreme fatigue , increased depression, flushing, brain fog, flu like feelings it brought on.

I am currently working on a cleaner diet,lately its been way too much processed sugar and carbs..
If my blood work comes back crappy I may commit to TRT

My question is this, once I get my BF and weight down would a small starting dose make the initial sides more bearable ?

At the end of my TRT I was feeling good in terms of gym strength and Libido was great..
I quit since my family doc would not prescribe , since she was afraid of roid rage .. I laughed and said I was more mellow than even taking TEST..
I actually had a walk-in clinic doc helping me.. But was afraid she would disappear and I would be on my own.
since then I have found a TRT clinic within about 1 hours drive that allows self injection

thanks for any Help

MAC

**Youthful55guy** · 06-09-2016, 09:07 AM

I'm a huge advocate of lower and more frequent dosing to help control side-effects (mainly E2 & DHT conversion spikes). Weekly or even less frequent makes absolutely no sense. There's absolutely no research to show that it should be the "gold standard" that docs hold it to be. It's a hand-me-down protocol that came from the barbaric ages of medicine when docs didn't trust patients to self-inject. Every 2-4 weeks became the norm because that was about as frequent as they could expect a patient to keep coming to a clinic for injections. There were financial incentives too, as they could charge for a clinic visit with every shot but insurance companies have wised up to this practice.

I advocate every 3 day dosing of about 40mg T-cyp (I actually use a compounded blend of T-cyp/T-prop). If you are using a 200mg/mL solution, that's 0.2 mL per injection. Another perk of E3D dosing is that when you go that low in volume, you can drop down to an insulin syringe. I use a 28G 1/2 in needle and it's virtually painless.

**balin** · 06-09-2016, 09:09 AM

Some people feel better at a lower dose. Most seem to do better at the higher range. Numbers from the blood work are a good place to start but ultimately each person has to decide for them selves.

**InternalFire** · 06-09-2016, 09:59 AM

I too use 1/2" insulin syringe with 30G needle, painless it is, thats truth. Happy to see I'm nothe the only one using half inch needles

I started my self-TRT on E3.5D

**macmathews** · 06-09-2016, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by balin

Some people feel better at a lower dose. Most seem to do better at the higher range. Numbers from the blood work are a good place to start but ultimately each person has to decide for them selves.

BW is key and while my doc years ago said my numbers were good.. My E2 was at like 80.. high end of range being like 40..
At the time I had no education on the matter , but understand alot more today
When I stopped injecting I felt good for about 2 weeks..
Likely while my E2 dropped and my t was still not in the shitter

Anybody else take a long time to adjust when they first started to inject.. I can remember a flu and fever like feeling about 2 weeks in that was NOT a bug of any kind and was surely the injections

**Simon1972** · 06-10-2016, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

I too use 1/2" insulin syringe with 30G needle, painless it is, thats truth. Happy to see I'm nothe the only one using half inch needles

I started my self-TRT on E3.5D

must take a while to load up those needles, i use a 29g and am regretting not getting a 28 or 27G, takes over 3 mins to load up even when i place the oil in hot water to drop viscosity.

OP, go the low road for sure- many opt for the 50mg of test E or C as their base dose and work out your optimal dose from there-

also make life easy on yourself and spread your doses to fit into your routine, i pin Tuesday evening and Saturday morning which makes it every 3.5 days and Keeps my days constant.

everyone is different, gauge it for yourself and consider adding HCG , there's something to be said about backfilling the hormonal pathways too.

**InternalFire** · 06-10-2016, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Simon1972

must take a while to load up those needles, i use a 29g and am regretting not getting a 28 or 27G, takes over 3 mins to load up even when i place the oil in hot water to drop viscosity

Well, I get what youre saying, Im currently using UGL test-e multi-use vial and oil is alot thinner in room temperature than pharm grade test-e amps that I have, BUT, what I do is I boil cup of water, let it sit for ~1 min so temperature drops well bellow boiling range and I submerge 80% of the vial in it for 3-5 minutes, pulling it out and swirling around a bit during that time, then when time comes to drawing I found it to be real easy, honestly didnt take more than 30seconds to draw 30iu's (75mg test) with 30G needle. Now the first time I did that I know I have left oil sit in there too long, water got cooler in the cup and so did the oil before I drew it and it was twice as hard to draw it, but yesterday it was real easy as I pulled out while vial was still hot to hold and I was pleased with how easy it was to draw.

Earlier I have made a warm-up testing on pharm grade oil visual viscosity test and it doesnt even compare anywhere close to UGL oil viscosity while in cold, so I can honestly say I cannot see myself using this same 30G needle for pharm grade oil use, no way.

**Simon1972** · 06-10-2016, 02:58 AM

Found the same . I use pharmacy primoteston and its a batch, the meditech ugl was a breeze.

**macmathews** · 06-10-2016, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Simon1972

must take a while to load up those needles, i use a 29g and am regretting not getting a 28 or 27G, takes over 3 mins to load up even when i place the oil in hot water to drop viscosity.

OP, go the low road for sure- many opt for the 50mg of test E or C as their base dose and work out your optimal dose from there-

also make life easy on yourself and spread your doses to fit into your routine, i pin Tuesday evening and Saturday morning which makes it every 3.5 days and Keeps my days constant.

everyone is different, gauge it for yourself and consider adding HCG , there's something to be said about backfilling the hormonal pathways too.

Thanks for the input..
I just noticed we are only about 45 minutes apart..
I am in Summerstown , Ontario

**Youthful55guy** · 06-10-2016, 10:00 AM

Time to load the syringes is a function of 3 variables: 1) needle size, 2) viscosity, and 3) volume.

I actually have no idea how the viscosity of my compounded T compares to other branded products, so I can't give much insight there.

Volume is a key factor, which is one reason i advocate smaller and more frequent dosing. The smaller the volume, the less time it takes. For me, i can load up a 0.2 mL dose in about a minute with a 28G needle. Simply insert the needle into the stopper. Invert. And pull all the way back on the plunger and hold it there. The T will slowly drip in. I usually do a slow count to 100 and then let the plunger go back. The air/bubbles in the oil will coalesce and float to the top and you inject back into the vial with the excess. Any small bubbles left in the oil will be compressed to an insignificant size and will not affect the volume that is injected, although I find i can usually manipulate them all to go back into the vial.

the entire process takes about a minute for 3 days worth of T and i find it's time well invested.

**InternalFire** · 06-10-2016, 10:32 AM

I found if I pulled the plunger all the way down for greater suction force, the air seems to start leaking in to the chamber of the syringe trough the backside of the plunger rubber seal, so I only pull back about ~30iu worth until 10iu is filled and move slowly till I see 30iu take place and then let the air out back in to the vial to have nice even measure of 30iu in my case.

**macmathews** · 06-10-2016, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

I found if I pulled the plunger all the way down for greater suction force, the air seems to start leaking in to the chamber of the syringe trough the backside of the plunger rubber seal, so I only pull back about ~30iu worth until 10iu is filled and move slowly till I see 30iu take place and then let the air out back in to the vial to have nice even measure of 30iu in my case.

What about just backfilling the syringe ?
Is it possible to get several injections per needle ?

Mac

**InternalFire** · 06-10-2016, 12:10 PM

Backfilling? You mean remove the plunger and fill with bigger gauge needle trough the back of the syringe and then reinsert the plunger? If thats what you meant its not possible with insulin syringes I have it has plunger stopper at the end so its lock-sealed at the back. Otherwise if you meant fill with greater volume and use same syringe multiple times? Possible If needle is removable but with insulin syringes its not the case most of the times. People lets not make things needlesly complicated, heat your oil draw it while its hot and pin it without much delay, its swift like trough a butter process even trough 30G needle (as goes for ugl gear). In the future im eager to see how much of a struggle can it be doing the same with pharm gear which in my case is so much thicker oil

**macmathews** · 06-10-2016, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

Backfilling? You mean remove the plunger and fill with bigger gauge needle trough the back of the syringe and then reinsert the plunger? If thats what you meant its not possible with insulin syringes I have it has plunger stopper at the end so its lock-sealed at the back. Otherwise if you meant fill with greater volume and use same syringe multiple times? Possible If needle is removable but with insulin syringes its not the case most of the times. People lets not make things needlesly complicated, heat your oil draw it while its hot and pin it without much delay, its swift like trough a butter process even trough 30G needle (as goes for ugl gear). In the future im eager to see how much of a struggle can it be doing the same with pharm gear which in my case is so much thicker oil

Yes , filling from the back.. I have 1cc syringes with 1" 28 GA needles and if/when I start TRT I will do .15ml / 30mg twice per week.. Kinda hard to be so precise syringes/needles I have.

**Youthful55guy** · 06-10-2016, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by macmathews

What about just backfilling the syringe ?
Is it possible to get several injections per needle ?

Mac

I'm not a proponent of back filling. Too great of a chance of introducing unwanted germs. Although, I've read of guys doing it. i just find it unnecessary. Pulls up just fine for me through a 28G needle.

**Simon1972** · 06-10-2016, 03:30 PM

In case people confused my post. I mentioned backfilling hormonal pathways not backfilling syringes .

On the latter, I don't reccomend it. Too messy, and multiple dose syringes open up for contamination, syringes are cheap and we can all afford a fresh one.find a gauge that works and go with it.

Backfilling. Homonal pathways is when you reinstate progesterone dhea etc to optimal levels. The pathway leading to testosterone . Encourage everyone to google it. I posted a video on it a year or so ago

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...-must-see.html