To Eat ,or not to Eat ?

[Rogue Comment]

39 yr old male
240 lbs.

I have been on TRT for five weeks. BW due at 6 weeks ,and most likely a raise in dose. Currently on:
100mg tcyp/w
1000iu hcg /w ( I'm going to talk with Dr. about splitting this based on lurking here.)
.5mg anes. /w

I'm idiopathic ,and using a clinic out of the Seattle area. Pretty knowledgable, but monetarily driven.

I tried to get the VA to start me on TRT for a few years as my total T has been 179-120 range (340-1150 normal scale). The VA said my level was "adequate" via email ,as I couldn't even get a face to face with an endocrinologist.

My thoughts are that I have had low T for a very long time. I also had a six for estrogen and think maybe the .5 mg took my estrogen even lower as the last few weeks have been less than fun. My testicles have been excessively warm at night. I also noticed underarm sweating which I have never had outside of exercising.

So I realize that this is going to be a transition and I'm optimistic. My main concerns are weight gain... so far I'm up 12 lbs since starting, and it's really easy to gain with no signs of slowing down. Is it WATER? fat ? My pants fit about the same ,but shirts are getting tighter. I don't see a real difference yet ,and I'm unsure how to proceed.

Is water gain typical for T Cyp. ?
Should I start dieting ,or Just hope I'm gaining a fair amount of lean muscle ,and keep eating?

I could add cardio also? Not doing much more than walking a few times a week.

I have body measurement from before starting TRT ,but so far it seems to be a general gain all over ,and not in any one area. Although my muscles are feeling more dense/ harder than I recall in the past.

Sorry it's a long post. I didn't feel blood work would help much( in my limited experience) . Other than T ,free T, and cholesterol everything was normal range. Although I did have low normal estrogen ,and SHBG.

[Simon1972]

What's your starting weight and height? If you were skinny and are now filing out, don't stress. Eat.

If you don't see a difference and are filling out your shirts and look lean. Eat.

Your starting t was crappy. You are now at a decent level, I'd just eat , as long as its clean and you are working out, even if its just pushups and squats using body weight only.

Water weight is a sign of estrogen, if you are fat, diet, lose the fat. Split your test to twice a week to prevent conversion to E.

Don't stress. Most likely its water, if you look better naked and feel more energetic , don't over think it. Wait for new blood work and see how you feel. That should be your guide this early on.

Also your post isn't concise, you assume we know your exercise regime and other details such as body height etc. Help us, by being a bit more accurate and on point.
240 pounds is OK for a 6 footer, you might be 5 foot, not so good

[Beethoven]

There is some water weight gain with TRT. If you are working out then eat for that type of activity your doing. For most of us its weight training, but wether it be that or running, eat to support your particular regimin. Also, you will build up a little muscle, depending on your choice of exercise so again as Simon said, (no pun intended) don't overthink it if you look and feel good.

[Rogue Comment]

Thanks for the info, I'll try to be more concise!

6ft, 240lb starting TRT ,now I'm 252. I lift weights ,and do minimal cardio. If I felt great ,and was dialed in on my TRT dose I would feel better about just going with it. The problem is I feel about the same or worse ,but I'm gaining weight fast. I had expected to lose ,or maintain weight with a slow shift towards more muscle over the next year.

Ill not worry about it for now ,but I have the feeling that I could hit 260 before my BW in two weeks. My normal maximum body weight limit is 250 lbs . Normally I would start watching what I eat ,and ramp up cardio.

I'll mention switching to two shots a week after blood work. I'm stuck getting my shots at the clinic until after my BW.. The Dr. Wants to control everything until then so he gets a solid baseline.

Any signs estrogen is too low ,or too high (other than BW). no gyno ,or nipple sensitivity.

So far I have noticed testicular temperature being high , sweating under arms , and crazy tired every day except the third day after my shot. I also had aching joints week three ,but that has subsided thankfully. I have taken the smaller half of the Arimidex pill the last two weeks ,and was planning on a larger half this next week to see if joints started aching again.

I Get my shot ,and take my Arimidex .5mg the next day. (HCG is three days before my shot).

Thanks for the super fast ,and intelligent replies!

[Beethoven]

The only thing that explains weight gain that fast is diet. It's very easy to over do it while making gains in the gym and eat too much or the wrong stuff. If your estradiol is high you can bloat easily but not twenty pounds. If you eat right you will lose assuming a caloric deficit.

[SweepTheLegJohnny]

Thanks for the info, I'll try to be more concise!

6ft, 240lb starting TRT ,now I'm 252. I lift weights ,and do minimal cardio. If I felt great ,and was dialed in on my TRT dose I would feel better about just going with it. The problem is I feel about the same or worse ,but I'm gaining weight fast. I had expected to lose ,or maintain weight with a slow shift towards more muscle over the next year.

Ill not worry about it for now ,but I have the feeling that I could hit 260 before my BW in two weeks. My normal maximum body weight limit is 250 lbs . Normally I would start watching what I eat ,and ramp up cardio.

I'll mention switching to two shots a week after blood work. I'm stuck getting my shots at the clinic until after my BW.. The Dr. Wants to control everything until then so he gets a solid baseline.

Any signs estrogen is too low ,or too high (other than BW). no gyno ,or nipple sensitivity.

So far I have noticed testicular temperature being high , sweating under arms , and crazy tired every day except the third day after my shot. I also had aching joints week three ,but that has subsided thankfully. I have taken the smaller half of the Arimidex pill the last two weeks ,and was planning on a larger half this next week to see if joints started aching again.

I Get my shot ,and take my Arimidex .5mg the next day. (HCG is three days before my shot).

Thanks for the super fast ,and intelligent replies!

This is a sure sign that your E2 is out of whack; either too high or too low. You're starting to feel better a few days AFTER your shot and AI dose; this means that your E2 is either coming down because it was too high or it's bouncing back as the Arimidex works its way out of your system. You need to get your BW done with your protocol and see where your estradiol is at.

Personally, my money is on elevated E2 as it does several things that messes with your weight. First, you hold on to more water, as has been pointed out. Secondly. elevated E2 raises your blood sugar considerably which will also cause you to put on body fat and make you insulin resistant.

I do have one suggestion; try to get off of your AI if possible. I cut back on my dosage, split up the injections and started doing sub-q injections and it brought my E2 into reasonable ranges. I crashed my E2 several times and it wrecked me. I don't even need DIM or the copper/zinc combination to control it at this point.

[Beethoven]

Johnny has good points. I will tell you from my personal experience that high E2 can impact you a lot. If you're dialed in however , a lot of other things come into play. My strength gains were going well. I was putting on muscle. The more I lifted the hungrier I got. The more I ate the more I made gains. What ultimately happened was I bloated and my blood pressure went way up. In the process I gained 25 pounds of which not all is muscle. Now, checked my diet, added in cardio and L Arginine and viola, have dropped 10 pounds in two weeks but more importantly , blood pressure is back to normal , bloating is down, and am feeling waaaay better in general. I still have a way to go before being where I want but the body does respond to what you put in and put on. Assuming your protocol is spot on and don't have high estradiol levels, which BTW excessive weight or fat tends to make you aromatise higher. Good luck.

[SweepTheLegJohnny]

I'm a power lifter/Highland Games competitor/thrower so I could give two sh-ts less about having a six-pack but I still condition on a regular basis. I would suggest doing some beginner HIIT workouts 2-3 times a week, downloading an app like Lose It! (great for tracking calories and nutrients) and working from there. Make sure you get your BW done too and ask for an E2 specific assay.

Also, remember that what you eat has a large impact on your estrogen levels. Taking in cruciferous vegetables and eating a lot of fiber help lower estradiol levels and help keep them in check.

[Rogue Comment]

I was thinking it might be estrogen levels, but I have no idea if it's high ,or low. BW should be this week as I started 6/15.

I definitely would like to minimize my medications, so kicking the AI would be nice. I don't mind needles so twice a week is no problem as long as my Dr. sticks with the plan of me self injecting after the baseline BW. At $195 a visit ,plus a random fee of $50, and $18 for the shot... I hope he doesn't start dragging his feet. Out of pocket is only a small portion of that thanks to insurance, but it still seems exorbitant.

I'll check out HIIT training.

Maybe it's diet? But I really felt I was about the same calorie wise ,although I have been drinking milk which I usually avoid. So I switched back to black coffee...

My doctor said that he didn't want fasting blood work, is that normal for TEST/ estrogen BW. He is not ordering a full panel either. The first full panel BW cost $1200 bucks, my share was $190. I had no idea BW was that expensive!

[SweepTheLegJohnny]

I was thinking it might be estrogen levels, but I have no idea if it's high ,or low. BW should be this week as I started 6/15.

I definitely would like to minimize my medications, so kicking the AI would be nice. I don't mind needles so twice a week is no problem as long as my Dr. sticks with the plan of me self injecting after the baseline BW. At $195 a visit ,plus a random fee of $50, and $18 for the shot... I hope he doesn't start dragging his feet. Out of pocket is only a small portion of that thanks to insurance, but it still seems exorbitant.

I'll check out HIIT training.

Maybe it's diet? But I really felt I was about the same calorie wise ,although I have been drinking milk which I usually avoid. So I switched back to black coffee...

My doctor said that he didn't want fasting blood work, is that normal for TEST/ estrogen BW. He is not ordering a full panel either. The first full panel BW cost $1200 bucks, my share was $190. I had no idea BW was that expensive!

They wanted me to fast for my first round of BW because blood sugar affects your PSA levels some how. They won't do treatment if your PSA levels are elevated and apparently eating can jack them up. They also want to see where your fasting blood sugar is as well because it's obviously an indicator of insulin resistance or full blown diabetes which is something else they have to take into consideration. My fasting blood sugar was high as my first indication of low testosterone was an inability to regulate my blood sugar, even with a clean diet and exercise. But, long story short, no, they don't need it to be fasting once they've done the initial round and made sure your PSA levels weren't high.

Arimidex is really, really potent stuff as I'm sure people have told you. In all actuality, the DIM/copper/zinc combination is as well; I actually crashed my E2 using too much DIM (400mgs a day) without having Arimidex on board. But, the low testosterone conundrum is made more difficult by the fact that most of us have low estrogen as well... This was a good thing for me as I was able to regulate my E2 by simply doing sub-q injections, splitting up injections and lowering the dosage. BUT, I have friends that have untreated E2 levels around 60-80 points and that's basically no-man's land for them. Lowering their testosterone dose and taking DIM/zinc/copper stack doesn't bring it down enough and they need Arimidex. However, Arimidex is powerful so they end up crashing their E2 a few times before getting the dosage and timing dialed in. A lot of guys are getting by with DIM/copper/ and zinc which is definitely a good thing as getting your hands on less powerful AI's is difficult.

But, back to your original point, I imagine your estrogen levels are out of whack and that's a part of your problem.

[Rogue Comment]

Arimidex is really, really potent stuff as I'm sure people have told you. In all actuality, the DIM/copper/zinc combination is as well; I actually crashed my E2 using too much DIM (400mgs a day) without having Arimidex on board. But, the low testosterone conundrum is made more difficult by the fact that most of us have low estrogen as well... This was a good thing for me as I was able to regulate my E2 by simply doing sub-q injections, splitting up injections and lowering the dosage. BUT, I have friends that have untreated E2 levels around 60-80 points and that's basically no-man's land for them. Lowering their testosterone dose and taking DIM/zinc/copper stack doesn't bring it down enough and they need Arimidex. However, Arimidex is powerful so they end up crashing their E2 a few times before getting the dosage and timing dialed in. A lot of guys are getting by with DIM/copper/ and zinc which is definitely a good thing as getting your hands on less powerful AI's is difficult.



But, back to your original point, I imagine your estrogen levels are out of whack and that's a part of your problem.

So I took the small half of my Arimidex this week again ,and I'm feeling a bit better. I think this next week I may just leave it in the bottle ,and see how I feel. If I start to crash I'll take it ,and see what happens . Hopefully that gives me an idea if the AI is needed ,and if it's high, or low estrogen causing the crash.

I will definitely take your advise on trying the twice weekly T shot. I thoroughly believe in taking as little medication as possible to achieve optimal health. I already noticed that splitting my HCG shot improved it's effects noticeably. I also couldn't find anyone taking 1000iu at one shot and read a bit about more than 500iu at once being overkill.

I was curious about the blood work being fasting vs non- fasting based on some of the articles I have read lately. I read that consuming sugar reduces testosterone in the blood stream by as much as 25%. Seems like anything ,but fasting might give unreliable results. It also opens the door for someone to get 25% more medication than needed either on purpose ,or less likely unknowingly.

I'm guessing grabbing a 20oz. white chocolate mocha on my way to the dr. Is not the best idea. I do know my lowest T level was on my non-fasting BW. It was 50 points lower than the previous BW.


Thanks for all the input ,and I'll make sure to post the BW results when I get them. This has been a long six weeks! Hopefully is see some tangible results in the near future.