Feel bad typing responses to others without showing mine

[Moonjumper]

I was going to wait until I had my second set of labs so I could show any differences but between a borderline thread hijack and just typing out other responses I figured I should post my own. I'll have new lab results before the weekend so this is close enough.

Basics:
33 y.o. male - 6' 2" and currently about 290. 245 is as small as I've been since I was 14. When I was 245 I was approximately 13% body fat however. Currently per a Tanita I'm more like 40%. I work evenings and sleep was not 8 hours and generally restless. Could sleep all day and still want to go back to sleep upon waking. Nearly every textbook symptom of low test had my picture beside it. Only exception was in libido but could just have been because I wasn't getting any anyhow so was eager when it did happen. Was married to my first wife and we had 2 kids and eventually a 3rd when I first started questioning my test levels. Going by symptoms only I've likely always been low but never knew to check. Now on wife #2 and combined we have 5 kids (all girls and yes I dread puberty starting within the next year or so.) I get 3-4 hours of sleep between getting off of work and then being back up to get everyone ready and dropped at school. After hitting the gym I try to get a couple more hours of sleep before picking kids up and going back to work.

Around 6 years ago I had my primary doc check me and I was "fine." Labcorp had me at right at 450 within their range for total test. I was between the bottom and top so doc said I'm good. I kept plugging along and got him to check me again about 3 years ago. I was down to 418 per Labcorp. Still didn't know everything to ask for at that point but didn't matter because I was still fine per my doc. Presented the chart of showing per age and how my level was in the bottom 10% based on age. He relented and agreed to 1/4 cc of 100 mg/mL every 2 weeks but no more. By then I did know enough to know that would likely hurt more than help so I declined and started slowly asking around about other doctors and increased my own reading of the subject.

Because of my job (LEO) I tried to ask for docs rather than try to just start going to the normal doctors around home. Didn't figure I need the close knit medical community to start mumbling that I was just looking for stuff. I'm in a rather rural area and few of the doctors here know anything about HRT for men. Of everyone I know around here that goes local none have ever had anything checked other than total test. No HCG , estrogen blockers, etc. I finally asked a pharmacist in a larger town within my state if he knew of anyone. I got lucky and one of his gym partners goes to a doctor just a bit over an hour from here that is decently versed in it. I made an appointment and within the week I was in for blood work.

This doctor uses Pathgroup Labs and their ranges are a little funky compared to Labcorp which I was used to.


result range
Bioavailable Test 216 (131-682)
Free test (calculated) 90 (33-227)
Free test (%) 2.56 (1.6-2.9)
IGF-1 serum 247 (84-250)
free t3 2.6 (2-4.9)
free t4 1.24 (.75-1.54)
Test 4.47 (1.9-15.8)
DHEA 214.25 (84.04-570.75)
TSH 1.9 (.5-5.8)
FSH 4.9 (1-42.5)
LH 3.5 (1.7-11.2)
Iodine 50.2 (40-92)
Zinc 96 (60-120)
E2 56.4 (25-75)
B12 282 (50-1500)
Vit D 27.9 (40-120)
PSA .5 (0-4)

Along with a half dozen vitamins he advised me to take (and I have) he placed me on the following:
Armidex 1 mg 1x week
Clomid (20 mg I think) take half one tablet for 2 days and skip 1 day then repeat
Test Cyp 250 mg/mL at 1 cc per week. I have been breaking it up into 1/2 cc 2x per week instead.

He wanted to try the clomid first but I think I'm going to request HCG instead. He wants me on one or the other to keep natural production and to prevent atrophy however I've been experiencing shrinkage anyhow plus a drawn up sack even with the clomid.

Prior to blood draws a week ago I returned to his prescribed 1x per week for injections. And I do intend to ask about getting his blessing to do 2x per week at half vs the 1x per week at 1 full cc like he had prescribed. I think he will go for it as he is mostly open minded except the sub-q as stated in the other thread. However the last thing or 2 I read seem to indicate it is more effective for those with lower body fat levels. In a year or two I'll explore that option further.

Since starting though my sleep has greatly improved. Energy levels have increased and I look forward to going to the gym which I've not looked forward to in years. Added bonus is that muscle soreness isn't debilitating like it has been my entire life. I can even still walk the days following leg day. Previously the 2 days after a leg day was the do not so much as wiggle a toe day because of the pain. However the lack of exercise related pain is the same over my entire body. And if my scales at home are accurate I've lost 3% points of body fat over the last 2 months.

Questions/comments/and suggestions are more than welcome.

[Simon1972]

So, what's the question?

[almostgone]

^^^ I believe he was simply sharing his experience.

[Baxter35]

Welcome, and please update with your latest blood test results when they come in. I'm curious to see where you levels are because 250mg/wk is a very hefty trt dose....especially to start out without titrating up.

[Bodacious]

Agree with Baxter here. That's more of a cruise dose.

[Moonjumper]

I pretty much agree with you Baxter and Bodacious about the quantity. Between that and the Clomid is the main reason I had planned to wait until I had these next labs before I posted my own. He has been in the business for a good while though and he seemed confident with his approach. I'm pretty curious myself how it is going to look.

[Simon1972]

I'm curious to see where you levels are because 250mg/wk is a very hefty trt dose....especially to start out without titrating up.

agreed im running at 869 (250-1150) at last bloodwork- drawn day before my next pin, and thats on 150mg a week at x2 dose (75mg each).

[kelkel]

Agree with the guys above. Did you get cortisol tested? All the stress you've been under can divert your cholesterol pathways to producing cortisol which then suppresses your T production.

250 mgs is a whole lot of T. Body weight is irrelevant if that's what your doc's thinking.
With your current weight/body fat % you may be fine with 1 mg adex per week. You'd be better off taking half the day of injection and the other half 3-4 days later. It's got about a 50 hr half life.
Clomid will do nothing for you in the presence of exogenous testosterone . Waste of time. Get HCG .

[Moonjumper]

Agree with the guys above. Did you get cortisol tested? All the stress you've been under can divert your cholesterol pathways to producing cortisol which then suppresses your T production.

250 mgs is a whole lot of T. Body weight is irrelevant if that's what your doc's thinking.
With your current weight/body fat % you may be fine with 1 mg adex per week. You'd be better off taking half the day of injection and the other half 3-4 days later. It's got about a 50 hr half life.
Clomid will do nothing for you in the presence of exogenous testosterone. Waste of time. Get HCG.

He did not check cortisol or if he did I don't recognize the coding/classification on my lab reports. The stressors listed above are not a drop in the bucket of everything that is going on. The things I listed are what I consider the minor stuff. Have child custody issues going with ex due to lack of proper treatment of kids and possible abuse/neglect going on. Been dragging on for over a year and still no closer to a resolution. Kids still being treated the same with her but hasn't been able to get us moved up the schedule any. Plus others but don't figure yall want a soap opera episode on my life. I'm not sure what the doctor's thinking is on that level to start with. I wondered but on that part I wasn't going to question without something better than saying everybody on the internet is on less...

With the a-dex I have actually been breaking it up to taking 2 x a week at half a pill just from reading everyone else's experiences. Typically I will take it 12-24 hrs post T injection and even on the weeks where I had done just the one large injection I still kept to the 2x on the a-dex. Seems to me that from the so far short experience if my E gets to getting higher than it should be I seem to have more restless sleep and wake up exhausted again. Accidentally dropped half of one and it rolled down the drain before I was able to recover it so I did miss it for a couple of days after an injection. I was back to night sweats and poor sleep quality within 48 hrs of the shot. Took my next one as scheduled and everything went back again to actually sleeping. Placebo maybe but was the only difference in any of my routines.

[kelkel]

Cortisol would be listed as simply cortisol.
Very sorry to hear of your life issues. Continued stress can be very suppressive to T levels. Take a gram of C per day to help a bit.
Glad you read enough here to split your adex dosage. Good move.
Remember to post up your upcoming BW please.

[Moonjumper]

Alright I'm back. Stayed busy yesterday and then woke up to sick kids today so been occupied. On to the results. Smaller list of stuff this time as they didn't check as much this time. Blood draw was approximately 7.5 days after last injection of 1 cc of 250 mg/mL.

free test % 2.95 (range of 1.6-2.9)
free test calculated 186 (range of 33-227 pg/mL)
bioavailable 436 (range of 131-682 ng/dL)
Total test 11.45 (range of 1.9-15.8 ng/mL)

E2 76.8 (range of 25-75 pg/mL)

So all levels higher but E2 increased a lot even on 1 mg A-dex a week. He increased my dosage of it to 2 mg per week. He wants me to continue the Clomid and stay on the 1 cc of 250 mg/mL test but he was good with adding HCG 2x a week of 500 iu each. I'm planning to stop the Clomid unless one of you gives me a reason to not. All I have noticed it does is give me a headache for a few hours after taking it. Testes still shrank, sack drew up, etc. I asked about stopping it but he wanted it to continue but didn't go into a lot of detail as to why. Also didn't get him convinced on swapping to pinning twice a week vs once a week yet but I figure that is a work in progress and I will continue doing as I have been with it as well.

I will say I'm going to source the HCG from someone other than him next time as holy crap at the price they charge. Averages out to a bit over $18 per shot at his price.

As always, critique away.

[kelkel]

I would not double your intake of adex. Maybe add another .5 and just go M-W-F or something similar. Results are not linear when it comes to dosing titrations with T or E. You definitely seem to be a heavy converter to E. As you continue to lose weight this will change. When was the BW pulled relative to your last injection? Also, why can't you switch to twice per week injections on your own?

Staying on the clomid is ridiculous, as stated earlier. It's doing absolutely nothing for you while on exogenous T. The doc would simply have to test your LH & FSH to realize this.....

When you get over 50 posts one of us can pm you with location to purchase HCG at very reasonable prices.

[Moonjumper]

Lab draw was about 7.5 days after last injection. And I'm already planning 2 a week at half vs 1 at full cc. I figure it will do a better job of managing my E conversion. And when I reach 50 I'll take you up on the source. I know I could be a post whore and hit 50 quickly but I'm trying to avoid being that guy. I've found one location that I know of others using that has been legit thus far. I'll shoot it to you then as well in case you want to add another to your list.

[kelkel]

Good move on splitting your dose. You'll have 50 posts in not time. Visit some of the other forums here and jump in.

[ab037]

Lab draw was about 7.5 days after last injection. And I'm already planning 2 a week at half vs 1 at full cc. I figure it will do a better job of managing my E conversion. And when I reach 50 I'll take you up on the source. I know I could be a post whore and hit 50 quickly but I'm trying to avoid being that guy. I've found one location that I know of others using that has been legit thus far. I'll shoot it to you then as well in case you want to add another to your list.

It may just be an oversite on my part but,
Was your E2 test the "sensitive essay" ?
If not the number will read higher than what it really is

[Moonjumper]

It may just be an oversite on my part but,
Was your E2 test the "sensitive essay" ?
If not the number will read higher than what it really is

It is supposed to be the sensitive. And prior to A-dex I fit the criteria of high E near perfectly.