Testosterone Level of 12 at 38 years old?

**DGenRit** · 01-13-2016, 10:58 PM

I recently came across blood work results from 2006 taken by a TRT/HRT Doctor I went to see. It was after the initial consultation. I was 38 at the time and the test levels came in at 12. Is that even possible? I remember him putting me on HGH (1.5IU ED), HCG (ED - don't remember dosage) and Test (125mg per week). I followed that regimen for 9 years and that brought my test levels to around 700-800. I always thought my Natural test production was around 400 - looks like I was wrong.

4 months ago I started a cycle which I just wrapped up this week - getting back on TRT now. I do have a few questions from this very bright and knowledgeable board (not all of you fall into this category - lol).

1. Is it even possible to have a TEST level of 12 at 38 years old? I had done a Winny, Var and Test cycle maybe 7-12 months before that bloodwork. My PCT was non-existent after that cycle as I really was misinformed and pretty ignorant to the AAS world and protocols. Prior to that cycle, I hadn't done any gear for probably 12 years.

2. I'm 47 (going to be 48 in 2 months) - Is it possible after 10 years of TRT (and this recent cycle) to get my body to naturally produce testosterone again? Or am I pretty much dependent on TRT going forward?

**Trapology** · 01-13-2016, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

I recently came across blood work results from 2006 taken by a TRT/HRT Doctor I went to see. It was after the initial consultation. I was 38 at the time and the test levels came in at 12. Is that even possible? I remember him putting me on HGH (1.5IU ED), HCG (ED - don't remember dosage) and Test (125mg per week). I followed that regimen for 9 years and that brought my test levels to around 700-800. I always thought my Natural test production was around 400 - looks like I was wrong.

4 months ago I started a cycle which I just wrapped up this week - getting back on TRT now. I do have a few questions from this very bright and knowledgeable board (not all of you fall into this category - lol).

1. Is it even possible to have a TEST level of 12 at 38 years old? I had done a Winny, Var and Test cycle maybe 7-12 months before that bloodwork. My PCT was non-existent after that cycle as I really was misinformed and pretty ignorant to the AAS world and protocols. Prior to that cycle, I hadn't done any gear for probably 12 years.

2. I'm 47 (going to be 48 in 2 months) - Is it possible after 10 years of TRT (and this recent cycle) to get my body to naturally produce testosterone again? Or am I pretty much dependent on TRT going forward?

Its very possible. Everyones body is different, but your body will always try to repair itself and regain normality no matter what you do to it.
It might not be that common, but i dont see why it wouldnt be possile

**bigdil511** · 01-14-2016, 06:45 AM

I'd say your dependent, just think of the reasons you started trt. If you come off now they will be worse, even if you can restore your own test production it's gonna be worse than when you started trt. Remember you got older=lower test combined with the fact you've been shut down for almost a year.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by bigdil511

I'd say your dependent, just think of the reasons you started trt. If you come off now they will be worse, even if you can restore your own test production it's gonna be worse than when you started trt. Remember you got older=lower test combined with the fact you've been shut down for almost a year.

Thanks for the reply. Does TRT at 125mg per week shut down your production completely? Or does it supplement natural production?

**krugerr** · 01-14-2016, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

Thanks for the reply. Does TRT at 125mg per week shut down your production completely? Or does it supplement natural production?

Any exogenous test will shut down your natural production. Are you running AI or HCG alongside it?

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by krugerr

Any exogenous test will shut down your natural production. Are you running AI or HCG alongside it?

I was running HCG alongside for all 9 years. No AI until I started this most-recent cycle. My TRT doctor recommended 300iu of HCG ED so I ran that for almost 9 years non-stop. I have come to understand that was way too much and it may have desensitized my receptors. As a result on the advice of a different TRT and AAS specialist, I was advised to come off HCG all together for the 2nd half of this last AAS cycle and to resume HCG 2 weeks after my last pin by resuming 300iu ED for 30 days and then scale back to 250iu 2x or 3x per week. I did take AI during my cycle and plan on continuing it throughout my ongoing TRT. What are your thoughts on this plan of action? I have been reading a ton on this forum and, while I've seen some conflicting info, that seems to be the consensus of many. Would love to hear your opinion.

**krugerr** · 01-14-2016, 07:39 AM

I'm afraid that sort of detail is a little out of my depth.

I can say that 300iu ED sounds like a huge dose, ive not heard of a recommendation that high before.
Typically 500IU a week, split tends to be the normal recommendation. I'd wait to see what the others chime in with.

**Trapology** · 01-14-2016, 07:57 AM

Yeah that a tremendous amount....people use between 250/500iu E5d or ew

**Bonaparte** · 01-14-2016, 08:02 AM

There are two different units of measurement used for total test. I'm sure it wasn't in ng/dl (270-1070), but nmol/L (9-38).

**kelkel** · 01-14-2016, 08:08 AM

Yes, you can have a test level of 12. Question is why? And it doesn't seem like your doctor at the time bothered to investigate it. If you have the BW copy post it up. When it comes to the HCG at 300 IU per day. I highly doubt there's any desensitization. I'm curious what your doctors point is with his protocols, both the old one and the new one. Seems like he's guessing. What does he think it's going to do for you?

**kelkel** · 01-14-2016, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

There are two different units of measurement used for total test. I'm sure it wasn't in ng/dl (270-1070), but nmol/L (9-38).

Very well could be. That said, I was down to a 59 TT ng/dl although it was adenoma related.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Yes, you can have a test level of 12. Question is why? And it doesn't seem like your doctor at the time bothered to investigate it. If you have the BW copy post it up. When it comes to the HCG at 300 IU per day. I highly doubt there's any desensitization. I'm curious what your doctors point is with his protocols, both the old one and the new one. Seems like he's guessing. What does he think it's going to do for you?

I will post partial pictures I have of the BW. I am on a plane but I did take a few pics f part of the report.

As for The original Doctor's thought process... I don't know and can't really recall since it was so long ago. I can tell you that he was a highly respected TRT/HRT doc - without mentioning names, I can say he is the same guy that you have all seen on TV for years - old guy ripped and jacked.

The new guy is not a doc but a TRT specialist and his partner is a doc. He supplies many pro BB and also deals with average joes looking for basic TRT. His thoughts are that the ridiculous high dosage for such a prolonged period have likely desensitized my receptors. He wants to jump start them again by having me off HCG for about 10 weeks. Now that my AAS cycle is done, he wants to introduce HCG again along with TRT test dosage. Does this make sense to you?

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 09:47 AM

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 09:48 AM

Edit

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

If you have the BW copy post it up.

I uploaded the pics I have of the BW. 2 separate posts. Much appreciated guys - this bird is great. Can't wait to be able to contribute myself and help others the way you guys are helping me.

**PersuAsian** · 01-14-2016, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

I uploaded the pics I have of the BW.

FYI-I think your name might be at the bottom of the second photo. As far as TRT, are you trying to come off of it and run Clomid or something to see how you respond? Nine years seems like a long time to be shut down and try to come back, but the body is resilient and I guess maybe it is possible, especially if you have been running HCG for the majority of the time. Like others said, that HCG dose is pretty crazy. I think most run about 500 iu per week in their protocol. I've seen some that are a little higher than that. Good luck.

**Bonaparte** · 01-14-2016, 10:03 AM

You didn't include a photo of your test level results...

**almostgone** · 01-14-2016, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Very well could be. That said, I was down to a 59 TT ng/dl although it was adenoma related.

Man, I don't see how you managed to get anything accomplished at that level. At 117, I felt like hammered sh!t that had been run over by a freight train.

**kelkel** · 01-14-2016, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

I was advised to come off HCG all together for the 2nd half of this last AAS cycle and to resume HCG 2 weeks after my last pin by resuming 300iu ED for 30 days and then scale back to 250iu 2x or 3x per week.

No problem coming off for a while. I don't see the logic to then pound them again with the same elevated dose for 30 days. This is not HCG Mono-therapy. IMHO, going back to 250 IU's x 2 per week would suffice.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by PersuAsian

FYI-I think your name might be at the bottom of the second photo.

Any idea how to remove that photo? I can't seem to remove the attachment.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

Any idea how to remove that photo? I can't seem to remove the attachment.

Never Mind - Got it!

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

No problem coming off for a while. I don't see the logic to then pound them again with the same elevated dose for 30 days. This is not HCG Mono-therapy. IMHO, going back to 250 IU's x 2 per week would suffice.

Makes sense. Even after coming off a 16-week cycle?

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

You didn't include a photo of your test level results...

.

Sorry it's there now.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by PersuAsian

As far as TRT, are you trying to come off of it and run Clomid or something to see how you respond? Nine years seems like a long time to be shut down and try to come back, but the body is resilient and I guess maybe it is possible, especially if you have been running HCG for the majority of the time.

.

I'm thinking about it. If I do that, should I do it now fresh off a 16 week cycle of AAS? Or resume TRT and then try to come off with HCG /Clomid and possibly Nolvadex ? What would be a good plan?

**Bonaparte** · 01-14-2016, 03:07 PM

What lab did you use? The reference ranges are weird (700-900 for TT??) and there aren't any units of measure listed.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

What lab did you use? The reference ranges are weird (700-900 for TT??) and there aren't any units of measure listed.

Think it's labcorp or quest - need to get back home to check. This is just the summary table the doctor creates. The report is pretty comprehensive. I'll post it Tuesday when I get back. Thanks for your response - much appreciated.

**kelkel** · 01-14-2016, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

Makes sense. Even after coming off a 16-week cycle?

Yes. You're not jump-starting a car. You're on TRT. They're not going to fully function as if your own HPTA was working normally anyway.

**Bonaparte** · 01-14-2016, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

Think it's labcorp or quest - need to get back home to check. This is just the summary table the doctor creates. The report is pretty comprehensive. I'll post it Tuesday when I get back. Thanks for your response - much appreciated.

I don't trust the doctor's receptionist to properly transcribe that stuff.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Yes. You're not jump-starting a car. You're on TRT. They're not going to fully function as if your own HPTA was working normally anyway.

Kelkel - what do you think of trying to get myself off of TRT now to see if my body can produce its own test? How would I do that and what's he perfect time to do it?

**2Sox** · 01-14-2016, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

Kelkel - what do you think of trying to get myself off of TRT now to see if my body can produce its own test? How would I do that and what's he perfect time to do it?

IMO, I don't see the logic of trying to come off TRT. What would be the purpose? It would be scientifically impossible, no matter what you did, to ever get to youthful levels - especially with the background you described and your present age. - (IMO)

The T levels of most men begin to drop naturally after 40, without the type of abuse you've already done to your body in earlier years. In other words, if you came to this forum now, without having done steroids , you'd already likely be a candidate for TRT. Of course, there are exceptions.(A friend of mine from the gym is 82 and has natural TT levels in the high 500s. He never did steroids but was a heroin user in his youth.)

I'd simply advise you to continue with a conservative dose of T, use hCG at a dose of around 500iu/week - more or less, add and AI if necessary, relax and glide into what will be a very comfortable life on TRT.

**DGenRit** · 01-14-2016, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

IMO, I don't see the logic of trying to come off TRT. What would be the purpose? It would be scientifically impossible, no matter what you did, to ever get to youthful levels - especially with the background you described and your present age. - (IMO)

The T levels of most men begin to drop naturally after 40, without the type of abuse you've already done to your body in earlier years. In other words, if you came to this forum now, without having done steroids , you'd already likely be a candidate for TRT. Of course, there are exceptions.(A friend of mine from the gym is 82 and has natural TT levels in the high 500s. He never did steroids but was a heroin user in his youth.)

I'd simply advise you to continue with a conservative dose of T, use hCG at a dose of around 500iu/week - more or less, add and AI if necessary, relax and glide into what will be a very comfortable life on TRT.

2Sox - wow what a great response. You ask a good question. The reason for me is I guess to just simply know that I can -- as infantile as that sounds. Same reason I wont even consider a vasectomy.

Bottom line is you're right - there really is no good reason - unless I was afraid of needles which I'm clearly not. Thanks for the smack-down. I think you're right here. Btw - I didn't really abuse my Jody that much - just a touch

**Freemason** · 01-17-2016, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by DGenRit

Edit

Your HDL is dangerously low. TRT can affect HDL negatively while having a positive effect on LdL and Trig. But an HDL of 9 significantly increases your risk of Cardiovascular disease significantly. I would talk with your GP immediately about what u can do to increase it.

**DGenRit** · 01-17-2016, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Freemason

Your HDL is dangerously low. TRT can affect HDL negatively while having a positive effect on LdL and Trig. But an HDL of 9 significantly increases your risk of Cardiovascular disease significantly. I would talk with your GP immediately about what u can do to increase it.

Thanks for the response. That test is 9 years old. My HDL is right above the low end of the acceptable range. I have always suffered from low HDL - even as a teenager - but it's always right around the low end of the range. This result of 9 came out of nowhere... Luckily I'm not there now.