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  1. #1
    batoutofhell is offline New Member
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    Doing the self administered TRT thing

    Hi Guys,
    Just thought I'd introduce myself to this forum.

    I'm 45 y/o, 202lbs, 20% bf (according to cheapo scale). Had my hormone levels tested and my testosterone came back a little low.
    Testosterone-9.2 nmol/L,
    FSH-4 IU/L, LH-3 IU/L,
    Progesterone <1 nmol/L,
    Estradiol-94 nmol/L

    I have a physical job and have found that it's getting tougher to do the same work over the last couple of years. So I got my hormone levels tested. My doctor referred me to an endo and even though the result were on the lower end, they were still in the normal range so the endo said no to TRT. No problem then I'll take care of it myself. Just waiting on my order.

    I've got 5 cycles (the last 2 were homebrew) under my belt from my early to mid 30's.

    Probably going to cruse on 250mg/wk test-e.
    I've ordered Exemestane to use as my AI and Letrozole just in case of gino. I've just found out that Exemestane contributes to DHT related hair loss and since my hair is already thinning, I think that maybe the Letrozole might be my main AI now. Going to be doing a little more research. I live north of the 49th so unfortunately regular blood work will not be possible.

    Any advise will be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Chauffeur is offline Associate Member
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    For 99% of men, 250mg/week is going to be well above a true replacement dose. Most of us fall into the 100mg-200mg per week range. I'm not here to judge you on that, just trying to provide some perspective. 250mg/week is overkill for replacement of hormone levels if that's your goal.

    If possible, it's a better idea to avoid needing to use an AI at all. Keeping your testosterone dose down at a more reasonable level will decrease or eliminate the need for an AI.

    This becomes even more important in your situation since you don't have access to bloodwork...and even more so since you're planning on using Letrozole . It is the most powerful AI available, which isn't a good thing when the goal is moderate control of estradiol while on TRT type doses of testosterone.

    Even in extremely small doses, Letrozole can completely obliterate all of your body's estrogens. This is a very bad thing, as estrogens (especially estradiol) are essential for many important functions in males. If you drive your estradiol too low you'll be in a world of hurt...physically and mentally.

    It's just so difficult to dial in an effective dose of Letrozole without crushing your estrogens down to zero in the process.

    If you absolutely must use an AI, Aromasin or Arimidex would be safer options. But as with any AI, tread lightly. Start low and titrate up if needed. Aromatase inhibitors aren't exactly harmless drugs, so there's definitely potential to screw yourself up if you're not careful.

  3. #3
    batoutofhell is offline New Member
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    Just the kind of advise I'm looking for. Thanks Chauffeur.
    So on that advise I'll start my dose of test at 150mg/wk and see how that goes. Right now I'm not trying to bulk up, I just want to get some of the strength and endurance I had a few years ago back.

    I'm kind of expecting a bit of acne at the start until my body adjusts to the extra testosterone and kind of hoping to use this as part of my guide. If after 8 weeks I still have acne then maybe I'll drop my dose. Does this seem reasonable to you?

    As for deciding if the dose is too low I think I'll wait 16 weeks and see how I feel. Any opinions on this?

    I'd like to do it with minimum side effects, which does mean minimum doses of test.

    On the AI front I was originally planning on using Aromasin (Exemestane) and the Letrozol was just in case of gino. As seems to always happen, after I placed my order I found out that Aromasin contributes to hair loss. I'm going to research this a little more.
    Last edited by batoutofhell; 01-24-2016 at 11:54 AM.

  4. #4
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
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    Quote Originally Posted by batoutofhell View Post
    Just the kind of advise I'm looking for. Thanks Chauffeur.
    So on that advise I'll start my dose of test at 150mg/wk and see how that goes. Right now I'm not trying to bulk up, I just want to get some of the strength and endurance I had a few years ago back.

    I'm kind of expecting a bit of acne at the start until my body adjusts to the extra testosterone and kind of hoping to use this as part of my guide. If after 8 weeks I still have acne then maybe I'll drop my dose. Does this seem reasonable to you?

    As for deciding if the dose is too low I think I'll wait 12 weeks and see how I feel. Any opinions on this?

    I'd like to do it with minimum side effects, which does mean minimum doses of test.

    On the AI front I was originally planning on using Aromasin (Exemestane) and the Letrozol was just in case of gino. As seems to always happen, after I placed my order I found out that Aromasin contributes to hair loss. I'm going to research this a little more.
    No your AI use needs to be dialed in via blood work lots in the beginning to see how you aromatize your test to estrogen... At your bf% it will convert moreso to Estrogen at a more rapid pace... Only way of knowing is by BW... Going off gyno is a huge mistake... As its then too late and internally you still have no clue as to what's going on...

    Furthermore, letro is very harsh(and does not reverse gyno) only a SERM can do this and that's if you catch it in time... Now if you already had gyno then some use letro while cycling to keep it from flaring up but no need to run it during TRT... Stand is fine or dex would be better imo for TRT... Hope this helps and read as much as you can(the stickies here at the top of each forum section) GL

  5. #5
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Give us some ranges for the BW you posted. Also, do you have further BW you can post? Love to see if anything else may be suppressing your T levels other than simply aging.
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  6. #6
    bullshark99 is offline Member
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    Bat,

    150 is a good solid dose. I've been TRT for 5 plus yrs now, ran 200 per week for 4 yrs, dropped to 150 all is good. No sides, .5 mg of anastrozole the day after keeps my E2 around 20-24.
    Didn't see any mention of HcG ? May want to look into this....

  7. #7
    2Sox's Avatar
    2Sox is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Give us some ranges for the BW you posted. Also, do you have further BW you can post? Love to see if anything else may be suppressing your T levels other than simply aging.
    Important statements.

    My advice: See a doctor who knows TRT and do things right. In my opinion, self treating by itself is a poor choice. When you start adding "home-brew" or UG stuff into the mix, it becomes reckless.

  8. #8
    bigdil511 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sox
    Important statements. My advice: See a doctor who knows TRT and do things right. In my opinion, self treating by itself is a poor choice. When you start adding "home-brew" or UG stuff into the mix, it becomes reckless.
    Totally agree, and it seems like your guessing on dosage and ai. This sh1t needs to be dialed in from blood work. Find a different Doctor.

  9. #9
    batoutofhell is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Give us some ranges for the BW you posted. Also, do you have further BW you can post? Love to see if anything else may be suppressing your T levels other than simply aging.
    Hi kelkel,
    Sure, I'll put the ranges in brackets. Here's everything that was tested:

    GLUCOSE-FASTING 4.8 mmol/L (3.6-6.0)
    TESTOSTERONE 9.2 mmol/L (8.4-28.8)
    FOLLITROPIN (FSH) 4 IU/L (2-8)
    LUTROPIN (LH) 3 IU/L (2-6)
    PROGESTERONE <1 nmol/L (<4)
    ESTRADIAL-17 BETA 94 pmol/L (<150)
    CORTISOL 213 nmol/L (170-720)
    ADRENOCORTICOTROPIC HORMONE 5.9 pmol/L (<14.0)

    That's everything that they tested. I haven't had any other tests done before. Looking forward to your thoughts.

  10. #10
    batoutofhell is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullshark99 View Post
    Bat,

    150 is a good solid dose. I've been TRT for 5 plus yrs now, ran 200 per week for 4 yrs, dropped to 150 all is good. No sides, .5 mg of anastrozole the day after keeps my E2 around 20-24.
    Didn't see any mention of HcG? May want to look into this....
    Just got home for the weekend and I'm going to be looking into getting HgC and maybe some anastrozole. Happily, when I got home my order came in. I'll be looking at getting everything tested before I start, just so I'm sure of the purity.

  11. #11
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Ok, your LH is at the low end, thus your T is low. Not a strong enough signal downstream. Only other things that could be suppressing it would be thyroid issues. Hypothyroid will cause hypogonadism. I don't see the need to consider pathologies or trauma unless you know otherwise. If everything is ruled out then odds are it's just age related. If that's the case then I'd refer you back to post #2 by Chauffeur. Well written and on-point.
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  12. #12
    batoutofhell is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Sox View Post
    Important statements.

    My advice: See a doctor who knows TRT and do things right. In my opinion, self treating by itself is a poor choice. When you start adding "home-brew" or UG stuff into the mix, it becomes reckless.
    Finding a TRT doctor would be the thing if it was possible. I live in a small northern community with a doctor shortage. I'm a 6 hour drive from any large city so this really isn't an option for me.

  13. #13
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Actually, many doc's now require only one physical appt. After than they can be virtual.
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  14. #14
    batoutofhell is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Ok, your LH is at the low end, thus your T is low. Not a strong enough signal downstream. Only other things that could be suppressing it would be thyroid issues. Hypothyroid will cause hypogonadism. I don't see the need to consider pathologies or trauma unless you know otherwise. If everything is ruled out then odds are it's just age related. If that's the case then I'd refer you back to post #2 by Chauffeur. Well written and on-point.
    Thanks kelkel. I appreciate the feedback and agree about Chauffeur's post.

  15. #15
    batoutofhell is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Actually, many doc's now require only one physical appt. After than they can be virtual.
    That is something I might look into. Thing is I don't want to piss off my family doctor. When I asked him about testing my testosterone levels I got the feeling that doesn't really agree with testosterone treatment. He did refer me to an endocrinologist, but he said I'm in the normal range. Some will say that I should just get a new family doctor, but there is 2 problems with that; 1- we have a shortage of doctors here. 2- with the exception of this one thing he's been a great doctor. I really like the guy and he is very knowledgeable. I'm lucky to have him, especially compared to some of the doctors my buddies have.

  16. #16
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Totally understand the family doc thing as I went through it as well. Mine just couldn't handle my questions and referred me to an endo, who ended up being horrible. Eventually landed with a Uro who is great.
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