Results 1 to 12 of 12
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By Chauffeur
  • 1 Post By kelkel

Thread: Funny/Interesting TRT cases.

  1. #1
    Dj Screw is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    238

    Funny/Interesting TRT cases.

    I am a member of another TRT forum and a Dr. posted this there and I wanted to share it with you guys:


    Wanted to share an interesting case with the community. I thought that, at this point, I had seen and heard it all...the cases of a guy mistakenly receiving estradiol cypionate from his local compounding pharmacy instead of T cypionate (this has happened TWICE in patients that came over to me from other clinics...part of the reason we only work with trusted compounding pharmacies)...the cases of a husband (not a patient of mine) mixing testosterone into his wife's B12 injections (without her knowledge or consent) and the wife finding out the hard way by becoming my patient and confirming significantly elevated T levels (and then confirming, under my direction, that there was indeed a separation of oil/water when he tried administering her next injection...THAT was an interesting conference call! Clearly some very interesting and crazy stuff, fellas, but today was another first.

    Obviously not disclosing any identifying information to maintain HIPPA compliance, but I'll supply enough info to appreciate the uniqueness of the situation. Male patient in his 50's, not on TRT, presented with classic hypogonadal symptoms. Initial blood work confirmed very low testosterone levels (113 ng/dL). Not surprising given the classic constellation of symptoms he was experiencing. What WAS interesting was the fact that his LH level was suppressed (0.1). Most on this forum are aware this means the patient's hypothalamus/pituitary is suppressed, most commonly from use of TRT or AAS (or other pathology - prolactinoma, certain drugs/meds, etc). Now upon THOROUGH discussion the patient was ADAMANT that he had not used any testosterone products, any AAS, and any prohormones. As always, I made it abundantly clear that it would logically explain his lab results if he had been using any of these products and, consequently, would behoove him and save him from additional testing if he had used these products to fess up, but he assured me that was not the case (and I had confidence he was being honest).

    He was taking a few supplements (a " male enhancement supplement" - basically a nitric oxide supplement, tribulus, etc) - I knew these weren't a contributing factor, but had him stop taking them temporarily just to remove it as a possibility and decided to check his levels again after stopping EVERYTHING for 2 weeks.

    Lab work a few weeks later shows the plot had thickened. Prolactin was normal - good, no prolactinoma. Total T now ELEVATED at 1300 with LH suppressed at 0.1...okay clearly something was going on. Repeat consult with patient uncovered what was going on in this case. The patient had been receiving a series of cortisone injections for a painful joint (shoulder, I believe, don't recall exactly). Interestingly he remembers his physical therapist mentioning he was adding something to the joint injections to "help with healing". The patient had his most recent labs drawn (showing total T 1300) only 3 days after receiving one of his joint injections. Upon suspicion after our discussion regarding his peculiar lab results, the patient inquired with his therapist about what exactly he was "adding to the injection to help with healing"...turns out the therapist was adding NANDROLONE (DECA ) to the patients cortisone joint injections unbeknownst to the patient and without consent! Obviously the patient is now, at a minimum, firing the therapist and has discontinued the injections and now we can work on obtaining his true baseline levels and, if appropriate, treating him.

    Perhaps now I have seen/heard everything...until next week! Be careful with those physical therapists and cortisone injections fellas.

  2. #2
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is online now AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    23,698
    The nandrolone showed up as an elevated T level?
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  3. #3
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is online now AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    23,698
    I had read somewhere it depended if it was ECLIA ( electrochemiluminescence method) vs. LS/MSMS (tandem mass spectrometry testing), but never ran across a definitive article on the subject?
    Last edited by almostgone; 01-29-2016 at 05:01 AM.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  4. #4
    krugerr's Avatar
    krugerr is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    UK (Nr London)
    Posts
    3,902
    Interesting read!
    Learn from that though, the Dr won't forget this case anytime soon. Lol

    Sent from my iPhone using App

  5. #5
    Chauffeur is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    I had read somewhere it depended if it was ECLIA ( electrochemiluminescence method) vs. LS/MSMS (tandem mass spectrometry testing), but never ran across a definitive article on the subject?


    Page 7.

    http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_d...ws/k093421.pdf
    almostgone likes this.

  6. #6
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is online now AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    23,698
    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffeur View Post
    Thanks, Chauffeur. That's a solid reference! So it is the ECLIA form of testing that is the culprit. I'm thinking Labcorp uses LS/MSMS, but I need to verify that (have been throwing a little Deca in for joint pain and don't want to screw up my TRT labs later this spring).
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  7. #7
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    29,578

  8. #8
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is online now AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    23,698
    Thank you, sir! Deca use shall be continued.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  9. #9
    Chauffeur is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    Thanks, Chauffeur. That's a solid reference! So it is the ECLIA form of testing that is the culprit. I'm thinking Labcorp uses LS/MSMS, but I need to verify that (have been throwing a little Deca in for joint pain and don't want to screw up my TRT labs later this spring).

    Labcorp offers ECLIA and LC-MS/MS versions of their testosterone and estradiol tests.

  10. #10
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is online now AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    23,698
    Hmm, I looked on the Labcorp site for Total T, and all I saw was Testosterone , Total, Women, Children, and Hypogonadal Males, LC/MS-MS.
    I'll look again. Maybe I overlooked it. The only total T I saw was code 070001.

    Edit: Ah, I see it now. I'll check my records to male sure my Dr. uses 070001. I'm almost positive she does. Below is the info I saw on ECLIA testing and the code number.


    What is the test number for the mass spec assay?
    The test number for the mass spectrometry assay for women,
    children, or hypogonadal men is 070001. An ECLIA assay (test
    number 004226) is also available for use with screening adult men.
    Last edited by almostgone; 01-29-2016 at 10:48 PM.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  11. #11
    kuad is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    sobe
    Posts
    974
    Very interesting.

  12. #12
    Charlie6's Avatar
    Charlie6 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Mid West
    Posts
    1,233
    I agree...I almost had a scare because I'm new to HRT but I've been adding a little Deca with my last two shots for joint help. I have to get bw done in a week and a half and I was worried that my doc would use the ECLIA test (since her very first initial test which was bioavail/total/free/shgb DID use ECLIA methodology).

    However, I called the lab just now and asked the secretary and she said the test next week will be the free and total only with LC-MS/MS methodology. Huge relief. I almost had to email my doc to ask her to switch tests since "my preworkout and/or ADD meds may interfere with the test." That would have been awkward to justify.

    Let's spread the word about this issue lol

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •