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Thread: Need advice on Test C cycle and AI/SERM

  1. #1
    Harley71 is offline New Member
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    Need advice on Test C cycle and AI/SERM

    62 yrs, gym rat, diagnosed Low T for 10+ years at 50 ng/dl. Have been using Androgel per urologist with poor Total Serum Test lab results. That got me nowhere. Done with that and those overcharges and office visits.
    Started IM injections of Test C in January. Now into 12th week. Current Total Testosterone lab result are 1200 ng/dl. Overall improvement in gym and muscle mass gain look good. I'm concerned about a need for AI or SERMs going forward. I do not have plans to come off this cycle, although I could reduce the dosage if necessary. Currently at 500 mg/ 250mg twice per week. Any help or advice will be appreciated.

  2. #2
    PersuAsian's Avatar
    PersuAsian is offline New Member
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    Man that seems like a really high dose and if that is a trough level reading it is high as well. Do you have other lab work? If not I would probably get a CBC, Free and Total T, as well as a sensitive Estradiol test. I'm thinking that you probably will need an AI at the dose you are at, but you may be able to just lower it to more of a "replacement" dose and not have a need at all. There is no point in adding compounds if you don't need them. Blood work will tell you.

  3. #3
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Harley you're running 500 mgs per week and only tested at 1200?
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  4. #4
    bobtail is offline Associate Member
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    I don't know anybody who has run that much indefinitely. It will be interesting to see what happens.
    For sure your rbc is going to climb and your HDL is going to tank.
    Keep us posted!

  5. #5
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    Rusty11 is offline Senior Member
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    Along with everyone else's questions/concerns...did you check anything besides total T? Look, we're older (I'm 54) and things like cbc, e2, cholesterol are extremely important to keep in check. Your hct could be thru the roif, your e2 could be extremely high which might explain why your total t is ONLY at 1200 on such a high dose of weekly T(or you could just be injecting an underdosed ugl) and/or your cholesterol numbers could be really bad. IMO, for myself, these numbers are even more important than my total t (which is around 700 on 100 mg per week). You say that you have no plans to come off this cycle...you should think long and hard about this. Just my opinion.
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  6. #6
    Harley71 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PersuAsian View Post
    Man that seems like a really high dose and if that is a trough level reading it is high as well. Do you have other lab work? If not I would probably get a CBC, Free and Total T, as well as a sensitive Estradiol test. I'm thinking that you probably will need an AI at the dose you are at, but you may be able to just lower it to more of a "replacement" dose and not have a need at all. There is no point in adding compounds if you don't need them. Blood work will tell you.
    My physician started me on the Test C in January after a complete work up and all blood test. The only lab results out of range was the Total Test. The recommended dosage he initiated was 200 mg twice per week. I assumed this to be a maintenance dose that would be ongoing. Unfortunately weekly visits to his office for the injections became cost prohibitive; and, I took over self injections at 250 mg twice per week. At that time I repeated the Total T blood work and it was in the 1200 range.

    I am seeking enhancement and performance results and would like to put on more muscle. From what I have read I thought a 400-800 mg dosage per week was the norm. Correct me if I am wrong...

    I have not followed up with any additional blood work in the last 6 weeks although could if necessary. The suggestions on this thread lead me to reduce the dosage. I will move in that direction. Again thanks for all your responses, help, and suggestions

  7. #7
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Any physician who puts a patient on 400 mgs per week has no clue about hormones. None.
    Enhancement is what we all seek and you can make incredible gains just with optimized hormones with a properly run replacement protocol. Think long term.
    Then you can easily throw in a couple cycles a year at increased levels.
    Get some blood work done. You need to know what's going on inside of you.
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  8. #8
    Harley71 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Any physician who puts a patient on 400 mgs per week has no clue about hormones. None.
    Enhancement is what we all seek and you can make incredible gains just with optimized hormones with a properly run replacement protocol. Think long term.
    Then you can easily throw in a couple cycles a year at increased levels.
    Get some blood work done. You need to know what's going on inside of you.
    Thanks for all your help and concerns. I had a complete blood profile run in January with Tot T being low, all else within normal limits. Started the Test C shortly there after and have only ran the Tot T at week 6. I will cut the dosage to 200 mg per week and get a full blood work up in two weeks. Does this sound like a reasonable course of action. Please advise.

  9. #9
    Harley71 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty11 View Post
    Along with everyone else's questions/concerns...did you check anything besides total T? Look, we're older (I'm 54) and things like cbc, e2, cholesterol are extremely important to keep in check. Your hct could be thru the roif, your e2 could be extremely high which might explain why your total t is ONLY at 1200 on such a high dose of weekly T(or you could just be injecting an underdosed ugl) and/or your cholesterol numbers could be really bad. IMO, for myself, these numbers are even more important than my total t (which is around 700 on 100 mg per week). You say that you have no plans to come off this cycle...you should think long and hard about this. Just my opinion.
    I'm certainly interested in establishing a maintenance dosage for future reference. I didn't know 200mg twice per week was unusual given my Total Test was 51 last January. As such, it did not alarm me when my General Practice (MD) recommended that dosage. He was concerned that my Total Testosterone level was as low as he had seen. Is 100mg per week yielding a 700 total test level based on a higher baseline than what I tested back in January? I've halved the dosage discussed in my prior thread and will follow up with additional blood work. Any further suggestion by the folks here are welcomed. I'm planning a TRT Blood Test Panel when things have settled a bit at the lower dosage. This Panel will include:
    CBC, PSA, Testosterone (Free Direct with Total). Are there other test that would have importance at this time? Thanks in advance!
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  10. #10
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    The number you were at prior (51) is irrelevant as once you replace it with exogenous test your endogenous production shuts down. It would shut down no matter what your total T level was based on your HPTA's feedback mechanism. 51 is exceptionally low and I would hope your doctor dug a bit deeper to find the cause. I do understand where you're coming from as I've been there as well.

    Take a look at the Finding A Doc sticky at the top of this forum as use the second set of BW in it if you can.
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  11. #11
    Rusty11's Avatar
    Rusty11 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harley71 View Post
    I'm certainly interested in establishing a maintenance dosage for future reference. I didn't know 200mg twice per week was unusual given my Total Test was 51 last January. As such, it did not alarm me when my General Practice (MD) recommended that dosage. He was concerned that my Total Testosterone level was as low as he had seen. Is 100mg per week yielding a 700 total test level based on a higher baseline than what I tested back in January? I've halved the dosage discussed in my prior thread and will follow up with additional blood work. Any further suggestion by the folks here are welcomed. I'm planning a TRT Blood Test Panel when things have settled a bit at the lower dosage. This Panel will include:
    CBC, PSA, Testosterone (Free Direct with Total). Are there other test that would have importance at this time? Thanks in advance!
    Great to hear you are getting that blood work done. Like Kel stated, baseline isn't all that important, but at 49, prior to starting TRT, my baseline was 250.

  12. #12
    Harley71 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    The number you were at prior (51) is irrelevant as once you replace it with exogenous test your endogenous production shuts down. It would shut down no matter what your total T level was based on your HPTA's feedback mechanism. 51 is exceptionally low and I would hope your doctor dug a bit deeper to find the cause. I do understand where you're coming from as I've been there as well.

    Take a look at the Finding A Doc sticky at the top of this forum as use the second set of BW in it if you can.
    Read the sticky, Great Advice and info Kelkel!

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