Lackluster early results from TRT

**Jonnycatz** · 09-13-2016, 06:51 PM

Hi Guys. Quick introduction. 42 year old, 6'3" 193#. Athletic all my life but always a skinny guy. I had been strongly feeling several symptoms of low T over last few years to the point of zero libido, erection issues, very little gains from weight lifting, and low sense of well being. I will also make it known that i am a moderate alcoholic that drinks an average of 6 beers a day for last 20 years. Have reduced this to 4 max/day and working to quit entirely. Went to clinic in July to have levels checked. Total testosterone came back at (192) on 348-1197 scale. Was put on 150mg wk of Cypionate .
I decided to go with SubQ shots twice a week. Did not take any of the Anastrozole they gave (they recommended 1mg week). I began a little lower than prescribed, at 130mg (2 X 65mg) weekly. Was expecting to feel something by 3rd or 4th week but noticed no effects. Went in for follow up bloods after 6 weeks. Total test came back at 705 (five days after pin of 70mg, normally 4 days is max that i go). Estradiol was at 42 on a 7.6−42.6 pg/mL scale which was not the sensitive test. They have not tested free testosterone.
Only difference i can tell is mild erections at middle of night only. No noticeable increase in libido or erections during the daytime. Zero increase in feeling of well being. No noticeable strength increase in any lifts. I have gained 3 lbs. The doctor told me to try 200mg a week and to start the Anastrozole. I expected some big changes quickly seeing how low i was before starting. I plan to get my own blood test very soon for "free testosterone", as the total testosterone was good at 705 and that was my expected low point during the week. Also my bloods show that i have a high MCV and MCH. I could be B12 and Folate deficient.
I will start doing 160-170mg a week and add the AI at 0.25mg twice a week. I'm seven weeks in now and far from impressed. Is this normal this far in? Really hoping to see the purported benefits of TRT soon.

**kelkel** · 09-13-2016, 08:53 PM

Jonny I'd seriously stay the course right now and be patient. It's not a cycle and you won't always feel the effects that quickly. It can take months sometimes to see and feel a difference, but you will! Total T at 705 5 days after your shot is just fine. I would not worry about estradiol just now but definitely try to get the sensitive assay next time as you know.

I think you were smart in starting lower and if your FT comes in near the top of the range next time it will prove you correct. No need to rush it, just be patient. It's obvious you've done some homework so hang in there. I really don't think adding more right now is the answer. I'd bet time is all you need.

Keep this thread going with updates please!

**Jonnycatz** · 09-13-2016, 09:47 PM

Thanks for your response Kelkel. Hope you are right. I'll probably hover around 150mg a week then for a few weeks and hold off on AI since i have zero on the usual symptoms of high estrogen. Almost feels like i have no testosterone receptors in my cells right now, or a shit ton of SHBG, lol.

**kelkel** · 09-14-2016, 10:07 AM

Patience Jonny. You'll see results. Don't keep making changes unless it's based on BW.

**macmathews** · 09-14-2016, 12:37 PM

While I am certainly no resident Expert.. See Kelkel

I was thinking exactly what he stated.. I'd even leave the Cyp dose the same..

**Mr.BB** · 09-14-2016, 03:06 PM

It will work faster once you quit drinking, alcohol helps T aromatize to estrogen.

You need to work to zero, not 6 to 4.... And its not really hard work, you just stop, period.

**Jonnycatz** · 09-14-2016, 05:48 PM

Cool and thanks for input everyone. Guess i will give it another 2-3 months before i make a big change. I will update this post every couple weeks or if i start noticing anything drastic.

**almostgone** · 09-14-2016, 08:42 PM

As the others stated, hang in there. When I went from 200mg every 2 weeks to weekly injections of 100mg/week, I was questioning the dosage for the first couple of months, but after that, things have been slowly feeling more "right".
I still may end up splitting my injections in half and injecting 2x/ week, but am waiting on my next labs at the end of Sept./first of October.

**Simon1972** · 09-15-2016, 03:22 AM

https://www.nebido.com/tools/index.p...x/effects-tool

you need to click on this link and play around. You need to accept that change takes time and every day you are slowly rebuilding your body, you will learn to take note of the subtle effects.

one day , after a year on trt, you will notice how the depressed state you were in once has subdued, im nearly two years in, and only recently noticed i hadnt been sick in all that time- again its stuff like that - and the slow increase in muscle definition that comes along with it- practice patience and respect yourself- drop the alcohol.

**Jersey_DBO** · 09-15-2016, 08:57 AM

Yes it takes time. I have been on for over a year and the biggest factors for me were getting the Estrogen at the right level. This is for me the number one factor in how you feel. When this is right, your libido, erections, mood will all come together. You are at the high end and I would get the sensitive test and if still high try very small doses of arimidex . I notice the effects so quickly when I take it. Also do you take hcg ? I started that after 10 months and that has helped as well. Try zinc and DIM supplements to help with Estrogen naturally as well. At some point you will realize you just have more energy and desire to do things including work out. I was a heavy drinker also which probably created the problem. Once you get on track and are working out you won't feel like drinking as much because your body will start improving and mental state will too. Good luck!

**Proximal** · 09-15-2016, 06:17 PM

Hey Jonny, welcome.

I think you are definitely on the right track - give it more time, you will be happy. Started TRT at the age of 57, have been on one year now, my TRT dosage is 150 mg./wk.

Personal connection here, I never have stopped my alcohol and have continued to make good progress (gaining muscle and losing fat). I am not trying to condone or encourage your habit, but know how difficult it is to stop. I'm a wine drinker myself, only at night, but quite a bit.

If you aren't going to quit, make sure the rest of your diet is as clean as can be and simply don't cheat (perhaps thats how I make progress). Regarding aromatization, thats what the BW is for and the AI - however there is always the liver issue and that one is something you will have to deal with, hopefully much later, rather than sooner (however there is BW for that as well).

Despite my gains and improved state of mind, I in no way lost the desire to drink. As Sean Penn once said (I'm paraphrasing and going from memory) "I'm not an alcoholic, I just like to drink a lot".

Best wishes man!

**E5Charlie** · 09-16-2016, 04:48 AM

I also am taking less test than my doctor prescribed. We started off at 200mg cyp every 2 weeks, but after a few weeks of reading these forums I suggested to him that maybe I should inject weekly. He was cool about it and he agreed. We adjusted dose based on how I felt, not blood work, and he suggested 150mg a week. Upon further research on these forums I decided to only inject 100mg cyp a week, and my blood work is great at that dose, 800-900 tt 3 days after injection. After a few years on trt I have saved up 45 200mg/ml vials of pharm grade test cyp for when I do my 1st blast. These forums have great advice. More isn't always better.

**Jonnycatz** · 09-16-2016, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by E5Charlie

I also am taking less test than my doctor prescribed. We started off at 200mg cyp every 2 weeks, but after a few weeks of reading these forums I suggested to him that maybe I should inject weekly. He was cool about it and he agreed. We adjusted dose based on how I felt, not blood work, and he suggested 150mg a week. Upon further research on these forums I decided to only inject 100mg cyp a week, and my blood work is great at that dose, 800-900 tt 3 days after injection. After a few years on trt I have saved up 45 200mg/ml vials of pharm grade test cyp for when I do my 1st blast. These forums have great advice. More isn't always better.

45 Vials!!! Lol, guess you mean 4-5. After reading many of these replies, I feel like 150mg a week is as high as ill go for the time being. As a benefit, ill be able to save a vial or two myself. I've been thinking about blasting at some point too, but im not going to do that until i really feel my body responding strongly to it. I started 0.25mg Anastrozole 3 days ago and plan to do it twice a week for a month at least. I'll see how that goes and redo bloods and adjust if no significant change. Good erections last night sleeping and a mild one upon waking. Seems like in the past the strongest ones were immediately when i awoke. I don't recall being awoken at 3ish AM by raging hard ons like im getting now, still not getting them through the day while awake though.

**kelkel** · 09-16-2016, 09:15 AM

Jonny do not judge the success of your TRT protocol by the amount of erections. It doesn't work that way. Far too many things factor in, even though most of our life seems to revolve around them! As long as it stands up when it counts is all that matters.

**E5Charlie** · 09-16-2016, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jonnycatz

45 Vials!!! Lol, guess you mean 4-5. After reading many of these replies, I feel like 150mg a week is as high as ill go for the time being. As a benefit, ill be able to save a vial or two myself. I've been thinking about blasting at some point too, but im not going to do that until i really feel my body responding strongly to it. I started 0.25mg Anastrozole 3 days ago and plan to do it twice a week for a month at least. I'll see how that goes and redo bloods and adjust if no significant change. Good erections last night sleeping and a mild one upon waking. Seems like in the past the strongest ones were immediately when i awoke. I don't recall being awoken at 3ish AM by raging hard ons like im getting now, still not getting them through the day while awake though.

No, I don't mean 4-5...I mean 45! I get prescribed 4 200mg/ml vials a month, and I'm supposed to take .75 ml, (150 mg) a week and I'm supposed to throw out the extra .25ml (50mg). However, I only take 100 mg (.5 ml) so 1 vial lasts me 2 weeks. I save 2 vials a month, and I've been doing this for over 2 years. I haven't counted them lately, I might even have more than 45 Watson depo-test vials. Can't wait till my 1st blast!

**Jonnycatz** · 09-16-2016, 02:55 PM

My bad. I just forgot that 10ml vials aren't the only sizes in existence and forgot about the 1 ml ampules. I was thinking "damn", 45 (10ml) vials.

**JKW** · 09-16-2016, 08:20 PM

Kel is right. Have patience. I don't recall feeling like superman when I first started but as time went on I noticed gains in how I looked and felt. Erections happened at night like you said but I didn't get them during the day unless the time came to perform. But I did have a greater urge for sex during the day. Sometimes that's all I thought about, but that may have been due to me being 55 and my testosterone level back up to teenage ammounts which probably hadn't been to that level in a loooong time. Keep us updated bro.

**Chicagotarsier** · 09-17-2016, 04:12 AM

1. TrT/HrT is a journey, not a sprint. It was 8 months before I saw results and 2 years when all the bells and whistles turned on.

2. Sexuality was up and down for me until Cialis and metformin entered the picture. As my pal says...afterward it was straight bonertown.

Good luck though. It was aggravating till I found my answer.

**75 Dogs** · 09-19-2016, 10:46 AM

41, 6'4", 205lbs right now...I've been on TRT for about 2 1/2 years (gel for almost all the first year which did absolutely nothing).

Let me tell you, I can relate to so much of what you stated. Athletic and skinny all my life, started not being able to lose fat or gain muscle, started having the negative feelings you had and more. I went from being able to have sex 3-5 times a night on alcohol (ejaculation every time) to not being able to get it up dead sober if you put a gun to my head. Night sweats, low libido....all of it. Honestly I couldn't even jack off.

It has taken a long time to get back to passable and I don't know if I'll ever have the sexual function I used to have. When you look at a chart of the TRT Benefits Timeline (you can Google it), it says sexual interest starts to appear 3 weeks in and maximum benefit is 6 weeks. It took me a hell of a lot longer than that. Erectile function starts to return 12 weeks and maxes out 26 weeks. Even on that front it was over a year before I started getting the occasional night time erection. The first one was so hard, and it had been so long, I couldn't believe a penis could be that solid anymore!

Anyway, let me sum up this portion of it. It can take a loooong time for this stuff to kick in. For me it was over a year and I kind of gave up and just stuck to the plan once my blood work was all good, so the process was so gradual I can't pinpoint an exact turnaround date.

But like someone else mentioned above, there are a lot of things going on that have to be fine tuned. You can get your testosterone in check, but then find your estrogen levels are jacked. Many people ignore this, but it can be just as likely to give you negative functioning as testosterone. I barely had any measurable estrogen levels, and then they were too high. In both cases, the side effects were the same for me. Night sweats, no libido, erectile dysfunction, etc. When I finally got the sweet middle-spot, I started being able to recover.

And then you may have other factors that need to be adjusted once all that stuff is right, like deficiencies you mentioned. So my advice is hang in there and stick to a treatment (not changing it every few weeks), waiting for your doctor's advice on adjustments after you get blood work back and discussing how you feel. Unfortunately you have to stick with a plan for a few months at a time to see how it works. A long, slow process but worth it in the end.