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Thread: Super High Test Levels at 100mg/Week

  1. #1
    kaime is offline New Member
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    Super High Test Levels at 100mg/Week

    Diagnosed with hypogonadism. Started at 100mg enanthate E7D. After 5 weeks my results are as follow:

    Test - 22.40 ng/ml (2.2-9.8 range)
    E2 - 54.75 pg/ml (8-36 range)

    So my testosterone levels are over twice as normal range only at 100mg weekly. Considering 100-150mg will put most people in their normal range, how come my results are so high? Also I don't feel any different than I was a month ago at very low T. I know Estradiol is also elevated, but my mood, libido and everything else is exactly as it was.

    What advice would you give me? My next doctor appointment is scheduled in 2 months sadly. I was considering lowering the dose to 50mg/week and see how it goes. Also no AI or SERMs at that stage. E2 should lower along with testosterone on it's own.

    My blood work before TRT Super High Test Levels at 100mg/Week-hitili6.jpg

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    You need to draw the blood just before next injection, in your case 7 days after shot.
    This will give you the lowest value of the injection protocol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    You need to draw the blood just before next injection, in your case 7 days after shot.
    This will give you the lowest value of the injection protocol.
    This is your 'trough' reading as BB explained - take it the day b4 your next inj of 100mg/wk.... and you'll know -

    Do you need an AI on 100mgs/wk on your regular protocol? hCG included or r u taking it?

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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Agree with previous posts, you should always test just before the scheduled next injection to get comparable results. A couple things come to mind.

    1) Consider breaking the dose up into smaller more frequent doses. I'm a big fan of E3D dosing. Some Guys like the MWF schedule. The goal hear is to keep T in physiological range and that may help lower conversion to E and bring that closer to being within range.

    2) Have your SHBG and Free (or bioavailable) T checked. If you have high SHBG, it acts to protect both T and E from liver metabolism, so your TT will increase greater than is does for a guy with normal levels of SHBG. however, this does not mean that you will receive the benefits of TRT at a higher level because most of it is bound and unavailable.

    Here's a real world example of the "SHBG Effect.

    Prior to TRT, my TT ranged from 481 to 618 ng/dL (N. range 348-1197), which my most standard is pretty good. However, my SHBG consistently is around 60 to 70 pf/mL (N. range 17.3-65.8). This causes very low Free T. Before TRT, my Free T was 7.1 pg/mL (N. range 7.2-24). Going on TRT, my normal protocol eventually settled on 0.2 mL of a compounded 180/20 mg/mL T-Cyp/T-Prop E3D. For simplicity sake, lets say this is equivalent to you 200 mg/mL T-Eth. That means 40 mg E3D = about 93 mg weekly (pretty close to what you are doing).

    After TRT, my TT rose to between 1000 to 1400 ng/dL (numerous tests over the past 4+ years). My Free T was typically in the 13 to 16 pg/mL range, which could best be described as "adequate" but not ideal, even though my TT was very high. This is because SHBG was sucking it up and protecting it from metabolism.

    Over the past year or so, I've been experimenting with various doses of oral Winstrol (Stanozolol ). It's an anabolic hormone that isn't used much by bodybuilders anymore because it tends to have hepatotoxicity side effects at the doses bodybuilders need for an anabolic effect. However, the (synthetic) hormone has a unique ability to suppress SHBG production much more than is normally observer with other androgens. I found that at very low doses (5 to 15 mg/day), I could suppress my SHBG into the normal range and greatly increase my Free T without changing my T dose. I've settled on 10 mg per day (5 mg AM and 5 mg PM) as the optimum dose and in my last 2 labs (5 and 1 month ago), my SHBG was 27.2 and 27.0 (about perfect) and my Free T was 27.8 and 20.8 (again, about perfect). The more interesting lab was my Total T. Without changing my T dose, my TT dropped from the prior 1000 to 1400 range to 887 and 632 in these last two labs.

    I believe what is happening is that by driving down SHBG production, more T is bioavailable and gets metabolized more quickly, thus lowering the TT in the labs. Oh, BTW, in these last two sets of labs, my liver enzymes (AST, ALT, & Alk Phos) were ever so slightly elevated (AST & ALT) 5 months ago and normal 1 month ago, so there does not appear to be any hepatotoxicity at this low dose of Winstrol (stanozolol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    Agree with previous posts, you should always test just before the scheduled next injection to get comparable results. A couple things come to mind.

    1) Consider breaking the dose up into smaller more frequent doses. I'm a big fan of E3D dosing. Some Guys like the MWF schedule. The goal hear is to keep T in physiological range and that may help lower conversion to E and bring that closer to being within range.

    2) Have your SHBG and Free (or bioavailable) T checked. If you have high SHBG, it acts to protect both T and E from liver metabolism, so your TT will increase greater than is does for a guy with normal levels of SHBG. however, this does not mean that you will receive the benefits of TRT at a higher level because most of it is bound and unavailable.

    Here's a real world example of the "SHBG Effect.

    Prior to TRT, my TT ranged from 481 to 618 ng/dL (N. range 348-1197), which my most standard is pretty good. However, my SHBG consistently is around 60 to 70 pf/mL (N. range 17.3-65.8). This causes very low Free T. Before TRT, my Free T was 7.1 pg/mL (N. range 7.2-24). Going on TRT, my normal protocol eventually settled on 0.2 mL of a compounded 180/20 mg/mL T-Cyp/T-Prop E3D. For simplicity sake, lets say this is equivalent to you 200 mg/mL T-Eth. That means 40 mg E3D = about 93 mg weekly (pretty close to what you are doing).

    After TRT, my TT rose to between 1000 to 1400 ng/dL (numerous tests over the past 4+ years). My Free T was typically in the 13 to 16 pg/mL range, which could best be described as "adequate" but not ideal, even though my TT was very high. This is because SHBG was sucking it up and protecting it from metabolism.

    Over the past year or so, I've been experimenting with various doses of oral Winstrol (Stanozolol ). It's an anabolic hormone that isn't used much by bodybuilders anymore because it tends to have hepatotoxicity side effects at the doses bodybuilders need for an anabolic effect. However, the (synthetic) hormone has a unique ability to suppress SHBG production much more than is normally observer with other androgens. I found that at very low doses (5 to 15 mg/day), I could suppress my SHBG into the normal range and greatly increase my Free T without changing my T dose. I've settled on 10 mg per day (5 mg AM and 5 mg PM) as the optimum dose and in my last 2 labs (5 and 1 month ago), my SHBG was 27.2 and 27.0 (about perfect) and my Free T was 27.8 and 20.8 (again, about perfect). The more interesting lab was my Total T. Without changing my T dose, my TT dropped from the prior 1000 to 1400 range to 887 and 632 in these last two labs.

    I believe what is happening is that by driving down SHBG production, more T is bioavailable and gets metabolized more quickly, thus lowering the TT in the labs. Oh, BTW, in these last two sets of labs, my liver enzymes (AST, ALT, & Alk Phos) were ever so slightly elevated (AST & ALT) 5 months ago and normal 1 month ago, so there does not appear to be any hepatotoxicity at this low dose of Winstrol (stanozolol).
    Just wanted to say you should look into proviron for lowering shbg. I believe it lowers shbg much better then winstrol and is much less toxic.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael30 View Post
    Just wanted to say you should look into proviron for lowering shbg. I believe it lowers shbg much better then winstrol and is much less toxic.
    Proviron won't affect SHBG much than exogenous T already is. Winstrol is extremely effective at lowering SHBG. According to research, 10mg daily is proven not to impact liver readings in the long term and reduce SHBG by 50% in less than a week.

    Only more toxic orals can achieve better results than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    Over the past year or so, I've been experimenting with various doses of oral Winstrol (Stanozolol ). It's an anabolic hormone that isn't used much by bodybuilders anymore because it tends to have hepatotoxicity side effects at the doses bodybuilders need for an anabolic effect. However, the (synthetic) hormone has a unique ability to suppress SHBG production much more than is normally observer with other androgens. I found that at very low doses (5 to 15 mg/day), I could suppress my SHBG into the normal range and greatly increase my Free T without changing my T dose. I've settled on 10 mg per day (5 mg AM and 5 mg PM) as the optimum dose and in my last 2 labs (5 and 1 month ago), my SHBG was 27.2 and 27.0 (about perfect) and my Free T was 27.8 and 20.8 (again, about perfect). The more interesting lab was my Total T. Without changing my T dose, my TT dropped from the prior 1000 to 1400 range to 887 and 632 in these last two labs.

    I believe what is happening is that by driving down SHBG production, more T is bioavailable and gets metabolized more quickly, thus lowering the TT in the labs. Oh, BTW, in these last two sets of labs, my liver enzymes (AST, ALT, & Alk Phos) were ever so slightly elevated (AST & ALT) 5 months ago and normal 1 month ago, so there does not appear to be any hepatotoxicity at this low dose of Winstrol (stanozolol).
    Thank you so much for sharing this, I was suspecting that reducing SHBG will also affect metabolism and excretion rate, but actual data is priceless looking forward to my bloodwork results, I have introduced winstrol one month ago and I'm eager to know where my tT levels above readable range will land at now.

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    No need to take oral steroids to lower your SHBG. Vitamin D with higher doses will do the trick amazingly. Before I started supplementing it, my 25(OH)D was 32 ng/ml and SHBG 38,7 nmol/l.
    After a few months on 10 000 UI vit D, my SHBG lowered to ~15ish and 25(OH)D went to around 100. (don't have labs anymore)
    At that time I didn't know it will lower my globulin. I was told by my physician to take higher doses of vit D, because it might raise my testosterone levels naturally. (it didn't so much though)
    As you can see now from my labs in 1st post, after 5 weeks on TRT my SHBG got even lower. I might actually stop supplementing vit D to make my SHBG go back to normal, so I won't have to inject test E3/4D.
    We will see.

    To people saying I need to take the labs just before the next injection - I will.
    But peaks are as important as lowest values folks, especially If I am going to change my protocol to E3D.

    No I don't take HCG , nor any AI/SERMs for now. My E2 should lower along with testosterone like I've mentioned.

    Btw, taking small amount of DHT derivatives is a very swifty thing for bodybuilders to get the most from their cycles. People pay a lot for that information
    There is also 1 more crucial benefit only a few knows. Sometimes people tend to have their prolactin elevated during cycles. If they happen to take HGH as well at that time and use cabergoline/bromo to take care of excess PRL, their IGF-1 will drop drastically. Raising IGF-1 is the reason HGH is used at the first place, so a shitton of money will go to waste. I can just say Winstrol e.g. might come in handy
    Last edited by kaime; 11-26-2016 at 08:28 PM.

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    I always take my 5k IU of daily Vitamin D3 as part of my thyroiditis supplement regime. The autoimmune process appears to deplete it and put you at chronic insufficiency.

    It didn't affect my SHBG by one bit. It's not even that elevated - 45 nmol/l. So far I've been able to dial it down to 30 by abusing AI, I did get some interesting results like virilization (hair growth, adult-type body odour).

    In September, I discovered my PRL to be quite high (54 ng/dl) and now I'm sure that was from estrogen dominance, induced by chronically high SHBG. Reason why is I don't seem to express 5-AR in targer tissue like I should. Even with "subcycle" T levels, I get virtually no increase in body/facial hair growth rate and my libido would still be crushed, erections completely absent.

    If I'm right, that means I must make circulating DHT available to tissues, and the only way is drastically lower SHBG, as it have highest affinity for binding proteins. I'm targeting levels < 20 nmol/l.

    So far, the results are promising, after two years on TRT things are returning to life under the belt, I still lack body odour and my beard looks very sparse and slowly growing, but I believe my levels need a tune up, I've reduced my dose to 50mg 2x weekly and started having low E2 symptoms too (I'm a poor aromatizer).

    It's a shame that caber impacts IGF-1, I take .25 e3d and I hope to drop it asap (not before the Tren though).

    Synthetic DHTs too seem to do the trick at managing minor increases in PRL levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    It's a shame that caber impacts IGF-1, I take .25 e3d and I hope to drop it asap (not before the Tren though).
    Have you actually seen a verifiable difference in your IGF-1 level on your current dose? I ask as the impact on IGF-1 with caber is totally dose related and at such a low dose I wonder whether it can even be the cause.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post

    Have you actually seen a verifiable difference in your IGF-1 level on your current dose? I ask as the impact on IGF-1 with caber is totally dose related and at such a low dose I wonder whether it can even be the cause.
    Nope it's pretty expensive to do regularly but clinical data points to 1mg/weekly as effective enough for acromegaly, now that I got curious enough I will test IGF-1 in January together with thyroid bw, I haven't pulled it in a while. Last time I checked was top of range at 285. I'm not really concerned with IGF-1 though I just want to get away with less drugs. I believe I will be in much less need of stuff once I've restored proper balance ( and feel way better of course).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaime View Post
    No need to take oral steroids to lower your SHBG. Vitamin D with higher doses will do the trick amazingly. Before I started supplementing it, my 25(OH)D was 32 ng/ml and SHBG 38,7 nmol/l.
    After a few months on 10 000 UI vit D, my SHBG lowered to ~15ish and 25(OH)D went to around 100. (don't have labs anymore)
    Unfortunately, that doesn't work for me. I've been researching SHBG for years. When I saw the Swedish and German epidemiologic studies which linked testosterone to daylight and SHBG levels, I thought that perhaps D3 was the answer. I've started supplementing with 4,000, then 8,000, and now 10,000 IU D3 for many years (at least 3) and there is no impact that I can see on SHBG levels for me. I think that there are probably different mechanisms for different people that cause high SHBG. For some, D3 seems to work well, for others Boron seems to work well, for me, nothing had any appreciable affect until I tried Winstrol (Stanozolol ). I have to become a felon to get it, but such is the American medical and legal system.

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    So after 4 days (day before next injection) I took the labs:

    Test - 5.86 ng/ml (2.2-9.8 range)
    E2 - 45.26 pg/ml (8-36 range)

    As you can see my testosterone levels dropped hugely.
    What dosage and frequency you guys think I should be doing?

    P.S I also did SHBG and free test, but my blood was sent to another lab and results will come after 2-3 weeks

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaime View Post
    So after 4 days (day before next injection) I took the labs:

    Test - 5.86 ng/ml (2.2-9.8 range)
    E2 - 45.26 pg/ml (8-36 range)

    As you can see my testosterone levels dropped hugely.
    What dosage and frequency you guys think I should be doing?

    P.S I also did SHBG and free test, but my blood was sent to another lab and results will come after 2-3 weeks
    Result is as expected. More or less, for each 100mg injected you will get a peak (after 24h for enanthate and cypionate ) of 1000ng/dL, so if you are at 500 and inject 200mg the next day you are more or less at 2500 ng/dl, of course it varies a bit for each individual.

    Dont the doctors at your country push for nebido protocol?

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    He did, but it's super expensive in my country and I didn't want it. Besides I am not sure if you read my first post. I did 100mg of enenthate and it went above 2000ng/dl and it dropped to 500 after 4 days. That's not normal i'd say.

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    It depends on how much was initially. It will add up.

    But please take the numbers I said above as a rule of thumb, not intending to be accurate, like I said everyone is different.

    So your protocol is 100mg each 5 days?

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    How come it will add up? My protocol is e7d as you can see in 1st post. First lab was taken 36H after injection with a peak of 22.40 ng/ml, yesterday I had 5.85 ng/ml, today probably even lower, let's say ~4ng/ml, so by what you are saying after injecting 100mg it should rise to ~15ng/ml. How come it was 22? I know everyone is different and metabolizes differently, that's why I'd like to ask what's your suggestion about my doses and frequencies. should I inject less more often, or more every 2 weeks?

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    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Less more often, so you have less peaks and higher valleys.
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    EOD is an overkill, or should be fine with my metabolism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaime View Post
    EOD is an overkill, or should be fine with my metabolism?
    The only problem is the number of injections

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    The only problem is the number of injections
    I asked about EOD protocol and I didn't quite get your response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaime View Post
    I asked about EOD protocol and I didn't quite get your response.
    He means that more frequent injections are better for more stable levels. The downside of frequent injections are that you have to inject frequently, which can be a pain in the ass, and you have to make sure to rotate spots otherwise you get scar tissue. With every injection there is a risk you make a mistake et.c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael30 View Post
    Just wanted to say you should look into proviron for lowering shbg. I believe it lowers shbg much better then winstrol and is much less toxic.
    There are a few members who've tried Proviron to lower SHBG - & with low dose winny(10mgs to start) it's seemed to lower SHBG much better... Not to say everyone will adhere to this protocol but just food for thought...

    Bizzarro was one that came to mind - I know he shared his experience up top too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rnsplg View Post
    He means that more frequent injections are better for more stable levels. The downside of frequent injections are that you have to inject frequently, which can be a pain in the ass, and you have to make sure to rotate spots otherwise you get scar tissue. With every injection there is a risk you make a mistake et.c.
    Agree with BB - the more often you pin the volume will be less but your levels will be much more stable - unless in Aveed/or nebido(UK) than we e found that injecting e3.5d has proven more stable than the drop you'll get from e5d or e7d

    Just take BW just b4 your next pin(day prior or that day you pin later in the night)... Just sharing my experience

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    There are a few members who've tried Proviron to lower SHBG - & with low dose winny(10mgs to start) it's seemed to lower SHBG much better... Not to say everyone will adhere to this protocol but just food for thought...

    Bizzarro was one that came to mind - I know he shared his experience up top too...
    The 10mg winstrol didn't lower SHBG, 4 weeks on crushed it from 45 to 8 and it a also split HDL cholesterol in half, though I'm not sure if Tren is also the culprit there.

    That sped up T elimination/metabolism like no tomorrow, so now I have to up dose and likely go through unhealthy peaks/valleys even on a 2x weekly protocol.

    I think I could achieve the purpose intended even with as a low as 2.5mg daily, I just appear to strongly respond to the winstrol (and DHTs alike).

    Anyway it's not anything I'd recommend to beginners, even low-dose could be harsh long term and requires monitoring, though I believe it's not needed to run it for long intervals, probably short cycles of the compound are more than enough to keep it down, it depends how stubborn it is, there is clinical data showing that SHBG stays somewhat lowered for months after cessation, but I have to test on myself to confirm.

    As my transaminases were already elevated (I also took tons of NSAID recently, so I dunno if the winstrol is the sole factor) I had to discontinue.

    It's probably more useful as "kickstart" when high SHBG levels prevents TRT from working, especially if symtomps are still present and everything else has failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rnsplg View Post
    He means that more frequent injections are better for more stable levels. The downside of frequent injections are that you have to inject frequently, which can be a pain in the ass, and you have to make sure to rotate spots otherwise you get scar tissue. With every injection there is a risk you make a mistake et.c.
    My experience is that in order to make more frequent injections sustainable, you have to decrease the needle size. A lot of guys use harpoons, so the thought of going to EOD or E3D is not very palatable. I've found it is very easy to draw and inject with a 28G 1/2 insulin syringe. You hardly feel anything and makes it sustainable. I've been doing E3D for over 4 years.

    By risk of making a mistake, do you mean misdosing? I find it very easy to accurately draw up 0.2 mL with a 1 cc insulin syringe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    The 10mg winstrol didn't lower SHBG, 4 weeks on crushed it from 45 to 8 and it a also split HDL cholesterol in half, though I'm not sure if Tren is also the culprit there.

    That sped up T elimination/metabolism like no tomorrow, so now I have to up dose and likely go through unhealthy peaks/valleys even on a 2x weekly protocol.

    I think I could achieve the purpose intended even with as a low as 2.5mg daily, I just appear to strongly respond to the winstrol (and DHTs alike).

    Anyway it's not anything I'd recommend to beginners, even low-dose could be harsh long term and requires monitoring, though I believe it's not needed to run it for long intervals, probably short cycles of the compound are more than enough to keep it down, it depends how stubborn it is, there is clinical data showing that SHBG stays somewhat lowered for months after cessation, but I have to test on myself to confirm.

    As my transaminases were already elevated (I also took tons of NSAID recently, so I dunno if the winstrol is the sole factor) I had to discontinue.

    It's probably more useful as "kickstart" when high SHBG levels prevents TRT from working, especially if symtomps are still present and everything else has failed.
    I think the key point with Winstrol is to start low and follow it up with labs every 4 to 6 weeks until you get the dose right. As you pointed out, you should also monitor liver enzymes but one has to be careful in monitoring other potential cofactors that can throw off liver enzymes. As you points out NSAIDs like ibuprofen and naproxen are notorious for that. So are statins, many antidepressants, and a host of other pharmaceuticals.

    I think though Winstrol gets an unjust bad rap for liver effects because of bodybuilder abuse. In the minute doses we need to lower SHBF, I believe it's very safe and highly effective. I've been using 10-15 mg (now just 10 mg) for over a year and my liver enzymes have been no more than slightly elevated a couple times and that could have been due to recent NSAID or alcohol consumption (I'm not always careful about abstaining the week prior to the test). my last test (at 10 mg) came back completely normal.

    Also keep in mind, that I had very high SHBG levels to begin with. They ranged between 60 to 70 nmol/L (normal 19.3-76.4). When I take 10 mg Winstrol, it keeps it pretty close to 30 nmol/L. My last 2 tests were 27.2 and 27.0. So that seems to be about the perfect amount for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I think the key point with Winstrol is to start low and follow it up with labs every 4 to 6 weeks until you get the dose right. As you pointed out, you should also monitor liver enzymes but one has to be careful in monitoring other potential cofactors that can throw off liver enzymes. As you points out NSAIDs like ibuprofen and naproxen are notorious for that. So are statins, many antidepressants, and a host of other pharmaceuticals.

    I think though Winstrol gets an unjust bad rap for liver effects because of bodybuilder abuse. In the minute doses we need to lower SHBF, I believe it's very safe and highly effective. I've been using 10-15 mg (now just 10 mg) for over a year and my liver enzymes have been no more than slightly elevated a couple times and that could have been due to recent NSAID or alcohol consumption (I'm not always careful about abstaining the week prior to the test). my last test (at 10 mg) came back completely normal.

    Also keep in mind, that I had very high SHBG levels to begin with. They ranged between 60 to 70 nmol/L (normal 19.3-76.4). When I take 10 mg Winstrol, it keeps it pretty close to 30 nmol/L. My last 2 tests were 27.2 and 27.0. So that seems to be about the perfect amount for me.
    Yes, I do recall yours was very stubborn. Ibuprofen is what I took, lots of, because I couldn't eat and felt sick from gingival infection/inflammation. My GP agreed too that it could be well the cause for enzymes to raise, and recommended to check in a few months (I will before the xmas binges however, luckily I don't drink at all).

    ALT raised to 122 U/L which is a tad above what's expected from drug intoxication, hence multiple factors might be at play. "Baseline" values have always been borderline, but it's a genetic/family thing.

    I think I might resume winstrol at 5mg daily 6/7, if transaminases return to normal, and see if my liver is fine with it.

    Ideal target for SHBG would be 15-19.
    Last edited by hammerheart; 12-01-2016 at 01:05 AM.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I think the key point with Winstrol is to start low and follow it up with labs every 4 to 6 weeks until you get the dose right. As you pointed out, you should also monitor liver enzymes but one has to be careful in monitoring other potential cofactors that can throw off liver enzymes. As you points out NSAIDs like ibuprofen and naproxen are notorious for that. So are statins, many antidepressants, and a host of other pharmaceuticals.

    I think though Winstrol gets an unjust bad rap for liver effects because of bodybuilder abuse. In the minute doses we need to lower SHBF, I believe it's very safe and highly effective. I've been using 10-15 mg (now just 10 mg) for over a year and my liver enzymes have been no more than slightly elevated a couple times and that could have been due to recent NSAID or alcohol consumption (I'm not always careful about abstaining the week prior to the test). my last test (at 10 mg) came back completely normal.

    Also keep in mind, that I had very high SHBG levels to begin with. They ranged between 60 to 70 nmol/L (normal 19.3-76.4). When I take 10 mg Winstrol, it keeps it pretty close to 30 nmol/L. My last 2 tests were 27.2 and 27.0. So that seems to be about the perfect amount for me.
    Forgot to ask - how did the winstrol impact your cholesterol levels, if any at all?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    My experience is that in order to make more frequent injections sustainable, you have to decrease the needle size. A lot of guys use harpoons, so the thought of going to EOD or E3D is not very palatable. I've found it is very easy to draw and inject with a 28G 1/2 insulin syringe. You hardly feel anything and makes it sustainable. I've been doing E3D for over 4 years.

    By risk of making a mistake, do you mean misdosing? I find it very easy to accurately draw up 0.2 mL with a 1 cc insulin syringe.
    I meant mistakes like being uncareful with the needle and cutting yourself in other areas et.c. Dropping stuff, moving the needle when its inside, hitting a vein. When I did peptides I injected 4 times per day and eventually it was such a chore that I was less careful = increased risk. Even if the risk is one in a thousand, if you do it every day then you will eventually have many bad experiences.
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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Forgot to ask - how did the winstrol impact your cholesterol levels, if any at all?
    No impact at all. However, I started taking the absolute lowest possible dose of Liptor (forget the actual dose) about a year before I started Winstrol , so that might have something to do with it.

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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnsplg View Post
    I meant mistakes like being uncareful with the needle and cutting yourself in other areas et.c. Dropping stuff, moving the needle when its inside, hitting a vein. When I did peptides I injected 4 times per day and eventually it was such a chore that I was less careful = increased risk. Even if the risk is one in a thousand, if you do it every day then you will eventually have many bad experiences.
    I hear you. But then again, after 4 years of E3D dosing (nearly 500 injections), I have yet to have a problem injection. Absolute risk is the product of frequency X consequence. I would argue that with a 28G 1/2 inch long needle both the frequency and consequence of a mistake in injecting is inconsequential.

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    I've changed my protocol to 30mg E3D and my test was around 6 ng/ml after 2 days. Raised the dosage to 50mg E3d and now it's around 10 ng/ml.
    Also taking 12.5 mg of exe E3D and it lowers my E2 from 50 to 22pg/ml very nicely.

    On the other hand believe it or not I absolutely do not feel any changes to my mood, libido etc. at all from the very beggining of TRT. I am the same guy with low T symptoms as I was over 2 months ago.
    It pisses me so much I have no bloody idea what else I can do other than waiting.

    Any ideas?

  33. #33
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    What was the cause for your hypogonadism?

  34. #34
    kaime is offline New Member
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    My pituitary gland shutdown. Got MRI check - clean, klomifen didn't help, even with combination of tamoxifen and forskolin together.

  35. #35
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    After christmas I've switched to 20mg of prop ED + 500 UI HCG E4D and it's been almost 4 weeks already. No improvement at all. Cruising on 11-14 ng/ml with slightly elevated E2, which doesn;'t bother me at all, hence using no AI.

    Feeling exactly the same as before TRT with super low test. Low libido (erection is fine), bad mood, occasional brain fog etc. Any ideas guys?

  36. #36
    LeeSin1 is offline Junior Member
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    at least your erections are fine, mine have historically been soft when my libido was down, haha... low doses of T also send my levels skyrocketing. No idea.

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