Thoughts on cruising at 1400 instead of between 400-1100?

[petemitchell30]

Caption says it all.....what are the experts thoughts on cruising a little above the "normal" range? Pros, cons?

[AR's King Silabolin]

I guess u mean ng/dl and not test mg.

Enchanced athlete has a vid out now discussing cruising with 400 mg test. That should give u a lot more.

I think u have to know what your are doing then. Cons would be increase in hematocrit and prostate. HCT can be controlled. Prostate will grow.
BP and cholestrol could be an issue and need to be taken care of with a nazi diett and plenty of cardio.
Another con would be more inefficient blasts, unless u really up the dosages.
Body adapts and after a while you will not see gains compared to 6-700.

Cruises should be for maintaining and if u do everything rigth its surprising how much u can hold on to.

I manage to hold on to almost everything, beeing under 200.

I say no. Basictly because you then have to up the doses at the blasts.
The worst thing is to try to fire things up and realize nothing happens. Elevated cruisedosages could very well cause this.

[Mr.BB]

How will you keep it steady at 1400 ng/dl ?

[DocToxin8]

From some study's I have seen on T, you can very well be a quite a lot over the "normal" range before bad stuff happens; changes in lipid profile, BP, etc.
but this will wary according to individual.

Personally I don't think that's a problem, going somewhat over the upper limit.
But that's merely what i think. And I also think some people will react badly to such a dose.

Start a log, do bloodwork often and see if you can get it somewhere near 1400ng/ml and keep us updated. Would love to see not only bloodwork, but how you feel on such a regimen.
Should it cause problems simply dial back, though keep in mind you're a guinea pig in an experiment that could cause you harm.

[hammerheart]

I have been there for almost a year,

CBC was unchanged until a marginal 10% increase over December/January, hemoglobin even lowered;

Cholesterol got badly screwed in the start from AIs (but no more than it was pre-TRT), dropped those it was unremarkable, until Tren splitted HDL in two (31), trys always in the 30s;

BP has always remained around 115/70, however lately I'm obtaining readings around 135/80.


I feel like crap. I'm struggling in any areas of functioning. Sometimes facial hair will grow on (f.ex) monday to thursday then take a vacation for a week.

Libido is nowhere, I jumped on caber the start of October to manage high prolactin and discontinued on 15th January just to realize how much it was helping. Bonus with Tren+Caber. I feel asexual on Test alone.

[petemitchell30]

How will you keep it steady at 1400 ng/dl ?

I get blood labs done about every 2 weeks. Although they are generally for different things, the past 8 weeks, in addition to whatever else I was pulling, I've also measured my test and free test levels. At a dosage of 300mg every sunday, my levels are consistently between 1370 and 1410, depending on the day of the week I have the blood drawn. Additionally, .25 adex on a M/W/F schedule keeps my e2 between 22 and 28.

I literally just got back from pulling thyroid (which was low end of normal at the end of a 5 week clen cycle 2 weeks ago-interested to see what they are now), complete blood count, comprehensive metabolic (including liver and kidney function) and lipid panel.

As soon as I get those results back I'll post them, as they should provide at least some evidence of how test levels of 1400 ng/dl affect an otherwise healthy 35yr old man.

[Nephets]

I have been there for almost a year,

CBC was unchanged until a marginal 10% increase over December/January, hemoglobin even lowered;

Cholesterol got badly screwed in the start from AIs (but no more than it was pre-TRT), dropped those it was unremarkable, until Tren splitted HDL in two (31), trys always in the 30s;

BP has always remained around 115/70, however lately I'm obtaining readings around 135/80.


I feel like crap. I'm struggling in any areas of functioning. Sometimes facial hair will grow on (f.ex) monday to thursday then take a vacation for a week.

Libido is nowhere, I jumped on caber the start of October to manage high prolactin and discontinued on 15th January just to realize how much it was helping. Bonus with Tren+Caber. I feel asexual on Test alone.

I have read a lot of your posts and I know you got a lot of bad shit going on. The things that you are currently dealing with, were you born that way or is it all a result of your steroid usage. Don't mean to get too personal here.

[Mr.BB]

I get blood labs done about every 2 weeks. Although they are generally for different things, the past 8 weeks, in addition to whatever else I was pulling, I've also measured my test and free test levels. At a dosage of 300mg every sunday, my levels are consistently between 1370 and 1410, depending on the day of the week I have the blood drawn. Additionally, .25 adex on a M/W/F schedule keeps my e2 between 22 and 28.

.

You pin 300mg every sunday and no matter what day you draw blood the total testosterone is always between 1370 and 1410 ng/dl????

Sorry, but this is totally impossible. You need to understand that the hormone does not get release from the ester at the same rate.

[hammerheart]

I have read a lot of your posts and I know you got a lot of bad shit going on. The things that you are currently dealing with, were you born that way or is it all a result of your steroid usage. Don't mean to get too personal here.

Well, forgot to say - what I meant with my post is everyone will respond differently b/c of individual makeup, I might get virtually no Test related sides at ultra-physiologic levels other than E2 ones but that's me, some will find themselves in need of frequent blood donations, struggle with poor lipid profile, maybe negative CV outcomes, and perhaps prostate issues - didn't really want to make it another of my rants

If your interested, no I wasn't born this way, I dunno if you had klinefelter syndrome or anything congenital in mind but everything was normal when growing up, until 2012 my libido was through the roof, had rock hard painful woods though I was already dealing with poor energy since teens, but I also got hashimoto's that can account for that.

I got spontaneous low T and I'm on TRT since 2014, AAS use is just me trying to understand (and perhaps fix) my system better as I respond poorly to Test. I got an experimental vein also and sometimes I get "carried out".

It's not "lot of bad shit" though I'm making progress overall despite facing temporary setbacks.

[Nephets]

Good to hear.

[bullshark99]

I don't know if you can really quantify a a difference with T levels at 1000 or 1400. Personally I can not, so my conclusion would be to err on the side of caution.

[petemitchell30]

You pin 300mg every sunday and no matter what day you draw blood the total testosterone is always between 1370 and 1410 ng/dl????

Sorry, but this is totally impossible. You need to understand that the hormone does not get release from the ester at the same rate.

My lab results disagree with you. In looking back at them, 1 of them was on a Thursday and measured 1410, and the other 2 were both taken on Fridays and measured 1368 (so not technically 1370), and 1376 respectively. So, either it is possible or the equipment at labcorp malfunctioned.

[ScotchGuard02]

Caption says it all.....what are the experts thoughts on cruising a little above the "normal" range? Pros, cons?

I like to cruise at about 1100 as I'm worried about taxing my liver too much if I cruise at a higher level. My buddy's on 200mg/wk of Test Cyp and he's at close to 1400. I'm taking 150mg/wk Test Cyp. The difference between 1100 and 1400? I was a little bit stronger at 1400 but honestly, not that much. My bench was at 405lbs at 1400 and about 375lbs at 1100. The real difference I noticed was when I'm on HGH for 6 months. My 225lbs reps are 36 on HGH and 28 on Test only.

[petemitchell30]

Labs I just got look like this:

CBC With Differential/Platelet
WBC 8.5 x10E3/uL 3.4 - 10.8 01
RBC 4.94 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80 01
Hemoglobin 15.6 g/dL 12.6 - 17.7 01
Hematocrit 46.6 % 37.5 - 51.0 01
MCV 94 fL 79 - 97 01
MCH 31.6 pg 26.6 - 33.0 01
MCHC 33.5 g/dL 31.5 - 35.7 01
RDW 13.0 % 12.3 - 15.4 01
Platelets 258 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 01
Neutrophils 71 % 01
Lymphs 16 % 01
Monocytes 9 % 01
Eos 4 % 01
Basos 0 % 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 6.0 x10E3/uL 1.4 - 7.0 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.4 x10E3/uL 0.7 - 3.1 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.8 x10E3/uL 0.1 - 0.9 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.3 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.4 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.2 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0 - 0.1 01
Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
Glucose, Serum 90 mg/dL 65 - 99 01
BUN 17 mg/dL 6 - 20 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.19 mg/dL 0.76 - 1.27 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 79 mL/min/1.73 >59
eGFR If Africn Am 92 mL/min/1.73 >59
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 14 8 - 19
Sodium, Serum 141 mmol/L 134 - 144 01
Potassium, Serum 4.6 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.2 01
Chloride, Serum 101 mmol/L 96 - 106 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 26 mmol/L 18 - 29 01
Calcium, Serum 9.6 mg/dL 8.7 - 10.2 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.5 g/dL 6.0 - 8.5 01
Albumin, Serum 4.3 g/dL 3.5 - 5.5 01
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5 - 4.5
A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1 - 2.5

Bilirubin, Total 0.3 mg/dL 0.0 - 1.2 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 34 Low IU/L 39 - 117 01
AST (SGOT) 38 IU/L 0 - 40 01
ALT (SGPT) 55 High IU/L 0 - 44 01
Lipid Panel w/ Chol/HDL Ratio
Cholesterol, Total 145 mg/dL 100 - 199 01
Triglycerides 151 High mg/dL 0 - 149 01
HDL Cholesterol 39 Low mg/dL >39 01
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 30 mg/dL 5 - 40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 76 mg/dL 0 - 99
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 3.7 ratio units 0.0 - 5.0

Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S
T4,Free(Direct) 0.84 ng/dL 0.82 - 1.77 01
TSH 2.320 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500 01
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 2.9 pg/mL 2.0 - 4.4 01

What do you guys think? I just got some NAC and TUDCA (couldn't find any UDCA) and starting taking those yesterday. AFter 8 weeks of this, I don't think it looks all that bad. I need to work increasing HDL (ideas??) and decreasing ALT (NAC hopefully), but other than that.....am I missing something?

[hammerheart]

What's whit your trys? Always been that high?

Your thyroid status is poor. Are you on low carb diet, or otherwise in calorie deficit?

I guess it's the AI messing with your cholesterol.

[hammerheart]

I like to cruise at about 1100 as I'm worried about taxing my liver too much if I cruise at a higher level. My buddy's on 200mg/wk of Test Cyp and he's at close to 1400. I'm taking 150mg/wk Test Cyp. The difference between 1100 and 1400? I was a little bit stronger at 1400 but honestly, not that much. My bench was at 405lbs at 1400 and about 375lbs at 1100. The real difference I noticed was when I'm on HGH for 6 months. My 225lbs reps are 36 on HGH and 28 on Test only.

125mg Test-E twice weekly landed me there (1130). I've just reduced it a tad (100mg 2x). I can barely do some push ups.

[DocToxin8]

Are you on a high fat diet or something?

About the cholesterol, need some improvement, milk thistle may help.
You ALAT is barely elevated. I wouldn't worry.
But keep checking it.
I'm guessing it will normalize just staying on test, but that's me.

Is it long since you did any orals or other injectables that are harder of the lipid profile btw?

[dreadnok89]

125mg Test-E twice weekly landed me there (1130). I've just reduced it a tad (100mg 2x). I can barely do some push ups.

Di you think its the test or right amount of sleep or nutrition? I could do real heavy bench even with low t. Just the rdcovery was non-existant. I started taking naps in car after work then i would go into the gym. That nap helped alot.

[hammerheart]

Di you think its the test or right amount of sleep or nutrition? I could do real heavy bench even with low t. Just the rdcovery was non-existant. I started taking naps in car after work then i would go into the gym. That nap helped alot.

About the bench press it's more about insertion points I believe. I used to be very strong, but never did wonders in the bench press.

Yes I recall the very poor recovery during low T times. There are also genetic factors other than environmental ones (food, sleep, stress) but if you aren't gifted by nature and genetics it can hit you hard.

Lethargy is another of the worst low T / E2 symptoms I experienced. I was also struggling with hypothyroidism but I spent most of the day sleeping (12-15h).

[Mr.BB]

My lab results disagree with you. In looking back at them, 1 of them was on a Thursday and measured 1410, and the other 2 were both taken on Fridays and measured 1368 (so not technically 1370), and 1376 respectively. So, either it is possible or the equipment at labcorp malfunctioned.

So, thursday and friday bloodwork and you inject test on sundays...

If you don't believe me pin on sunday morning and go take bloodwork on monday.

[thewarrior8845]

My lab results disagree with you. In looking back at them, 1 of them was on a Thursday and measured 1410, and the other 2 were both taken on Fridays and measured 1368 (so not technically 1370), and 1376 respectively. So, either it is possible or the equipment at labcorp malfunctioned.

petemitchell30, If you got lab work done on monday or tuesday you would see that your not between 1410ng/dl and 1370ng/dl on those days days. On monday or tuesday when your levels are at there peak im guessing you would be about 1800ng/dl to 2000ng/dl. Hey, but if your other health markers are good and you feel good on that protocol then...

[petemitchell30]

[QUOTE]So, thursday and friday bloodwork and you inject test on sundays...

If you don't believe me pin on sunday morning and go take bloodwork on monday./QUOTE]

petemitchell30, If you got lab work done on monday or tuesday you would see that your not between 1410ng/dl and 1370ng/dl on those days days. On monday or tuesday when your levels are at there peak im guessing you would be about 1800ng/dl to 2000ng/dl. Hey, but if your other health markers are good and you feel good on that protocol then...

BB I misunderstood your original comment, but I believe I understand what you are saying now. I would still think the range to be 200-300 after factoring in remaining amounts from dosages in the prior weeks....is that incorrect? I guess the only way to be certain is to get it tested on a Monday next time.

DocToxin8
Are you on a high fat diet or something?

About the cholesterol, need some improvement, milk thistle may help.
You ALAT is barely elevated. I wouldn't worry.
But keep checking it.
I'm guessing it will normalize just staying on test, but that's me.

Is it long since you did any orals or other injectables that are harder of the lipid profile btw?

I ran clen and ketotifen at 140mg ED and 3mg ED respectively for 5 weeks. However the last 3 weeks have been Test and arimidex exclusively. I did eat like absolute sh!t this weekend, lots of fat and sugar. I don't know if eating horribly sat and sun would affect my values on tuesday though.

[Proximal]

I like to cruise at about 1100 as I'm worried about taxing my liver too much if I cruise at a higher level. My buddy's on 200mg/wk of Test Cyp and he's at close to 1400. I'm taking 150mg/wk Test Cyp.

Can you rely on the liver panels from BW to give you an accurate idea if the liver is being taxed too much?