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    First Bloods, Unexpected Results



    The high metabolic markers donít shock me too much, as none are excessively out of range, and those that would be of actual concern are in range.

    What shocked the hell out of me are the Test, Free Test, DHEA, E2 and T3.

    You would expect, given that I eat like a horse and have absolutely no low hormone symptoms, that they would at least be CLOSE to normal. All except for the T3 are basically basement level, and that oneís still fairly low.

    Thoughts?

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    What dosages are you taking? How often? How long? Age?

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    Also.. are you doing trt with a doctor or on your own?

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    First Bloods, Unexpected Results

    Iím not taking anything. This is literally the first blood panel Iíve ever had done in my life.

    Age: 33.

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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    I’m not taking anything. This is literally the first blood panel I’ve ever had done in my life.

    Age: 33.
    I'd consider a redraw and retest, I'm amazed that you aren't feeling low T symptoms with those low Total and Free T numbers. Your SHBG is also at the high end. Something goofy is going on here. Perhaps you don't know what it's like to feel "normal". just saying, those numbers are very low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I'd consider a redraw and retest, I'm amazed that you aren't feeling low T symptoms with those low Total and Free T numbers. Your SHBG is also at the high end. Something goofy is going on here. Perhaps you don't know what it's like to feel "normal". just saying, those numbers are very low.
    About the only one is shit libido, but the parts still work, and thatís always been that way.

    That said, I did spend most of my life as a morbidly obese sack of ass, so it would make sense that my thinking I feel fine now is still below an actual ďnormalĒ, as itís completely amazing compared to how I felt when 265 lbs. Hah.

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    If I recall correctly, you’ve made a pretty drastic change to your activity level and diet and lost a lot of weight recently? Big changes like that can play havoc with your hormones and cause wild swings because so much has changed so quickly from what your body used to view as normal. I’d re test hormone levels a few times spread out over the next few months to get a better idea of where you really stand.
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    First Bloods, Unexpected Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter35 View Post
    If I recall correctly, youíve made a pretty drastic change to your activity level and diet and lost a lot of weight recently? Big changes like that can play havoc with your hormones and cause wild swings because so much has changed so quickly from what your body used to view as normal. Iíd re test hormone levels a few times spread out over the next few months to get a better idea of where you really stand.
    It wasnít recent. Almost all of my current changes were made about a year and a half ago now, when I hit 150 lbs. bodyweight and started lifting. All of the major weight loss occurred between 2011 and 2015.

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    And what did your doctor say?
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    First Bloods, Unexpected Results

    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    And what did your doctor say?
    Donít have one. Pulled labs through PMDL.

    Iíve avoided the medical community like the plague since I was a teenager. Call it a suspicion of motive, given that my mom spent years with doctors and kept getting run through a milieu of drugs that did nothing for her health issues when all she really needed to do was unfuck her diet and stop sitting on her ass. Heh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Don’t have one. Pulled labs through PMDL.

    I’ve avoided the medical community like the plague since I was a teenager. Call it a suspicion of motive, given that my mom spent years with doctors and kept getting run through a milieu of drugs that did nothing for her health issues when all she really needed to do was unfuck her diet and stop sitting on her ass. Heh.
    Well you’re way ahead of most by not just blindly trusting whatever the medical community tells you! Medicine has its place, but I think it’s very wise to self educate and use that in combination with medical advice. If subsequent testing confirms your T levels are really that low I would strongly suggest seeking treatment. Low T can have health consequences beyond how you feel (and like you said, maybe you just don’t know how bad you feel). I think I was in that boat when I was first diagnosed, not realizing until I started getting my hormones straightened out how much better I felt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter35 View Post
    Well youíre way ahead of most by not just blindly trusting whatever the medical community tells you! Medicine has its place, but I think itís very wise to self educate and use that in combination with medical advice. If subsequent testing confirms your T levels are really that low I would strongly suggest seeking treatment. Low T can have health consequences beyond how you feel (and like you said, maybe you just donít know how bad you feel). I think I was in that boat when I was first diagnosed, not realizing until I started getting my hormones straightened out how much better I felt.
    Thatís my current plan. Iíll be making some calls to some urologists tomorrow. However, given that I donít carry insurance, Iím not interested in getting jerked around for several hundred dollars in out of pocket fees.

    Iím the kind of person that, if I smell bullshit, Iím far more inclined to handle things myself.

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    When you make your calls be sure to ask if they treat with the following:

    Testosterone self-injections
    HCG
    AI if needed

    And most importantly treat you based on how you feel, not as a number on a chart. You'll be a new man with optimized T levels. I was at that level once and like you, had no real clue until after treatment. World of difference.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    When you make your calls be sure to ask if they treat with the following:

    Testosterone self-injections
    HCG
    AI if needed

    And most importantly treat you based on how you feel, not as a number on a chart. You'll be a new man with optimized T levels. I was at that level once and like you, had no real clue until after treatment. World of difference.
    Will do, thanks Kel.

    Yeah, I have no interest in being sold on some bullshit like Androgel , and if they donít do AIs and HCG, theyíve lost their damned minds.

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    Appointment made with a local uro. Unfortunately, the soonest appointment they had for new inductions is next Wednesday.

    Que sera sera. Weíll see what happens.

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    I'm very curious here as well......... also, Vit D, am I reading this correct 96????? Whats going on there? Never saw a number that high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bullshark99 View Post
    I'm very curious here as well......... also, Vit D, am I reading this correct 96????? Whats going on there? Never saw a number that high.
    Dosing 12,000 iu per day. Being a ginger whoís inside most of the time, I started it high about a year ago. Now that Iíve seen the level come in so high, I know to ratchet it back a bit.

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    Update:

    Doctor agreed with everything I had to say. Due to SoP though, he needs another confirmed low level. So, I had the draw for that this mornong, and the doc will call me as soon as they get the lab results.

    Assuming the confirmed low level, heíll call me in a script as soon as they get the result. Then I go pick the stuff up, go back to them so they can tell me how to pin and see me do it (already watched a shitload of videos, but they need to see me do it properly, because apparently most people are retarded). After that, pull bloods in 6-9 weeks to see where I stabilize, and go from there.

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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Update:

    Doctor agreed with everything I had to say. Due to SoP though, he needs another confirmed low level. So, I had the draw for that this mornong, and the doc will call me as soon as they get the lab results.

    Assuming the confirmed low level, he’ll call me in a script as soon as they get the result. Then I go pick the stuff up, go back to them so they can tell me how to pin and see me do it (already watched a shitload of videos, but they need to see me do it properly, because apparently most people are retarded). After that, pull bloods in 6-9 weeks to see where I stabilize, and go from there.
    Did he discuss dose (amount) and frequency of injections? Keep in mind too that most docs are trained to use harpoons for T injection. Smile and say thank you. Then go order yourself some 28G insulin syringes from Totaldiabetes.com or some other service. If he prescribes weekly injections, strongly request that the same dose (e.g., 100 mg T-cyp) be broken up into E3D or twice weekly injections to prevent spiking of T levels 14-48 hours post-injection. This will minimize the need for E2 control and DHT control. Both E2 and DHT conversion are driven by peak levels of T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    Did he discuss dose (amount) and frequency of injections? Keep in mind too that most docs are trained to use harpoons for T injection. Smile and say thank you. Then go order yourself some 28G insulin syringes from Totaldiabetes.com or some other service. If he prescribes weekly injections, strongly request that the same dose (e.g., 100 mg T-cyp) be broken up into E3D or twice weekly injections to prevent spiking of T levels 14-48 hours post-injection. This will minimize the need for E2 control and DHT control. Both E2 and DHT conversion are driven by peak levels of T.
    He did say 100mg/week is his standard starting dose. Iíll bring up the frequency issue, but Iíll be pinning myself, so regardless of whatís on the bottle, Iíll be doing 50mg every 3.5 days.

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    Second test confirmed dumpster tier test levels, script in at the pharmacy, and now awaiting my Test E.

    Weíll see in a few weeks what 50mg 2x/week does for me.

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    The MCV size is concerning, I'd advise supplementing and/or testing vit. B12 and B9.

    Try methylcobalamin not cyano.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    The MCV size is concerning, I'd advise supplementing and/or testing vit. B12 and B9.

    Try methylcobalamin not cyano.
    Started methyl B12 the day after I got the bloods. We shall see if it gets in line by my next panel in a few weeks.

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    Okay, potentially stupid question, but I canít find a legitimate answer to this issue.

    Prior to starting TRT, I had been maintaining weight very steadily for weeks at 2900 kcals. About two weeks prior to first pin I had bumped to 3150 in an attempt to slowly start gaining again. However, even at my current 3400, Iím now down nearly a pound in just a few days. So yeah, does taking test from gutter levels (50-100) up to wherever itís landed for me on 50mg 2x/week (wonít be pulling bloods for a few more weeks) have a notable impact on metabolic function? All I ever see is shit like ďTest isnít magic fat loss bruuuu, get yo diet in checkĒ. Thatís not a legitimate answer to my question, as Iíve been anally tracking food intake for years, and something has drastically changed on the CO side. Itís not my training load or NEAT, as Iíve actually been keeping track of those as well, for just as long as the food.

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    Too early to tell imo and a pound worth of a change is rather insignificant.. just too many factors weighting in.

    Test can boost T4-T3 conversion btw, especially if your coming from very low levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Too early to tell imo and a pound worth of a change is rather insignificant.. just too many factors weighting in.

    Test can boost T4-T3 conversion btw, especially if your coming from very low levels.
    This is true, and I plan to run at this levels for a couple of weeks before bumping again. It just seems absurd that I was maintaining at the level I was (I use daily tracking and a moving average) for as long as I was, to suddenly be shedding at this rate, in spite of a mild caloric increase, when all other factors are constant.

    I even track electrolytes, due to needing to know how to manipulate them for competition weigh-ins.

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    Short answer is yes, rapid changes in T levels can certainly affect metabolism. They can also affect IGF-1 levels, which also can affect metabolism. Many guys initially gain 5-10 pounds quite rapidly, but it's usually due to water retention and not muscle mass. Rapid changes in T levels can affect corticosteroid levels in the body, which in turn affect fluid retention. It's listed as one of the potential side-effects on all of the topical T gels. I noticed this myself with injections too.

    I agree with a previous poster in that 1 pound is not significant. Believe it or not, I record my weight and %BF (bioelectrical method) daily, and I've been doing this since 1999 (it was a year 200 resolution that actually stuck). When you look at a graph of the daily fluctuations you can see a definite pattern of being +/- 1 pound per day (i.e., typically a 2 pound range). I NEVER look at the daily fluctuations. Instead, I built an Excel spreadsheet to calculate out a 14 day running average and plot that. My experience with about 18 years of data is that when the 14 day average moves (up or down), it's biologically significant change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    Short answer is yes, rapid changes in T levels can certainly affect metabolism. They can also affect IGF-1 levels, which also can affect metabolism. Many guys initially gain 5-10 pounds quite rapidly, but it's usually due to water retention and not muscle mass. Rapid changes in T levels can affect corticosteroid levels in the body, which in turn affect fluid retention. It's listed as one of the potential side-effects on all of the topical T gels. I noticed this myself with injections too.

    I agree with a previous poster in that 1 pound is not significant. Believe it or not, I record my weight and %BF (bioelectrical method) daily, and I've been doing this since 1999 (it was a year 200 resolution that actually stuck). When you look at a graph of the daily fluctuations you can see a definite pattern of being +/- 1 pound per day (i.e., typically a 2 pound range). I NEVER look at the daily fluctuations. Instead, I built an Excel spreadsheet to calculate out a 14 day running average and plot that. My experience with about 18 years of data is that when the 14 day average moves (up or down), it's biologically significant change.
    Yeap, again, I am talking about a 1 lbs. shift in my moving average, not a 1 lbs. shift in scale weight.

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    Second week in, and the scale is starting to tick up.

    Also, what the hell with the improvements in gut/bowel function? A quick Google shows quite a few forums posts in various places mirroring my experience. However, after spending my entire life hitting the crapper maybe once every 2-3 days, itís definitely odd having it hit me every day at the exact same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Second week in, and the scale is starting to tick up.

    Also, what the hell with the improvements in gut/bowel function? A quick Google shows quite a few forums posts in various places mirroring my experience. However, after spending my entire life hitting the crapper maybe once every 2-3 days, it’s definitely odd having it hit me every day at the exact same time.
    This happened to me when I really started eating right, not just the typical bodybuilding guidelines but also including lots of micronutrients, high fiber, water etc. The very low test may have been affecting another thing that affects another thing and so on. Who knows lol. But if it is very regular then it means everything is working in order. You are now more anabolic

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    Quote Originally Posted by cousinmuscles View Post
    This happened to me when I really started eating right, not just the typical bodybuilding guidelines but also including lots of micronutrients, high fiber, water etc. The very low test may have been affecting another thing that affects another thing and so on. Who knows lol. But if it is very regular then it means everything is working in order. You are now more anabolic
    Hopefully so. My gym performance is starting to mirror my improved feeling as well. This mornings session went far better than expected.

    Iíve changed nothing in my diet since weeks before starting TRT, so that part has nothing to do with my case. Iím an obsessive food tracker, due to using that method to break my decades long streak as a fat kid.

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    What about your BUN? There may be some issues with your kidneys. I would further check that out. They do not repair themselves like the liver can. You will need to have a 24 hour urine test. It sucks but It can put your mind at ease on the kidneys.


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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    What about your BUN? There may be some issues with your kidneys. I would further check that out. They do not repair themselves like the liver can. You will need to have a 24 hour urine test. It sucks but It can put your mind at ease on the kidneys.


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    Iíd be more worried if my BUN wasnít high at the time, given the protein intake I shoved into myself pre-fast. xD

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    Completely random thing that has changed since starting:


    Seems odd to me that BP has dropped since starting, in spite of increased weight. Even used a machine at a different location yesterday, it was right after training, and it still showed notably lower than my old normal range.

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    New bloods are in, taken about 12 weeks into 100mg/week of Test E.



    About the only thing Iím disliking from previous is the notable drop in HDL. That said, itís still passable, and somewhat expected.

    I definitely canít bitch about the trough day test levels though, especially not at this dosage. Feeling pretty awesome, the girlfriend is notably happier, and my lifting performance has shown pretty rapid improvements.
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    I think you'll be happy with that. Monitor the E, PSA, cholesterol and hematocrit. Those are the one's that seem to rise over time.

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    First Bloods, Unexpected Results

    Quote Originally Posted by RoxRunner View Post
    I think you'll be happy with that. Monitor the E, PSA, cholesterol and hematocrit. Those are the one's that seem to rise over time.
    Oh, I am absolutely thrilled with the results. ďGot it in oneĒ, so to speak.

    From what Iíve heard, a lot of guys struggle to get their shit in range for months, if not years, juggling all kinds of compounds and various drugs. My body seems to be doing rather well with the default starting dose of Test-E and no ancillaries, so we shall see how it goes from here.

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    Your tsh lowering makes me think your thyroid is working better now. You're not on thyroid meds right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasondd1 View Post
    Your tsh lowering makes me think your thyroid is working better now. You're not on thyroid meds right?
    Nope. Iím on absolutely nothing other than the test, food and vitamin/mineral supps. I donít even take over the counter painkillers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Nope. I’m on absolutely nothing other than the test, food and vitamin/mineral supps. I don’t even take over the counter painkillers.
    After what you have done with rock bottom levels you are gonna kick some serios ass now

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