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Thread: Opinions/help trt

  1. #1
    Wadetrt is offline New Member
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    Opinions/help trt

    So I have been on trt for about 5 years I took 1 ml every 2 weeks and for a while that worked I felt fine but about a year into to it I started not to feel not so great. I tried to work with my crappy Dr. But he just kept ignoring me btw in the 5 years I was with him I had 2 blood tests done. My test at first was 287 the next test (2years later) my levels where at 367 so I finally went to a male clinic and got some help he put me in .75 MLS test cup every Sunday and 50 units hcg every Saturday. Will my test levels keep going up with time or will they just shoot up right away. I do feel a little better but not great I have been on this new regimen for 2 weeks I got new blood work before I started it was 389 test and I think 14 estrogen. Does all this sound ok? Or is .75 not enough a week? Is 50 units to much? Also I keep getting like a dizzy/nauseous feeling with slight headaches is this normal will it go away? Thanks for any help.

  2. #2
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Actually your original protocol was horrible. Your doc was giving you 200 mgs every two weeks. That's basically the terminal life of test, not it's half life. It put you on a hormonal roller coaster. Meaning a high peak for the first couple days then a slow drop to horrible levels at the end of two weeks. Not good. Shows zero knowledge of hormones by that doctor. Look at this graph as to what happens after injection:



    So now you're on 150 mgs of test once per week. Fine, yes. Optimal, not really but it works for many. The same graph above still applies so you can see the benefit of moving to once per week injections! The reason he's giving you hcg one day before injection is to bump up your test levels which are falling. Optimally it should be done on both one day and two days before injection. But this doc is head and shoulders above your first one at least.

    Ideally, assuming you self-inject, you could split the dose to 75 mgs (not ml's) x 2 per week which would provide you with the same amount of test but with much steadier T levels. Blood work may show that you could then even reduce your dose as well. More frequent, smaller injections normally tend to require less testosterone to achieve solid levels and also mitigate the need for ancillaries. Your HCG would then be injected at 250 iu's on the same days you do your test shots, for example Monday and Thursday.

    Two weeks is not enough time to really evaluate a new protocol. Try and get blood work after 4 weeks (total) and be sure to test for all the normal items. Include a Sensitive E2 Assay.

    Dizzy-nauseus is not necessarily related to testosterone. To early to make that judgement. Hopefully that subsides.

    Welcome to the forum!
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  3. #3
    Youthful55guy is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadetrt View Post
    So I have been on trt for about 5 years I took 1 ml every 2 weeks and for a while that worked I felt fine but about a year into to it I started not to feel not so great. I tried to work with my crappy Dr. But he just kept ignoring me btw in the 5 years I was with him I had 2 blood tests done. My test at first was 287 the next test (2years later) my levels where at 367 so I finally went to a male clinic and got some help he put me in .75 MLS test cup every Sunday and 50 units hcg every Saturday. Will my test levels keep going up with time or will they just shoot up right away. I do feel a little better but not great I have been on this new regimen for 2 weeks I got new blood work before I started it was 389 test and I think 14 estrogen. Does all this sound ok? Or is .75 not enough a week? Is 50 units to much? Also I keep getting like a dizzy/nauseous feeling with slight headaches is this normal will it go away? Thanks for any help.
    I suggest you start by reading this post I wrote on Best Practices in TRT. I am an advocate of frequent dosing of small amounts. You need to break that weekly dose up into smaller injections at least 2X per week and consider dropping it down a bit more. Here's the link: https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...rting-trt.html

  4. #4
    Youthful55guy is offline Senior Member
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    Kel, we got to get your graphs updated! Here's a great link for generating these Graphs: SteroidGraph - Graph your cycle

    So, here's to answering the OP's questions with some graphs. Keep in mind that these graphs plot the theoretical release of molecular T (no ester) into your system based on published half life data. By comparison, the average male produces about 7 mg of T per day.


    Here's what your T profiles looked like on your stone age 200 mg every 2 week protocol:
    Opinions/help trt-200-mg-t-cyp-every-2-weeks.png

    Here's what your T profiles look like on your still old school once per week 150 mg protocol:
    Opinions/help trt-150-mg-t-cyp-every-1-week.png

    Here's what your T profile would look like if you broke that same 150 mg protocol into every 3 day (E3D) dosing:
    Opinions/help trt-64.3-mg-t-cyp-e3d.png

    Here's a better protocol that I recommend as a starting point for most guys. Dropping your T dose down to about 117 mg per week split up into E3D dosing of 50 mg.
    Opinions/help trt-50-mg-t-cyp-every-3-days.png
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  5. #5
    Wadetrt is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the warm welcome and yeah my original Dr. Was a urologist and not a very good one he had no clue what he was doing if I had any questions he would just say whatever you read on the internet is prolly right, I'm sure you can see how confusing that is. Thank you for showing me the graph it makes understanding so much easier when you can see it. I'm scheduled for another blood draw in 3 weeks it covers a lot but I'll look in to and see what all it tests for.

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    Wadetrt is offline New Member
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    I read it and let me see if I understand it correctly cuz I don't really understand the terminology. So on the injecting part are you saying I can use a insulin syringe to inject test cyp in to my quad and that will work? I do self inject and I just change glutes every week. It would be so much easier if I could use a insulin syringe and put it in my quads. Is that right or did I misunderstand?

  7. #7
    Wadetrt is offline New Member
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    Wow thanks for showing me that makes it so much simpler to understand that way. Why dont Drs use this type of explanation. I would love to do every 3 day but I have a couple concerns 1 is I dont have enough needles for that my dr only gives me what I need he gives me the insulin syringe for the hcg I take that in the stomach he gives me 22 G for the glutes so if I did it every 3 days I would run out of needles fast if I ask for more needles he might think I don't trust him or I'm trying to abuse them or something. 2 wont that cause a lot of scar tissue especially in my stomach area unless there is somewhere else I can inject? Do insulin syringe even cause scar tissue?

  8. #8
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    Kel, we got to get your graphs updated! Here's a great link for generating these Graphs: SteroidGraph - Graph your cycle

    Ha, yes. Been on that site before it was popular but can't seem to copy from it.
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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadetrt View Post
    Was a urologist and not a very good one he had no clue what he was doing if I had any questions he would just say whatever you read on the internet is prolly right,
    Wow. Just wow.

    Re purchasing syringes. You can get them on line most anywhere. Just google it. Determine what gauge and length you want. Injecting SQ with an insulin syringe (into fat pads) is fine and proven by studies. Injecting into muscle requires a bit more length depending on the volume injected. The minimum I like to use for IM injections is 1/2 inch. With this length, depending on lean you are the injection may be all IM or part IM and SQ. It doesn't matter as long as it absorbs, which it will.
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    Youthful55guy is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadetrt View Post
    I read it and let me see if I understand it correctly cuz I don't really understand the terminology. So on the injecting part are you saying I can use a insulin syringe to inject test cyp in to my quad and that will work? I do self inject and I just change glutes every week. It would be so much easier if I could use a insulin syringe and put it in my quads. Is that right or did I misunderstand?
    Yes, that is correct with a couple of caveats.

    It's a thick oil based substance, so insulin syringes (25G to 30G) will only work for the small amounts you draw up with frequent injection profiles. I use a 28G syringe with a 1/2 inch needle and I find this works just fine for the 0.2 to 0.25 mL T-cyp I inject E3D. It takes me about 1 minute to draw up and about 10 seconds to inject. If you find that too long or too difficult, you can migrate to a 25G syringe and that will take about 15 seconds to draw up. I much prefer the comfort of the smaller 28G needle. I've also tried a 30G needle and that takes considerably longer, but you can make it work.


    Yes, upper/out quads. Alternate left and right. Ignore comments/opinions from people that tell you it has to go deep into the muscle with a longer needle. That advice is so old school. There are recent and numerous publications that show that the depth (IM vs SC) does not affect absorption at all and that it patient preference should drive the decision. Please see the diagram in the Best Practices thread for the exact location on the quad to inject. This area avoids both major nerves and blood vessels. Also, there is NO NEED to aspirate . This is again old school advice from docs that have you inject huge amounts infrequently deep into the muscle with harpoons.

  11. #11
    Youthful55guy is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadetrt View Post
    Wow thanks for showing me that makes it so much simpler to understand that way. Why dont Drs use this type of explanation. I would love to do every 3 day but I have a couple concerns 1 is I dont have enough needles for that my dr only gives me what I need he gives me the insulin syringe for the hcg I take that in the stomach he gives me 22 G for the glutes so if I did it every 3 days I would run out of needles fast if I ask for more needles he might think I don't trust him or I'm trying to abuse them or something. 2 wont that cause a lot of scar tissue especially in my stomach area unless there is somewhere else I can inject? Do insulin syringe even cause scar tissue?
    In most (all???) states, you can buy your insulin syringes very inexpensively from numerous suppliers and have them delivered directly to your home without a prescription. Diabetics have been doing this for years. My preferred supplier is Total Diabetes Supply.com: https://www.totaldiabetessupply.com/...g-1cc-1-2-inch

    I use 30G for HCG SC in the stomach fat. No, there is no scaring. I've been doing this for about 6 years. A 30G needle is about the size of a mosquito bite. Same goes for T in the Quad with a 28G needle. I have tried T SC in the stomach (it's a new trend), but I always seem to get bruising, so I've migrated back to the quad.

  12. #12
    Youthful55guy is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Ha, yes. Been on that site before it was popular but can't seem to copy from it.
    I use the screen Snipping Tool built into Windows computers. Very easy to use.

  13. #13
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I use the screen Snipping Tool built into Windows computers. Very easy to use.

    Hmm. Will look at that. Thanks!

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    HoldMyBeer is offline Productive Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Wow. Just wow.

    Re purchasing syringes. You can get them on line most anywhere. Just google it. Determine what gauge and length you want. Injecting SQ with an insulin syringe (into fat pads) is fine and proven by studies. Injecting into muscle requires a bit more length depending on the volume injected. The minimum I like to use for IM injections is 1/2 inch. With this length, depending on lean you are the injection may be all IM or part IM and SQ. It doesn't matter as long as it absorbs, which it will.
    If you live in the states, most states they are legal, just walk into a pharmacy and ask for 25 gauge 1 inch for your prescribed test. If you are on TrT you should have a script anyways. If insurance wont pay for them, they are a dollar a piece. No need to use insulin pins unless you want to
    Last edited by HoldMyBeer; 08-01-2018 at 10:26 AM.

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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    If you live in the states, most states they are legal, just walk into a pharmacy and ask for 25 gauge 1 inch for your prescribed test. If you are on TrT you should have a script anyways. If insurance wont pay for them, they are a dollar a piece. No need to use insulin pins unless you want to

    Dollar a piece is getting severely ripped off HMB!
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    HoldMyBeer is offline Productive Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Dollar a piece is getting severely ripped off HMB!
    Cant argue w that. But if you are only pinning twice a week, 8 dollars a month may be worth the convenience.

  17. #17
    Wadetrt is offline New Member
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    I'm going to try the every 3 day with the insulin syringes I really truly appreciate all the help from everyone it's a load of my mind. to know that their are ppl that have been through all this and have experience and are helping is amazing. If I have any questions with dosing or trouble I'll be sure to ask you all thanks again for all the help.

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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Stick around Wade. You can learn something new here every day.
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  19. #19
    Youthful55guy is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    If you live in the states, most states they are legal, just walk into a pharmacy and ask for 25 gauge 1 inch for your prescribed test. If you are on TrT you should have a script anyways. If insurance wont pay for them, they are a dollar a piece. No need to use insulin pins unless you want to
    Again, you do not need anything longer than a 1/2 inch insulin syringe. I strongly recommend the one-piece 25G-28G system. You can get them delivered to your door for about $0.15 each (box of 100), even less if you buy in larger orders.

  20. #20
    HoldMyBeer is offline Productive Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Dollar a piece is getting severely ripped off HMB!
    Found a website where it was 100 for 27$ and another 7 cents for the larger gauge to draw (had to buy 1000 of those though)
    you werent kidding about it being a rip off

  21. #21
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    You can also see if you have a needle exchange program in your area. This would provide you free needles + syringes. Also a box of 100 alcohol wipes should only cost you $2-3

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